109 réponses à ce sujet

[Raikas]

Zeleen wrote...

I like to have the significance of my background influence my gameplay... a true RPG ... but at the same time give the character the opportunity to "overcome" his background... not being familiar with how the game intends to actually do it it is hard to say "this or that" I think the main thing is DON'T PUNISH THE PLAYER FOR A CHOSEN BACKGROUND" heh heh

What do you mean by "punish the player"?  If there's a different (maybe positive, but maybe negative as well) outcome based on the character's background (or class, or gender, or personality for that matter) isn't that a good thing?  

[Travie]

I tend to think it would be more immersive if you got a small segment at the start where your background is very obviously talked about (even if the segment isn't necessarily devoted to it, and has basically the same beginning for all except for those interactions), then have plenty of moments in the story that reflect who you are.

Its just common sense to have people react differently to a mage than to a soldier.

[Zeleen]

Hervoyl wrote...

Zeleen wrote...

I like to have the significance of my background influence my gameplay... a true RPG ... but at the same time give the character the opportunity to "overcome" his background... not being familiar with how the game intends to actually do it it is hard to say "this or that" I think the main thing is DON'T PUNISH THE PLAYER FOR A CHOSEN BACKGROUND" heh heh

What do you mean by "punish the player"?  If there's a different (maybe positive, but maybe negative as well) outcome based on the character's background (or class, or gender, or personality for that matter) isn't that a good thing?  

yes it is a good thing consequences of your actions are always welcomed...

sorry, I meant - don't punish as in "Locked in to a particular way of acting"  in otherwords - if a player's background includes being raised by a pack of theives the player can over come that and not be a theif...  Like I said earlier it's hard to really say "this and not that" when you actually have no idea what the game developers have in mind

Modifié par Zeleen, 24 octobre 2012 - 07:42 .

[PsychoBlonde]

NUMBERED LIST TIME!!!

Degrees of impact:

1. It makes no difference whatsoever. Background is never seen again after being selected on the character generation page.

2. You get a free item or insignificant bonus that helps you out maybe in the first dungeon and is trivial thereafter. OR, you get some throwaway dialog to the effect of "hey, you're that one guy! Wanna buy some fish?" as opposed to "Hey, wanna buy some fish?"

3. You get a statistical effect/item that affects you throughout most of the game but can be compensated for. OR, you get optional quest approaches/solutions from your background.

4. You get a statistical effect/item that makes some builds wildly more favorable and others seriously unfavorable, but you can still make wild-ass "unfavorable" builds that work. OR, you get an entire side quest devoted to your background.

5. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds really suck and other builds really favorable, to the point where you have to enjoy pain to make those builds. OR, you get an entire side quest LINE devoted to your background.

6. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds completely unplayable. OR, you get a MAIN quest line devoted to your background.

7. The background you pick means you play through what is basically a completely different game.

I'd see anything 4+ as being "significant" impact. 1 and 7 are outliers--why have the background choice if it truly means nothing, and conversely if you're going to do 7 why not just make half a dozen games instead.

Being the type of player I am, I'd like to see more impact on the RP/questing side and maybe less impact on the statistical/gear side, but I WOULD like to see a significant statistical difference. (I'd also like to see a significant statistical difference from playing different races, and I'm not opposed to having statistical differences for genders, either.) I'd also like to see a RANGE of possible background options, some of which have no real effect, some of which have effects approaching the 5-6 range. Implementing that sort of thing at character creation might be rough, though, because it'd have to be pretty explicit which background was which. Spoilertastic.

Although, what they could do would be to have all backgrounds potentially in the 5-6 range, and as the game goes along if you consistently brush off your background it gets sidelined and you don't have to do the background-related stuff.  That would be kinda cool because, say, if you're a former criminal you could alternatively play someone who has gone straight and doesn't talk about their past, OR someone who still has ties to the criminal underworld, all off the same background.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:06 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Interesting way of quantifying it! (genuine compliment not sass haha).

[PsychoBlonde]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Interesting way of quantifying it! (genuine compliment not sass haha).

You're a QA dude, I figure you like things being quantified. 

[Leoroc]

6 seems like SWTOR where you had your class quests going on. I think I would like a step below that, if only because in SWTOR the class quests kind of fight with the planet stuff for your attention. It can feel awkward at some times (I am here on very important business! I would be glad to find you a shrubbery!)

[AllThatJazz]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

NUMBERED LIST TIME!!!

Degrees of impact:

1. It makes no difference whatsoever. Background is never seen again after being selected on the character generation page.

2. You get a free item or insignificant bonus that helps you out maybe in the first dungeon and is trivial thereafter. OR, you get some throwaway dialog to the effect of "hey, you're that one guy! Wanna buy some fish?" as opposed to "Hey, wanna buy some fish?"

3. You get a statistical effect/item that affects you throughout most of the game but can be compensated for. OR, you get optional quest approaches/solutions from your background.

4. You get a statistical effect/item that makes some builds wildly more favorable and others seriously unfavorable, but you can still make wild-ass "unfavorable" builds that work. OR, you get an entire side quest devoted to your background.

5. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds really suck and other builds really favorable, to the point where you have to enjoy pain to make those builds. OR, you get an entire side quest LINE devoted to your background.

6. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds completely unplayable. OR, you get a MAIN quest line devoted to your background.

7. The background you pick means you play through what is basically a completely different game.

I'd see anything 4+ as being "significant" impact. 1 and 7 are outliers--why have the background choice if it truly means nothing, and conversely if you're going to do 7 why not just make half a dozen games instead.

Being the type of player I am, I'd like to see more impact on the RP/questing side and maybe less impact on the statistical/gear side, but I WOULD like to see a significant statistical difference. (I'd also like to see a significant statistical difference from playing different races, and I'm not opposed to having statistical differences for genders, either.) I'd also like to see a RANGE of possible background options, some of which have no real effect, some of which have effects approaching the 5-6 range. Implementing that sort of thing at character creation might be rough, though, because it'd have to be pretty explicit which background was which. Spoilertastic.

Although, what they could do would be to have all backgrounds potentially in the 5-6 range, and as the game goes along if you consistently brush off your background it gets sidelined and you don't have to do the background-related stuff.  That would be kinda cool because, say, if you're a former criminal you could alternatively play someone who has gone straight and doesn't talk about their past, OR someone who still has ties to the criminal underworld, all off the same background.

Ooh, that's a darn fine list there, Psychoblonde.

5 or 6 would be perfect for me But yeah, a range is an excellent idea, then players could choose their own level of significance. Maybe it wouldn't have to be too spoilerific - a note at the top of the background description which states 'choosing this option will have a negligible/minor/moderate/major/dramatic effect on your personal story' or somesuch. Then you know roughly what to expect without, er, knowing what to expect !

[Beerfish]

Probably something like the back grounds you could choose in the ME games. Certain dialogue points in the game would be affected and also a unique quest or two for each back ground.

[Savber100]

I would love to have a unique quest based on my background along with influencing my relationship with companions.

Everything else is just the icing on the cake.

[Palipride47]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

NUMBERED LIST TIME!!!

Degrees of impact:

1. It makes no difference whatsoever. Background is never seen again after being selected on the character generation page.

2. You get a free item or insignificant bonus that helps you out maybe in the first dungeon and is trivial thereafter. OR, you get some throwaway dialog to the effect of "hey, you're that one guy! Wanna buy some fish?" as opposed to "Hey, wanna buy some fish?"

3. You get a statistical effect/item that affects you throughout most of the game but can be compensated for. OR, you get optional quest approaches/solutions from your background.

4. You get a statistical effect/item that makes some builds wildly more favorable and others seriously unfavorable, but you can still make wild-ass "unfavorable" builds that work. OR, you get an entire side quest devoted to your background.

5. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds really suck and other builds really favorable, to the point where you have to enjoy pain to make those builds. OR, you get an entire side quest LINE devoted to your background.

6. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds completely unplayable. OR, you get a MAIN quest line devoted to your background.

7. The background you pick means you play through what is basically a completely different game.

GREAT LIST!

4 and above would be good for me, but leaning more to the "quest and lore" differences as opposed to stat things. And some differences with companions (like DAO blood mages with Wynne)

Anything else is icing. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:19 .

[Iakus]

I'd call it "significant impact" if it affects hwo you can deal with certain NPCs, whether they would be receptive to your words, how they react to seeing you, and such. This could affect how missions can be resolved, who you make your ally or enemy. How easy it is to change enemy to ally (or vice versa). What resources you have to draw on

In addition, one or more side quests based on background would be awesome ("I Remember Me" = best side mission in ME1. Or even the whole dang trilogy. And it's only for Colonist Shepards)

And of course, it should come up in conversations:

"So ::name:: I heard you were a chevalier before..."
"What was it like growing up elf-blooded?"
"You were raised by the Circle? Wow, this must be tough for you"

[Puzzlewell]

Nrieh wrote...

All we had in DA2 was people we were meant to care about but who were strangers to us, I cared more about Wesleys death in the tutorial then I did my family members.

This has little to do with lack of "origins", imo.

I could hardly feel all the tragedy of Cousland, for example. Yes, I had few dialogues before big bad things happened, but it was not enough for real immersion and feelings (compare - Leandra). And some probably did not care much even about Duncan, no matter how detailed the battle was shown. Newbie Warden did not have time to know and love him as well, and can only feel some kind of compassion later during the game, via Alister's memories.

On the other hand - ME1, where you pick your non-playable backgrounds. And first thing you see is Anderson-Udina discussing you personally, respecting your background, and your char gazing stars. So - you just "dive" into your own specified custom character asap.

What I am trying to say here - playable custom origin does not equal good immersion. Same as lack of it does not mean poor storytelling.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Try as I might, I've never been able to feel connected to Duncan no matter the three origins I have played (CE, HN, DE). Like you said, I'm sure we're supposed to see Alister's grief as a sort of connecting point but I honestly have never been able to bring myself to feel any kind of loss with him.

The topic itself I am unsure what my answer would be. While I enjoyed the origins that I played, further into the game they stopped being remotely important to the plot and you just kind of became 'The Warden'. That being said, the backgrounds of ME could have been used a bit better as they mostly only come up in ME1 occasionally. I think I like the idea of it having some bearing on how you complete quests. It would create a fair bit of work for the writers and it might be a little odd in practice but it does a fair bit to keep me interested and feel connected to my character, especially when it comes to coaxing me into trying a new background for a slightly different flavor of character. When it comes to replayability I am the type of person that sticks to a same build if nothing is really different throughout the story. I don't consider that a bad thing per se, but little differences does at least mildly persuade me to try something new.

[TheJediSaint]

In order for anything to have a "significant impact", it should leave a dent.

[goofyomnivore]

Unique prologue, endings and interaction with NPCs -- especially companions.

[Bondari the Reloader]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

NUMBERED LIST TIME!!!

Degrees of impact:

1. It makes no difference whatsoever. Background is never seen again after being selected on the character generation page.

2. You get a free item or insignificant bonus that helps you out maybe in the first dungeon and is trivial thereafter. OR, you get some throwaway dialog to the effect of "hey, you're that one guy! Wanna buy some fish?" as opposed to "Hey, wanna buy some fish?"

3. You get a statistical effect/item that affects you throughout most of the game but can be compensated for. OR, you get optional quest approaches/solutions from your background.

4. You get a statistical effect/item that makes some builds wildly more favorable and others seriously unfavorable, but you can still make wild-ass "unfavorable" builds that work. OR, you get an entire side quest devoted to your background.

5. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds really suck and other builds really favorable, to the point where you have to enjoy pain to make those builds. OR, you get an entire side quest LINE devoted to your background.

6. You get an item/statistical effect that makes some builds completely unplayable. OR, you get a MAIN quest line devoted to your background.

7. The background you pick means you play through what is basically a completely different game.

I'd see anything 4+ as being "significant" impact. 1 and 7 are outliers--why have the background choice if it truly means nothing, and conversely if you're going to do 7 why not just make half a dozen games instead.

Being the type of player I am, I'd like to see more impact on the RP/questing side and maybe less impact on the statistical/gear side, but I WOULD like to see a significant statistical difference. (I'd also like to see a significant statistical difference from playing different races, and I'm not opposed to having statistical differences for genders, either.) I'd also like to see a RANGE of possible background options, some of which have no real effect, some of which have effects approaching the 5-6 range. Implementing that sort of thing at character creation might be rough, though, because it'd have to be pretty explicit which background was which. Spoilertastic.

Although, what they could do would be to have all backgrounds potentially in the 5-6 range, and as the game goes along if you consistently brush off your background it gets sidelined and you don't have to do the background-related stuff.  That would be kinda cool because, say, if you're a former criminal you could alternatively play someone who has gone straight and doesn't talk about their past, OR someone who still has ties to the criminal underworld, all off the same background.

I really like this list! I would agree that 4+ would be what I'm hoping for, but adding optional quest solutions from #3 and specific NPC interactions. That isn't too much to ask for, is it?

I'm also glad that someone else likes to make "unfavorable" builds for their characters. I don't do it all the time, but sometimes it's fun to play a character who's not statistically suited for their chosen career.

[ledod]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I'd also like some opportunity at the beginning to role-play my background a bit.

Why just the beginning?

Oh snap-a-doodle! Sir, are you implying that backgrounds will be prominent in the beginning, in the middle, and in the end ????

[Il Divo]

Significant impact to me means better than ME1's half-hearted attempt.

Bit harsh, but that's the best way I can say it.  I'd prefer something a bit more detailed than a slight modification of a sidequest (Ex: Major Kyle). The problem with ME1 is that it became easy to forget Shepard's backstory in comparison to the overarching narrative, which obviously had greater significance.

Something more like the DA:O origins in total content-size, but spread out over the course of the whole game, similar to what DA2 did with the companion questlines. Turn it into a full-featured sub-plot.

Modifié par Il Divo, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:46 .

[Raikas]

sorry, I meant - don't punish as in "Locked in to a particular way of acting" in otherwords - if a player's background includes being raised by a pack of theives the player can over come that and not be a theif...

Ah, that makes sense! I’ve seen posts in the ME forums that call different outcomes “punishment” so I wondered.

2. You get a free item or insignificant bonus that helps you out maybe in the first dungeon and is trivial thereafter. OR, you get some throwaway dialog to the effect of "hey, you're that one guy! Wanna buy some fish?" as opposed to "Hey, wanna buy some fish?"

I'll admit to finding the idea of those throw-away lines more attractive than items or stat bonuses (although I'd hope for lots of them throughout the game). I like to see character differences that change character interactions or the tone of the story - In terms of gameplay I'm personally more interested in altering my gameplay by playing a different class or at a different difficulty level (obviously if the backgrounds turn out to be tied to character class then there's no difference there). Similarly, I actually find the idea of doing the same quest in a different style or with different characters almost equally attractive to having a completely unique sub-quest.

[AppealToReason]

Hervoyl wrote...

Zeleen wrote...

I like to have the significance of my background influence my gameplay... a true RPG ... but at the same time give the character the opportunity to "overcome" his background... not being familiar with how the game intends to actually do it it is hard to say "this or that" I think the main thing is DON'T PUNISH THE PLAYER FOR A CHOSEN BACKGROUND" heh heh

What do you mean by "punish the player"?  If there's a different (maybe positive, but maybe negative as well) outcome based on the character's background (or class, or gender, or personality for that matter) isn't that a good thing?  

Of course not. If you actually have a choice reflect more than anything minor and cosmetic then what was the point? Now people are getting screwed for their choices! That's not what people want. People don't want choices. If they wanted choices then they'd be totally cool with things like that.

e: nevermind. I see this post wasn't necessary as it wasn't in reference to another person saying they wanted a choice but only if every choice came with all the best options.

Modifié par AppealToReason, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:23 .

[Palipride47]

Hervoyl wrote...

I'll admit to finding the idea of those throw-away lines more attractive than items or stat bonuses (although I'd hope for lots of them throughout the game). I like to see character differences that change character interactions or the tone of the story - In terms of gameplay I'm personally more interested in altering my gameplay by playing a different class or at a different difficulty level (obviously if the backgrounds turn out to be tied to character class then there's no difference there). Similarly, I actually find the idea of doing the same quest in a different style or with different characters almost equally attractive to having a completely unique sub-quest.

I like lines better, since the class specific stuff you got in DAO was usually replaced by something better at the end, anyway, or if you got it at the end, you just turned around and sold it because you already had the awesome stuff (like Fang in DAO)

I think mage/ warrior/ rogue + specialization (which could play into your origin as well) would be enough to "differentiate" the gameplay. For me, at least.

[Zeleen]

AppealToReason wrote...

Hervoyl wrote...

Zeleen wrote...

I like to have the significance of my background influence my gameplay... a true RPG ... but at the same time give the character the opportunity to "overcome" his background... not being familiar with how the game intends to actually do it it is hard to say "this or that" I think the main thing is DON'T PUNISH THE PLAYER FOR A CHOSEN BACKGROUND" heh heh

What do you mean by "punish the player"?  If there's a different (maybe positive, but maybe negative as well) outcome based on the character's background (or class, or gender, or personality for that matter) isn't that a good thing?  

Ohf course not. If you actually have a choice reflect more than anything minor and cosmetic then what was the point? Now people are getting screwed for their choices! That's not what people want. People don't want choices. If they wanted choices then they'd be totally cool with things like that.

first I did clarify what i meant...
in a following post I said
"yes it is a good thing consequences of your actions are always welcomed...

sorry, I meant - don't punish as in "Locked in to a particular way of acting" in otherwords - if a player's background includes being raised by a pack of theives the player can over come that and not be a theif... Like I said earlier it's hard to really say "this and not that" when you actually have no idea what the game developers have in mind "

choices should have significant consequences as well as minor ones....
in DA:O  the choice to do the dark ritual or not had a significant consequence in the game...  I think this is good... choices should absolutely be more than mionor or cosmetic...

[AppealToReason]

Zeleen wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Hervoyl wrote...

Zeleen wrote...

I like to have the significance of my background influence my gameplay... a true RPG ... but at the same time give the character the opportunity to "overcome" his background... not being familiar with how the game intends to actually do it it is hard to say "this or that" I think the main thing is DON'T PUNISH THE PLAYER FOR A CHOSEN BACKGROUND" heh heh

What do you mean by "punish the player"?  If there's a different (maybe positive, but maybe negative as well) outcome based on the character's background (or class, or gender, or personality for that matter) isn't that a good thing?  

Ohf course not. If you actually have a choice reflect more than anything minor and cosmetic then what was the point? Now people are getting screwed for their choices! That's not what people want. People don't want choices. If they wanted choices then they'd be totally cool with things like that.

first I did clarify what i meant...
in a following post I said
"yes it is a good thing consequences of your actions are always welcomed...

sorry, I meant - don't punish as in "Locked in to a particular way of acting" in otherwords - if a player's background includes being raised by a pack of theives the player can over come that and not be a theif... Like I said earlier it's hard to really say "this and not that" when you actually have no idea what the game developers have in mind "

choices should have significant consequences as well as minor ones....
in DA:O  the choice to do the dark ritual or not had a significant consequence in the game...  I think this is good... choices should absolutely be more than mionor or cosmetic...

Yeah I just realized that and put a little note in my post. I've just seen a million posts already where people cry about how they want a million choices with a billion outcomes but if any of the choices is more favourable than the other it should be removed because why would you ever pick something that wasn't "option 1"

[DMan7733]

MORE BACKGROUNDS THAN ORIGINS!

With that out of my system, let me explain why.

I love magic, and elves, selecting elf gave me two options, selecting mage gave me one option, even when it explicitly states in the elf quests and other backgrounds that they have keepers that use magic. Only having one mage background annoyed me a little, making every mage I made almost the same. (I probably still would have chosen circle mage even whith both choices, but for a second playthrough)

A background should contain points that your character values, people who your character knows, and something that your character can remember. Without playable origins this could be a problem though, being handed a background doesn't have the impact of being able to interact with others and learning how they think/act.

Background should allow you throw around some leverage (if your noble), but abuse of such power should lead to a good reason for it being removed, or some people resenting you for being "that noble". It would be hard to work out whether someone would prefer to be called by a title or their name, because if a party member asked that question the answer may change depending on who it is. Having randoms call you that would depend on how your reputation builds, which would just be hard to work out as far as I'm concerned.

As for quests though, if it is split into acts, an entire act could be dependent on exploring the background, and future acts could include side-quests. But in the event a nice non-act format, a segment of the main quest should be a part of your background, but without an interactive background it would be difficult again to produce the effect of actually wanting to protect/destroy it. When I played the circle mage background in Origin's, the "the broken circle" quest felt really close to home. Side-quests are a must, I don't pick a background JUST to use it as a base for my character's choices, but also because I enjoy knowing that my character is someone in the world, and didn't start out as an epicly powerful mage that kills with a thought.

[Twisted Path]

I doubt this will ever happen but I'd love to see a background or more that involves your character being happily married. In the game we never see the husband/wife but there a few lines here or there about "your girl/guy back home." This would be great for players who want to avoid any of the romances and would give them a perfect in-world reason to do so.