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Anyone else mad at Duncan? (SPOILERS)


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#101
Guest_Tassiaw_*

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Reader81 wrote...

Ah, I wonder if that's wise, if generals keeping doing conrcipting military force and there is many who don't want join military force, but if one are not willing to joing, and commander who would shot one who not willing to join or order those who do not want join military force in first place shot unwilling turn thier back on commander and shot commander? Unless they try to set a law they are not allow to talk how they join miliary? I find hard to believe if commander do force many who are unwilling join force and stay power unless it's good cause in their head. Would they won't turn on their on commander? I guess in this game, it's won't allow me turn back on duncan or kill duncan on his back if I'm playing noble before he die in battle since we seem walk alone and he has no bodyguard.


Coverups are easy to do. I'm sure Jory was "killed in combat" rather than killed for cowardice, officially.

As for killing Duncan, he was commander of the Ferelden Grey Wardens for a reason. Your PC would never have been able to get the drop on him.

#102
tallon1982

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Notice the lack of bodies when you wake up ;)

#103
Reader81

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Tassiaw wrote...

Reader81 wrote...

Ah, I wonder if that's wise, if generals keeping doing conrcipting military force and there is many who don't want join military force, but if one are not willing to joing, and commander who would shot one who not willing to join or order those who do not want join military force in first place shot unwilling turn thier back on commander and shot commander? Unless they try to set a law they are not allow to talk how they join miliary? I find hard to believe if commander do force many who are unwilling join force and stay power unless it's good cause in their head. Would they won't turn on their on commander? I guess in this game, it's won't allow me turn back on duncan or kill duncan on his back if I'm playing noble before he die in battle since we seem walk alone and he has no bodyguard.


Coverups are easy to do. I'm sure Jory was "killed in combat" rather than killed for cowardice, officially.

As for killing Duncan, he was commander of the Ferelden Grey Wardens for a reason. Your PC would never have been able to get the drop on him.

Why? Duncan is human, whatever commander or not, as far I see he don't has a bodyguard or army with him, it's just him and me and he need to sleep. :devil: Of course I could drop on him after force me in noble story, that is. 
Mage story, no reason to kill duncan since he more like not force mage since mage want to get out of those tower and left to whatever mage able reseach without temple watch you, but untill drink blood, mage may do not like it, he more like forced to study how to cure himself from blood after but without gray warden know and watch him.

#104
Sidney

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By and large the whole Grey Warden thing isn't gonna draw a lot of willing recruits. Let's see:



1. Hazing rituals that are both potentially fatal and stupid (new recruits trying to find your oh so important treaties.....and BTW why haven't you clowns recovered these things before)

2. Potentially and more likely probably fatal joining rituals

3. No family

4. Death at a young age

5. In case of Blight, you are toast



Duncan is a jerk and if the Darkspawn didn't kill him I'd want my character to take a shot at him.


#105
infernoASH

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Jory deserved what he got he was acting like a coward



Anyways Duncan is awesome and the best mentor

#106
Sidney

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infernoASH wrote...

Jory deserved what he got he was acting like a coward

Anyways Duncan is awesome and the best mentor


His one known charge is Allistair so I'm not sure his mentoring is going so well.

#107
Darkened Dragon

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Sidney wrote...

His one known charge is Allistair so I'm not sure his mentoring is going so well.


Actually, since he is head of the wardens in Fereldon, they all are practically his charges. You just don't get to interact with them. Not to mention that Alistair is still fairly new only being a warden for 6 months.  There are some more traits about why Alistair is trained how he is .. but thats mainly found out through conversation with Alistair later.

#108
j_j_m

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It would be pointless to be mad at Duncan. It's like blaming a gun for a murder. It's a Grey Warden policy, and I assume they have held their standards for many centuries.

#109
Kimarous

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@Reader81



From what I gather, you are rejecting the notion of "good" because it's really a matter of "the lesser of two evils". Neither outcome is explicitly "good", but one can definately be construed as "less evil" than the other. By inversing said view ("less evil"), said view could be construed as "greater good".

#110
Reader81

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                                            If a two lesser of evil, it's only lead to two greater lesser of evil, nothing more, unless like this young seed are good, but it's could happan corrupting good into evil easy, but can evil changed back to good, No, it's can't be done. Thought good can become evil, but evil become good? No, why, no one has that's kind of power.  :crying:

                                              :police:   Let's said City of Peace, but goverment of city of peace is not happy, want more money, or want to test something fun or danger on other city than their city of peace , let's just said Goverment failed to deny themself, and gave in to evil sure as selfish, desire wrongly, lust after other city of that''s not their, so they are stealing or test on that's other city, goverment corrupting themself even City of peace unaware of it or know but powerless to stop goverment so they were leave, but most might unaware of it.:unsure:

Now after stealing, or forceing or test something make other city suffer, now other city are suffer and they want a justice and in name of greater of good so other city want paid back to city of peace so they might bomb them, so they might steal their plane and set nuclear in plane and fly to city of peace, but city of peace don't know why other city attack them, but think they are evil so they shoot a plane and want a justice and in name of greater of good, they send their army to attack other city, since they are cause other other harm in name of greater good (evil, it's) :o

                                                :pinched:   So you see where it's go, it's corrupting everything,

so like a little oil drop in pure water of gallon, would anyone drink little oil in gallon of water, only they are not aware of it, but it's seem can't be clean water since oil stuck in that water, how you remove it? It's can't be done by doing good and right, So when you cause other harm, it's just still evil, no matter what!<_<

                                         If bad guy enter house and steal a thing then house owner shoot bad guys without mercy, in end they both evil, bad guys enter house or owner shoot bad guy, why bad guys enter house and steal, maybe company are greed and fire or lay him off, and he just need to live, company are evil as well.

                                    Only way to stay good in order is greater good, is like a bad guy enter house, but owner gave bad guys freely item to bad guys even more than bad guys, unless bad guys want owner life, then owner has to flee from evil or gave his life up to stay good in greater good, but how many people do this? :(

                                                                 Rare, of course. Most people fight to keep their hard earn money and shoot, so they are remain in evil, no matter what, think shoot other evil in greater of "Good" is like put more oil in a water.

:wizard:
                  At least this is what I had learn from bible and The Scriptures and it's dose make sence to me. Only person who has a right to justice on evil is creater or makers like יהוה since creater or a maker are like designer or creator  program a game, when designer or creator program set a program, and saw everything good, but something is happan a bug appear out of nowhere, then it's start corrupting file, then silly file has freewill, and may taken over designer or creator's job of justice so infected file attack file nearly by and start corrupting other file in name of greater good, bug mock at them and laught at file. This surely angry designer or creator because it's his program to create and bug are in a way, so designer and creater going to find bug and kill it with no mercy or fixed it with mercy, then going to kill any infected file because file are virse and infected that has been a doing a infectious, corrupting influence, diseases on other file in greater of good. So once creator remove or fixed bug and creator will whatever kill, remove infected file with no mercy or fixed and clean file with his grace. Like a story, ^_^?Yes?:PNo?:huh:....:mellow:still:crying:....don't get it?:( Oh well, at least that's what I has learned in my life time at a time now:D Taken or leave it. :police:

So there is saying every man in his eye are right but in end a death.:( oh well:innocent: What am I said humankind are :alien: to "good" while :wub: to "evil" yes? Humankind are like thinking evil are good and good are evil, real good are so alien to humankind while humankind make themself home in evil of den. though some are try to get out of evil of den but couldn't because they has no power unless lay down life and gave evil a freely, that's is hard. 

So people cause harm or kill in greater of good is just  a coward because they want to feel good and they force in their mind doing evil now and later they said it's will be greater good, yes rightttttttt.:sick:

Guys steal money from familly house and yell it's greater of good for war. ect (real reason, it's make life easy for guy who stole it but harder for family). while family has no way of money to paid bill and they die of has no food or kick out of house they might die or suffer or family changed good to evil because guy stole money for greater good.

Black Gang wait and then beat up white police (this police may don't care color, may do what is right) in name of greater good so they thinking white police will repect them, but if white police alive, he may changed to don't care of color to hater of black people, or if he die then whole commany will be safe less since police care what is right in first place and black gang only make bad police much easier, or police's family suffer without support and alone, because black gang do it in greater of good.

Lonely guys waiting on woman and grab her from bar or somewhere and rape her in greater of good in his own eye because it's make him feel good while women are not, then later on woman care for baby and suffer, and baby suffer because mommy work hard all day long and feel alone while mommy suffer working, working, ect because guy who rape woman in greater of good in his own eye. 

so do I need to said on?
No matter what, we are doing of evil and keep doing it, and yet we do said in name of greater of good yet it's still evil in end. What is greater of good is that in the end? It's go on and on, people paid evil or doing evil to do something greater of good (evil) back and forward, over and over. I mean don't seem silly to you when you cause other a harm in greater good like shoot a plane but people who in plane's family or friend might want kill people who shoot plane in greater of good, then police try to shoot people who shoot people  in name of greater of good but in end it's truthful if doing evil now, it's only lead to greater of evil, not good. Unless something has to stop right there (Creator?)

#111
Sabriana

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Jory was never GW material in the first place and shouldn't have even been considered. It's not metagaming, because on my first play-through, which was totally unspoiled, I kept thinking "What? This one is considered Grey Warden material? When Duncan just told me that it's so very hard to find good recruits? Jory? No way!"

I mean, he couldn't even come close to being compared to Daveth. Whose death I'm still bitter about, by the way. I so wish he could have become one of the rogues, but I guess it was necessary for story-telling reasons. Jory was whining and blubbering all through, the only place he stands out is when Daveth whines about being stuck into a pot, and his answer is "If it's warmer than this forest, it's an improvement."

Other than that, he was all blubber, whining,complaining, and going on and on about honor, glory, and how he just up and left a very pregnant wife in Highever, and how he would return to his family. He knew nothing but what he conjured up in his own head.

Still, it was wrong to kill him. Let him leave, one person spreading stories about he GWs is not going to hurt them, especially if people were told that he failed the entry test. That alone would possibly wipe out all his integrity and believability. Sour grapes, you know.

Aside from that, due to the conscription and the way my noble was more or less forced into the GW, I can't believe that those who were/are forced into the GWs entirely against their will and morality will all hold their tongues. Miraculously. No one talks, even if they hate being a GW with all their heart and might. Yeah. Right.

Modifié par Sabriana, 01 janvier 2010 - 12:06 .


#112
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ok I don't want to argue too much, because I still can't understand what you are saying.

I agree there is no "good" that we know of for certain. That means there is no "evil" that we know of for certain. If you think cruelty is evil (as you demonstrated when you qualified Duncan's action as evil), then the opposite of cruelty, which is mercy is good.
I personally don't think that cruelty is always "evil". And I don't think mercy is always "good".
And I do not consider shooting down the plane to be an evil act at all. Whether I was on the plane, or living in the targeted city or even living far away. And I wouldn't think the action was evil even if my relatives were on the plane, as the passengers are going to die either way.

Let's just say we have different conceptions of morality and leave it at that.



QFT. Bingo. Ding ding ding. Jackpot. 

Good and evil, in the real world, there are no absolutes. An action that would normally be considered evil by many can end up resulting in doing far more good than realized. And a "good" act can turn out damning many innocent people.

#113
Few87

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Duncan is an awfull evil person. He kills jory for no real reason at all, he could have just let him go back to his family and he conscripts people into his own private little army against their wishes. Hes probably the cruelest most corrupt character in the game.