79 réponses à ce sujet

[Puzzlewell]

Circumstance could be called DA2's main antagonist, heh. While Meredith does go a bit over the top, I found her to be intriguing up until the final battle (note: I've only ever played pro-mage). Let's be honest in her VA's delivery of "Blessed are those who stand before the corrupt and the wicked and do not falter!" was pretty astounding. Like many though, I do feel that act 2 is the highlight of the game for me so matching the intensity of it for act 3 was going to be pretty difficult (and for me it didn't come close but oh well).

I personally appreciate antagonists that make me feel for them. Not quite approve of their methods but if they can make me understand why they stand against whatever side I'm on I appreciate them a lot more. I'm assuming they won't go the route of unspeaking "monster" again which I'm happy for. While it worked in DAO, I must admit that evil for the sake of evil and main antagonists that don't speak are things that I don't really care for in games these days.

[Vilegrim]

Darkstorne wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...
someone whose motives you can understand, even if you don't agree with the methods. (Or maybe you do)

That's the danger with making them too respectable. If I agree with the antagonist, I'll want to work with him. And unless Bioware are making a game with decisions that can completely alter the direction the story takes and the locations you travel to (smart money is on them not doing that - it would be an insane amount of work), you won't be allowed that option.

So they'll continue to make antagonists like TIM and the Arishok - with motives you can understand, but never quite want to side with.

The Witcher 2 managed to have an antogonist you could agree with (several in fact, some you could side with) while maintaining a perfectly valid and understanable reason why you can't side with them, in fact the entire Worthy Opponent trope is built on this idea.

[DarthLaxian]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Loghain was a great charather,I took him in my party every time!

well, mate, here we have to dissagree.

he WAS an honorable and great person once, but he became a paranoid maniac that has no loyalty left in him (in RL i would not trust him for fear that he would backstab me!) - hell he kills his KING (!) that is HIGH-TREASON (!) and an offence even todays nations demand the death penalty for (and in war even my own country of german would enforce that!) so no way!

as for a respectable antagonist:

yes please.

i want an antagonist that is capable, has capable minions (not braindead sidekicks) and leutenants (neither of which need to be sadistic, cruel or barbaric)...hell to put it in a nutshell:

i want an enemy that has class and STYLE.

it must not even be the big bad himself/herself (who knows, a women as big antagonist would be fun) maybe just another person that is from your past and holds a grudge? or maybe the classy antagonist is only part of the problem (like say one of your opponents is a seeker, while the brunt of enemie troops you meet (the gunfodder almost any RPG has) are just lowly soldiers and templars...and that was just an example, meaning, there can still be hordes of enemies, i just want some of them to be more then just gunfodder

hell there could be MULTIPLE classY ANTAGONISTS which must all be stopped - or "converted" to your cause and then you can take on big bad finally?

greetings LAX

[Maclimes]

DarthLaxian wrote...
hell there could be MULTIPLE classY ANTAGONISTS which must all be stopped - or "converted" to your cause and then you can take on big bad finally?

Why can't the classy, potentially-convertible antagonist BE the big bad?

Why does it have to end with a huge boss fight? I'd like the option, if I have been playing the game in the appropriate manner (cultivating the correct skills, influencing the right people, recruiting the right followers), to end the conflict without a huge battle.

Imagine, in DA2, if you had been doing a series of quests to convince Cullen that Meredith was wrong, and brought him over to your way of thinking. Using the shard of red lyrium from Varric's quest, you also discovered a way to magically negate red lyrium. You also, by making the correct decisions in a number of quests, convinced Orsino that violence was not the answer to their problems.

Then, during the showdown with Meredith, instead of a big boss-fight, you could select the right conversation options to surround Meredith with an army of Templar and Mages, while negating her sword. She'd be powerless, captured, and arrested. No giant, forced boss battle at all.

And I, for one, would still feel like I got a worthwhile ending... as long as it was my choice to make.

(EDIT: I know why the above scenario wouldn't work in the long-term story plans of Dragon Age. I was just using it as an example)

Modifié par Maclimes, 25 octobre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

I just want an antagonist who actually scares me. I never felt threatened by Loghain due to his general incompetence. Meredith should've been a lot scarier in Act 1 when she could really screw over Hawke/Bethany. But she never turned up as anything other than a whispered bogeyman, and once she did become a presence, Hawke was powerful enough where Meredith's threats become useless. The only person in DA2 who ever felt like he could really mess up Hawke's day was the Arishok.

Jon Irenicus terrified me. So did Master Li once the reveal came of what he really was. I HAD to at least respect their strength, cunning, and persistence or I'd get pretty hosed. I miss antagonists like that.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 25 octobre 2012 - 06:48 .

[Maclimes]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

So did Master Li once the reveal came of what he really was. I HAD to at least respect their strength, cunning, and persistence or I'd get pretty hosed. I miss antagonists like that.

A thousand times yes. Say what you will about Jade Empire, but Master Li was the most terrifying and heart-breaking villain Bioware ever devised.

[mousestalker]

I agree totally with the OP. Far too many antagonists are entirely disreputable, unhygienic, scruffy and just plain dirty.

In DA3, at least have the antagonists well dressed and well groomed.

[Bfler]

DarthLaxian wrote...

hell there could be MULTIPLE classY ANTAGONISTS which must all be stopped - or "converted" to your cause and then you can take on big bad finally?

Or the big bad guy at the end converts your party members, like in the end fight in NWN 2.
I had to turn down the difficulty to easy in my first playthrough, because  I lost almost half of my team, including the elemental mage.

[Nashimura]

I really dont know why they didnt have Meredith and Orsino show up more through out the game, Meredith should of been there as you walked through the first area looking out for mages trying to enter the city, the whole point of that should of been trying to get you or Bethany past her and her templars instead of the whole refugee thing.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Maclimes wrote...
Why can't the classy, potentially-convertible antagonist BE the big bad?

Why does it have to end with a huge boss fight? I'd like the option, if I have been playing the game in the appropriate manner (cultivating the correct skills, influencing the right people, recruiting the right followers), to end the conflict without a huge battle.

+9001

[TheJediSaint]

Well, how about an clearly evil antagonist who has believable reasons for be the way he(or she) is?

[Henioo]

Yeah, I want a proper bad guy.

Orsino just attacked me out of the blue, no matter who you side with; and Meredith was just cliche.

[Henioo]

DarthLaxian wrote...
Why does it have to end with a huge boss fight?

Coz otherwise we get Mass Effect 3 where you press a button to end the game.

Modifié par Henioo, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[Vearsin]

I would like another antagonist who would rank on Game Informers top game characters of the decade list.

[Henioo]

The Witcher 1 had one of the best antagonists I've ever seen. Even though he actually appeared in the final act, as did Meredith, his actions were foreshadowed, and he was revealed to be pulling all the strings throughout the game.

Also, he was another character that travelled in time with magic. He got much older, and thus looked different. A friend became an enemy. If that ain't tight, I don't know what is.

Modifié par Henioo, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:04 .

[Maclimes]

Henioo wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...
Why does it have to end with a huge boss fight?

Coz otherwise we get Mass Effect 3 where you press a button to end the game.

I did specify that it was a choice. If you want, if it's appropriate for your PC and your playstyle, go ahead and have the big fight. I didn't say "Have no fight". I said, "Give us options to solve the problem without fighting, if we choose".

[Knight of Dane]

mousestalker wrote...

I agree totally with the OP. Far too many antagonists are entirely disreputable, unhygienic, scruffy and just plain dirty.

In DA3, at least have the antagonists well dressed and well groomed.

Remember to wash behind the ears too, evil usually gets stuck there.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 25 octobre 2012 - 10:31 .

[DragonKingReborn]

The Arishok and Logain were brilliant as antagonists - because they truly believed they were making a positive difference/right decision and wouldn't let anything stand in their way. I think a good twist for DA:I would be a popular companion/NPC from one of the first two games being the primary antagonist (on either side of the mage/templar divide), for example, Cullen being the leader of the blood crazed Templars. He'd have reason enough, having lived through the Gallows and is very popular with a lot of fan. The "inquisitor" would have to take him out, regardless of their (the players) personal views on him. Identifying and (to a point) sympathising with an antagonist is the mark of truly great writing, whether it be for a game, novel, television or film.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Knight of Dane wrote...

It would be cool to have a "grey" antagonist. A respectful rival, perhaps even a old friend from the past who just happens to disagree with you.

I think it would really cool to have Hawke play this sort of role, allowing for variables such as where Hawke's sympathies lay in the previous game (Mage or Templar). That way it's more than a cameo appearance and can be tied into an important secondary questline or even the main plot. It would be cool to see customized Hawkes show up in this sort of role.

I believe this would be a good and interesting way in which save file transfers can be used to enhance our gaming experience.

P.S. I am not suggesting that Hawke be the BIG BAD, BTW.

[Nashimura]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

It would be cool to have a "grey" antagonist. A respectful rival, perhaps even a old friend from the past who just happens to disagree with you.

I think it would really cool to have Hawke play this sort of role, allowing for variables such as where Hawke's sympathies lay in the previous game (Mage or Templar). That way it's more than a cameo appearance and can be tied into an important secondary questline or even the main plot. It would be cool to see customized Hawkes show up in this sort of role.

I believe this would be a good and interesting way in which save file transfers can be used to enhance our gaming experience.

P.S. I am not suggesting that Hawke be the BIG BAD, BTW.

I think anyone who really liked Hawke would hate for him to be taken out of there hands to such a degree, I think it is a great idea but fans to become attached, i really wouldnt like to see this done with the Warden if it was possible thats for sure. 

[n7stormrunner]

I agree a good antagonist always improves things. I would prefer if DA:I had one grey enough that depending on how we play can seem like the good guy or the bad guy, if for no other reason then it could be fun to play as the bad guy.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

sympathetic villains are fine and all, though i am growing increasingly weary of them, especially in BW games.

what really intrigues me are villains who are well written complete monsters. highly intelligent, extremely logical and rational, absolutely brutal. kind of like a certain roose bolton and his bastard son in song of ice and fire. for added bonus, make this villain a karma houdini, who can do horrible horrible deeds (preferably to someone or something that the player can relate to), and still get to walk away scott free (at least initially).

i am of the belief that we need moar villains who can inspire so much hatred, and perhaps even fear/terror in both the playable character and the player him/herself

[n7stormrunner]

that is also good.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

n7stormrunner wrote...

that is also good.

well, u know, at least to act as a counterbalance to any of the more greyish antagonists that may be present.

if you ever read a song of ice and fire, there are quite a few of these. like joffrey. cruel to the point that he truly enjoys the cruelty (yet not batsht insane; he clearly knows what hes doing), yet untouchable because of his stature (and he knows this). add in some smugness, pretentiousness, superiority complex, and whatnot.

i would consider a villain a success if he makes me want to reach into the book (or tv or computer screen etc.) and place my hands around his neck, or if he makes me wanna just RUN (like how i feel about the joker in the dark knight).

[n7stormrunner]

I read the first two... joffrey was clearly insane though.. not to bright ether personally I prefer the imp or his father. actually littlefinger is my favorite because he is littlefinger.