320 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyne]

Eh I don't care one way or another to be honest, it's a fictional universe with elves and dwarves, it doesn't have to reflect real world human diversity. Although I loved the character of Samantha in me3. More characters like her would be great!

[Dirgegun]

Isabela would like to have a word with you.

As would my Hawke.

And my Warden Amell.

That's probably been said and I haven't read all the pages, but I wanted to contribute anyway. It's not much of a contribution, but here I am.

In all seriousness, though, I rather like the ideas that those native to Rivain and possibly the Fog Warriors are black.

Modifié par Dirgegun, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:59 .

[AlexanderCousland]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Eh, I'm not sure I can agree with Gaider. Me, personally? I don't really care about the ethnicity of characters in games. I'd be fine if they were white, black, asian or purple - so long as it made sense. I'd be totally fine if someone actually made a fantasy game made out of - say - an amalgamation of actual, real African folklore and actually ran with it. It'd be very interesting and actually UNIQUE and I wouldn't have a problem if everybody in that entire game was black or I was forced to make a black PC. You don't really hear anyone complain that JRPGs are loaded with asian people and how they wish there were more white people.

It's perfectly reasonable to state that no one had to argue for White People to be included in Major Media either. 

And this is a Topic of Relevance in the gaming Industry, check out the Link, Mr. Gaider is a Panel Member.

Race Bending :

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_detailpage

[nightscrawl]

Vandicus wrote...

Well, speaking from the PoV of a person of mixed descent(at least in the sense of modern ethnicities, ignoring the fact that many older ethnic groups are now merged together into these much broader categories), I suppose I'm a full on example of a person whose "race" is not really represented much either in video gaming (half-"insert non-human race here" exists, but I don't think that can be considered a legitimate replacement any more than elf for Asians, or dwarves for Hispanics). I can honestly say I've never been bothered by it, or by race in general and it simply doesn't occur to me to question whether the absence of explicitly mixed-race characters is somehow racist.

While I too would like to see more color diversity in the games, I think the distinction should be made between humans of various colors being distinct simply because they are human, no matter their color, versus elves, dwarves, and qunari (David apparently doesn't like people freely using "kossith"). To put it another way, humans might not care about colors among themselves because they as a whole race have others to dislike in elves, dwarves, and qunari. An "us versus them" mentality, if you will.

In Thedas it could very well be the case that people from Ferelden, Orlais, Rivain, and Antiva just view themselves all as human only, minor cultural differences aside, whereas elves and dwarves would be the "other."

This is something that is unique to the fantasy and sci-fi genre because only in those universes will you find intelligent humanoid beings who are a race (or species) apart from humans.


I get the feeling I have not explained this very well, although I tried three different methods.... lol.

[AlexanderCousland]

Cyne wrote...

Eh I don't care one way or another to be honest, it's a fictional universe with elves and dwarves, it doesn't have to reflect real world human diversity. Although I loved the character of Samantha in me3. More characters like her would be great!

Agreed. It doesnt have to reflect real world human diversity. However, does this mean that it shouldn't?
Considering that the Gaming Population is diverse in itself, I think it's perfectly reasonable for people who play the games and buy the media to ask for more representation for themselves.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Racial distinction in RL humans is more than just skin colour, and far more than just black/white.

I'd like to see a wide variety of facial features too. A brown skinned person in DA with Caucasian features looks Indian, not African.

Also how about Native American, East Asian etc looks?

[Dirgegun]

Shinian2 wrote...

Racial distinction in RL humans is more than just skin colour, and far more than just black/white.

I'd like to see a wide variety of facial features too. A brown skinned person in DA with Caucasian features looks Indian, not African.

Also how about Native American, East Asian etc looks?

I made my Shepard Native American!

...Or at least as Native American as I could manage with the CC.

/somewhat off topic, very unhelpful

Modifié par Dirgegun, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:24 .

[Leoroc]

I would hope though that African-esque/Amerindian-esque/Asian-esque skin tones will be attached to specific cultures/places rather than simply mixed in with existing ones.

[AlexanderCousland]

Leoroc wrote...

I would hope though that African-esque/Amerindian-esque/Asian-esque skin tones will be attached to specific cultures/places rather than simply mixed in with existing ones.

Dont understand what you mean, considering the first warden you met was Rivani (Black) so In essence they already are "mixed" in just like Isabela was "mixed' in with Hawke and Alistair, they deserve more character models, an Asain Templar, a Latin Mage etc. they dont deserve to be excluded from the game, and you shouldnt have to visit another country to see them. In my own humble opinion, of course.

[Cyne]

FreshIstay wrote...

Cyne wrote...

Eh I don't care one way or another to be honest, it's a fictional universe with elves and dwarves, it doesn't have to reflect real world human diversity. Although I loved the character of Samantha in me3. More characters like her would be great!

Agreed. It doesnt have to reflect real world human diversity. However, does this mean that it shouldn't?
Considering that the Gaming Population is diverse in itself, I think it's perfectly reasonable for people who play the games and buy the media to ask for more representation for themselves.

Considering bioware have traditionally offered a lot of choice in this regard, I think it's a fair request. But really, it should be left to the developers' discretion. Some games don't need it, like the witcher 2. Besides, it's not much of a choice in the context of the fictional universe, it's just an aesthetic choice for the players. The game would play out exactly the same if the protagaonist was white or black or asian. I'd prefer instead if they gave choices that were relevent to the fictonal game world, and would actually change how the game plays out, like being able to play as a dwarf or elf. That would make more sense than being able to play as a different race of human.

[Sylvianus]

David Gaider wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
And frankly I think if people are looking for evidence of real life  ethnic groups in a fantasy game I think they're the ones with the problem.

I don't think that's exactly fair.

What if the shoe was on the other foot, and a game you really liked was populated by nothing but black characters? You might be upset, or you might say "it's great that exists, but it's really not for me." And that'd be fine, as it would be a pretty unique game. But what if all such games had all-black casts, always? You don't think you would find yourself feeling thoughtlessly excluded and rendered invisible for no good reason? If your answer is no, I'd venture to say it's probably because you've never found yourself in that position.

It's perfectly reasonable for players to ask for more black characters in a world that has black people in it... if not for the sake of diversity alone, how about using the color palette we've chosen for ourselves? I, for one, look forward to being able to use the new engine to render a wider array of skin tones. I previously said that greater variety in races is something we would do where it's appropriate... and there are places where it's appropriate. So it'd be nice to go to some of them. "Human", after all, is a race that doesn't only come in one flavor.

Well said ! * applause *

Now, I hope to see more black people where it's appropriate.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:33 .

[Huntress]

ziloe wrote...

I've found it odd in that most RPGs I've played, there's rarely an interesting black character. I know a lot of people weren't crazy about Jacob, but at least he proved that in the future, black people still existed. Even if this character came from an entirely different nation and culture, it's something I'd like to see added to the DA franchise, and not just as some dude you talk to once, but as a full on awesome party member. 

((Discuss))

Are you trying to say Bioware is not adding dark colour chracter to their games? thats a lie.

DAO meeting Alistair you see a dark colour mage, when you hit lothering you meet -7-10 dark colour characters, da2, dark colour dwarf, dark colour bandits everywere, Me1 dark colour man when you hit the embassy, Shepard best friend and superior is dark colour, engineer Addam's is dark colour, should I keep going? And on top of that the main Character can be dark colour in you're game... I dont have a clue of what you are talking about ME2 having just jacob..

Modifié par Huntress, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:35 .

[Joy Divison]

Somewhere in Edison, New Jersey there is a kid descended from parents originally from the Indian subcontinent who is saying, "Hey, at least the blacks got Jacob!"

[David Gaider]

Vandicus wrote...
Well, speaking from the PoV of a person of mixed descent(at least in the sense of modern ethnicities, ignoring the fact that many older ethnic groups are now merged together into these much broader categories), I suppose I'm a full on example of a person whose "race" is not really represented much either in video gaming(half-"insert non-human race here" exists, but I don't think that can be considered a legitimate replacement any more than elf for Asians, or dwarves for Hispanics). I can honestly say I've never been bothered by it, or by race in general and it simply doesn't occur to me to question whether the absence of explicitly mixed-race characters is somehow racist. I would also observe that Asians, Hispanics, and Native Americans are represented even less frequently than Blacks in quite a few gaming genres from my personal experience. People don't often seem to request additional characters of those races. Not saying that there's anything wrong with such requests, just stating my observations.

Completely fair. I'm not saying you *should* feel that way, but obviously some do... and it'd be pretty presumptuous of someone who's already part of a group that is well-represented to say they shouldn't. In this particular case, a culture which is predominantly black is already part of Thedas... so it's hardly beyond the pale to ask that we see more representatives of that culture, or that they be slightly more conspicuous than "tan" (which, as we've said, was a limitation of the engine).

With regards to Asians or other ethnicities, those can be a little harder to justify if they aren't represented by a culture on the Thedas continent... but that certainly shouldn't prevent lone travelers from faraway lands from appearing, or even a follower (especially a follower, perhaps, as they get to be all sorts of special snowflakes). That could be kind of cool, and certainly there's no harm in the asking.

[GloriousDame]

David Gaider wrote...
With regards to Asians or other ethnicities, those can be a little harder to justify if they aren't represented by a culture on the Thedas continent... but that certainly shouldn't prevent lone travelers from faraway lands from appearing, or even a follower (especially a follower, perhaps, as they get to be all sorts of special snowflakes). That could be kind of cool, and certainly there's no harm in the asking.

Would a latin-esque snowflake be too much to ask? :innocent: It's always nice being able to connect with a game even more.

I remember my first playthrough in Origins, I chose to be a human noble warrior with darker, olive skin and dark hair, etc... Seeing my Cousland's parents and sibling look nothing like me felt a bit weird, but I understood well-enough that these were preset characters. No biggie. Later on though, when I started looking into modding, I found a mod that made the PC look like the Cousland family (blonde hair, fair skin, blue eyes, etc) and I always found this interesting, to say the least.  I was, of course, pleasantly surprised to see that my family could actually look like my PC.  Of course circumstances will be different in DA3, but I'm looking forward to the advances you guys make in terms of possibly representing more ethnicities.

Modifié par ArinTheirinCousland, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:48 .

[Bfler]

David Gaider wrote...


With regards to Asians or other ethnicities, those can be a little harder to justify if they aren't represented by a culture on the Thedas continent... but that certainly shouldn't prevent lone travelers from faraway lands from appearing, or even a follower (especially a follower, perhaps, as they get to be all sorts of special snowflakes). That could be kind of cool, and certainly there's no harm in the asking.

Don't Qunari have cannons? Some asian like travellers could have brought them the technology (f.e. gunpowder).

Modifié par Bfler, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:51 .

[hoorayforicecream]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
With regards to Asians or other ethnicities, those can be a little harder to justify if they aren't represented by a culture on the Thedas continent... but that certainly shouldn't prevent lone travelers from faraway lands from appearing, or even a follower (especially a follower, perhaps, as they get to be all sorts of special snowflakes). That could be kind of cool, and certainly there's no harm in the asking.

Would a latin-esque snowflake be too much to ask? :innocent: It's always nice being able to connect with a game even more.

I remember my first playthrough in Origins, I chose to be a human noble warrior with darker, olive skin and dark hair, etc... Seeing my Cousland's parents and sibling look nothing like me felt a bit weird, but I understood well-enough that these were preset characters. No biggie. Later on though, when I started looking into modding, I found a mod that made the PC look like the Cousland family (blonde hair, fair skin, blue eyes, etc) and I always found this interesting, to say the least.  I was, of course, pleasantly surprised to see that my family could actually look like my PC.  Of course circumstances will be different in DA3, but I'm looking forward to the advances you guys make in terms of possibly representing more ethnicities.

This is actually one of the things I liked a lot about DA2, though I wish they had been a bit more overt about telling the player how it worked. If you selected a different preset (even if you subsequently changed the look) for Hawke, you'd get different visuals on how Bethany, Carver, and Leandra looked as well. I thought it really helped sell the 'family' aspect of it.

[Sharn01]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
With regards to Asians or other ethnicities, those can be a little harder to justify if they aren't represented by a culture on the Thedas continent... but that certainly shouldn't prevent lone travelers from faraway lands from appearing, or even a follower (especially a follower, perhaps, as they get to be all sorts of special snowflakes). That could be kind of cool, and certainly there's no harm in the asking.

Would a latin-esque snowflake be too much to ask? :innocent: It's always nice being able to connect with a game even more.

I remember my first playthrough in Origins, I chose to be a human noble warrior with darker, olive skin and dark hair, etc... Seeing my Cousland's parents and sibling look nothing like me felt a bit weird, but I understood well-enough that these were preset characters. No biggie. Later on though, when I started looking into modding, I found a mod that made the PC look like the Cousland family (blonde hair, fair skin, blue eyes, etc) and I always found this interesting, to say the least.  I was, of course, pleasantly surprised to see that my family could actually look like my PC.  Of course circumstances will be different in DA3, but I'm looking forward to the advances you guys make in terms of possibly representing more ethnicities.

I think making a representation of latino's would be the most difficult for writer's to do in a world that is not earth.  There is no single representation that will work, as some latino's are very dark and indistinguishable from black's, and other's fall on the other end of the spectum with white's, as well as everything that is in between.  It's the youngest race on earth because it's a mix of three different races and cultures that intermingled freely for centuries in different propotions based on their numbers in the area's that they where living in. 

I am not saying it couldn't be done by any means, the best way to do it would be to have an area located between several locations where humans of different ethnicities intermingled a lot, but it is a lot of work.

Modifié par Sharn01, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:30 .

[Scott Sion]

FreshIstay wrote...

plnero wrote...

https://encrypted-tb...42ZDFZaZKwba7tQ

I agree, we need more Black characters.

You with a Full working mind, acutally thought out this post, found a link to a picture then proceeded to click the submit button with a intention of being either funny or sarcastic.

People are asking for the Inclusion of other skin tones...Not just black.  
(and those are African People not Black)

No, I saved the picture from a while back.  African people are black. There already are other skin tones, if black isn't the objective here you're wasting time.

Modifié par plnero, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:48 .

[ziloe]

Pauravi wrote...

ziloe wrote...

I've found it odd in that most RPGs I've played, there's rarely an interesting black character. I know a lot of people weren't crazy about Jacob, but at least he proved that in the future, black people still existed.

Of the black characters in ME you choose Jacob as your representative?
Anderson was there from the very beginning, and he is a complete and total bad****.

Indeed, however I've said this before, and I'll say it again here too. Anderson wasn't a playable part of the player's team, like Jacob, and thus that's why Jacob is my example. 

[Massa FX]

Black, brown, yellow... why not? Add in some human cultural diversity and make no apologies for it. But don't go the stereotype route... that will only cause controversy and negativity amongst your audience.

[ziloe]

FreshIstay wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Eh, I'm not sure I can agree with Gaider. Me, personally? I don't really care about the ethnicity of characters in games. I'd be fine if they were white, black, asian or purple - so long as it made sense. I'd be totally fine if someone actually made a fantasy game made out of - say - an amalgamation of actual, real African folklore and actually ran with it. It'd be very interesting and actually UNIQUE and I wouldn't have a problem if everybody in that entire game was black or I was forced to make a black PC. You don't really hear anyone complain that JRPGs are loaded with asian people and how they wish there were more white people.

It's perfectly reasonable to state that no one had to argue for White People to be included in Major Media either. 

And this is a Topic of Relevance in the gaming Industry, check out the Link, Mr. Gaider is a Panel Member.

Race Bending :

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_detailpage

Thank you for posting this. Really enjoying the vid.

[Palipride47]

FreshIstay wrote...

Cyne wrote...

Eh I don't care one way or another to be honest, it's a fictional universe with elves and dwarves, it doesn't have to reflect real world human diversity. Although I loved the character of Samantha in me3. More characters like her would be great!

Agreed. It doesnt have to reflect real world human diversity. However, does this mean that it shouldn't?
Considering that the Gaming Population is diverse in itself, I think it's perfectly reasonable for people who play the games and buy the media to ask for more representation for themselves.

Black is the easiest thing to state as a "stand-in" for "I want more diversity" but I do want a range of colors and "looks."

It is only hard to include Blacks, Asians, Latinos, Native Americans, etc because the fantasy trope has been effectively crystallized to refer to Medieval Europe as the "default".  We have DnD Forgotten Realm stuff, and the lore of Elder Scrolls has some non Europe lore, but you still have Nords. 
And we know there are no non-people in Europe. Never have been, never will be.   

Rojahar wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

What about Asian or Latin gamers shouldn't they get representation too?The world isn't just split between whites and blacks and it's not the people who want to see more characters that look like them that  I have an issue with that's understandable it's the people who make it an issue about race that irritate me. 

I'm sure he was just using black and white for the sake of the examples. Overall, I think his point is that more diverse representation is their desire.

I was, and I think the people who are arguing for more "diversity" mean everyone as well. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 24 octobre 2012 - 06:14 .

[Nashimura]

I did not know there was a "culture which is predominantly black" in Dragon Age, which is it?

[Palipride47]

Nashimura wrote...

I did not know there was a "culture which is predominantly black" in Dragon Age, which is it?

The consensus is that the Rivaini are the "dark skinned" people of Andrastian Thedas. Dark Skinned vs. Black is a WHOLE OTHER DEBATE. 

Also, the Thedosian landscape turns more "jungle-like" as you go North, so is it kind of being assumed you'll find "black people" farther north (even though "black" is a social construct in itself)