328 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

I want the combat to play more like DA2's (without the wave system though) but looks wise I'm not a giant fan of how silly some of the animations looked.

It confuses me a bit. Guild Wars 2 has equally ridiculous combat animations, but I find the Guild Wars 2 animations much better than DA2's. Maybe its because my two handed warrior actually looks like he's straining slightly when attacking, like the weapon actually has weight, while fenris whirled around a two handed sword as though it was made of foam.

[Sidney]

EJ107 wrote...

I want the combat to play more like DA2's (without the wave system though) but looks wise I'm not a giant fan of how silly some of the animations looked. 

A lot of my issues with the look n' feel related to the awful, weapon designs. Many of which looks wildly unnatural when being wielded because there is almost no way they could actually ever work.

[Il Divo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

And why was the Mage waving his staff around like a lunatic?  You deride the "stabbing at air" motion, but that's how guns work - the staff auto-attack was basically gunplay.

If so, it was some of the ugliest gunplay I've ever seen. KotOR's blaster animations weren't quite that bad.

Modifié par Il Divo, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:09 .

[Il Divo]

anorling wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

1) if you think DAO's combat was "realistic", you have no idea what you're talking about
2) If you ask for realistic combat in a game, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Real combat isn't fun or glorious. It's messy, painful, and traumatic. You don't want realistic combat. If you got it, you wouldn't enjoy it; instead you'd be making therapy appointments. Let's leave the word 'realistic' behind and use mroe appropriate terms, hmm?

That said, DA:O's combat was slow and tedious. DA2's combat may have been over the top, but at least it was fun, and not a time-consuming slog I started replacing with the "killallhostiles" command just to escape the monotony.

I think that when people say "realistic looking" combat they are referring to the animations and general movement and speed of the battle. I'm pretty sure they don't mean that they want the protagonist to have a psychological breakdown in the middle of the battlefield if things get messy.

Even this is questionable. DA:O had some very awkward "Warden shuffle" animations. And the autoattack demonstrated how artificial the animations actually were, especially in comparison to the awesome executions. Realism, imo, doesn't save DA:O'd combat.

If Bioware is taking notes, I think they should borrow more from KotOR, enjoyable combat animations and the speed/flow of combat was a nice medium between DA:O and DA2.  

[Wulfram]

Avoiding the shuffle just needs a nice lunge attack, or some other thing that allows you to attack and move at the same time. It doesn't require huge jumps or that slidy thing the fighters do.

KotOR's animations only worked because of the pseudo-turned based nature of the game, which made incorporating dodges and parries into the animations possible. Making your character take time out of attacking to dodge or parry would be very annoying in the Dragon Age system of combat.

[Il Divo]

I would actually prefer if they went back to the turn-based approach. I really enjoyed that sense of the player being locked in a duel of death with another opponent, though I'm not certain how difficult this would be to implement. .

Modifié par Il Divo, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:23 .

[philippe willaume]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

As for the combat - I agree, DA:O's combat got excruciantingly slow at times - the SHUFFLING, sitting there as each second felt like an eternity while your character tried and failed to find your opponent's hitbox like a teenager with his first girlfriend.

I feel the biggest issue was the extreme respect your characters treated the enemies with. Finished DAO with a melee character just a few days ago. I certainly didn't even try to keep track of how many times I'd want to intercept an enemy who was trying to run past my character, put her in the enemy's path, clicked Attack, only to have my dear tank start tip toeing around the approaching enemy and not land a single blow as they run past. It's utter bullcrap >_<

Yeah I know it's technically related to the shuffling, but the general shuffling itself isn't as aggravating as that one instance imho =) Of course, since I was playing a tank, my short-term memory is biased to the problems that character found. Closing attacks were a very functional band-aid, methinks =)

The thing is that it can be easily worked around, with tactics and planning i.e. use traps or place you tanks in position when he can not be easily contoured and or control the free space with a mage and a ready cone of cold,

you can't do that in DA:2 .
Your companion will only stay still within x meters of the active char and they can't start anything new until they have finished their animation. and you can not gather information on the number location and the route the enemy would take.

Phil.

Modifié par philippe willaume, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:27 .

[Wulfram]

Il Divo wrote...

I would actually prefer if they went back to the turn-based approach. I really enjoyed that sense of the player being locked in a duel of death with another opponent, though I'm not certain how difficult this would be to implement. .

I liked it too, but the current devs seem big on reactivity, which the turn based approach totally contradicts.

Modifié par Wulfram, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:29 .

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Il Divo wrote...

I would actually prefer if they went back to the turn-based approach. I really enjoyed that sense of the player being locked in a duel of death with another opponent, though I'm not certain how difficult this would be to implement. .

I don't think I can handle turn-based combat in DA, not after the combat we've already had. That works great in XCOM, because that's pretty much always been the combat style.

Also, I think of final fantasy with turn-based combat, and I am just not a fan of that for these games.

[Wulfram]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I don't think I can handle turn-based combat in DA, not after the combat we've already had. That works great in XCOM, because that's pretty much always been the combat style.

Also, I think of final fantasy with turn-based combat, and I am just not a fan of that for these games.

We're not talking actual turn based, but the real-time pseudo turned based like in BG, NWN and KotOR.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wulfram wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

I would actually prefer if they went back to the turn-based approach. I really enjoyed that sense of the player being locked in a duel of death with another opponent, though I'm not certain how difficult this would be to implement. .

I liked it too, but the current devs seem big on reactivity, which the turn based approach totally contradicts.

DA2's combat was less reactive than DAO's combat.  In DA2, characters wouldn't immediately respond to my instructions, instead having to complete the animation of whatever they were already doing.

But in DAO, those animations were interruptable, so the characters would immediately respond.

DAO's combat was more reactive than DA2's.

[Il Divo]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I don't think I can handle turn-based combat in DA, not after the combat we've already had. That works great in XCOM, because that's pretty much always been the combat style.

Aside from the KotOR animations being a good amount faster, I thought they felt very similar in terms of the balance between tactical and real-time. .

Also, I think of final fantasy with turn-based combat, and I am just not a fan of that for these games.

They're actually very different styles. KotOR is technically a turn-based game, but has a strong emphasis on real-time. Final Fantasy is a full on turn-based game, where you choose all your party's actions, then watch the scenario play out.

Check out a few gameplay videos on Youtube. You might not like it regardless, but the style of combat is very different from Final Fantasy. It's closer to DA:O in stye, despite it not being turn-based.  

Edit: What Wulf said.

Modifié par Il Divo, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:39 .

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Wulfram wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I don't think I can handle turn-based combat in DA, not after the combat we've already had. That works great in XCOM, because that's pretty much always been the combat style.

Also, I think of final fantasy with turn-based combat, and I am just not a fan of that for these games.

We're not talking actual turn based, but the real-time pseudo turned based like in BG, NWN and KotOR.

Then maybe that should have been stated initially. When I see 'turn-based' combat, I think turn-based combat and not psuedo turn-based or 'real-time' turn-based.

The only games out of those three I've played is KotOR, and I have to say I was overall not a fan of the combat.

Modifié par TsaiMeLemoni, 25 octobre 2012 - 12:44 .

[Wulfram]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Then maybe that should have been stated initially. When I see 'turn-based' combat, I think turn-based combat and not psuedo turn-based or 'real-time' turn-based.

It was.  My post mentioned KotOR and pseudo turn-baded

The only games out of those three I've played is KotOR, and I have to say I was overall not a fan of the combat.

Fair enough.  There certainly are disadvantages to the appoach.  But it does allow for some pretty combat animations

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Wulfram wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Then maybe that should have been stated initially. When I see 'turn-based' combat, I think turn-based combat and not psuedo turn-based or 'real-time' turn-based.

It was.  My post mentioned KotOR and pseudo turn-baded


Fair enough.  There certainly are disadvantages to the appoach.  But it does allow for some pretty combat animations

I was referring to the initial post I quoted from Il Divo, not your post which most obviously clarified his, or I wouldn't have responded as I did.

[Il Divo]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Then maybe that should have been stated initially. When I see 'turn-based' combat, I think turn-based combat and not psuedo turn-based or 'real-time' turn-based.

It was.  My post mentioned KotOR and pseudo turn-baded


Fair enough.  There certainly are disadvantages to the appoach.  But it does allow for some pretty combat animations

I was referring to the initial post I quoted from Il Divo, not your post which most obviously clarified his, or I wouldn't have responded as I did.

Still, his initial post specified that KotOR was pseudo-turn-based. And the entire content of my post concerned KotOR's approach, which you have also played. I'm not certain where the ambiguity stems from?

[Twisted Path]

I thought the anime-style somersaults, dance fighting, ninja vanishing and weightless greatsword flicking in DA2 looked incredibly stupid and was hands down my least favorite part of the game. The wave system and recycled dungeons was bad enough but I hated the silly animations the most. I really hope they put combat animations (and to some extent abilities,) in DA3 that are more setting-appropriate to a medieval high fantasy game instead of looking like something from a Shonen Jump manga.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Il Divo wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Then maybe that should have been stated initially. When I see 'turn-based' combat, I think turn-based combat and not psuedo turn-based or 'real-time' turn-based.

It was.  My post mentioned KotOR and pseudo turn-baded


Fair enough.  There certainly are disadvantages to the appoach.  But it does allow for some pretty combat animations

I was referring to the initial post I quoted from Il Divo, not your post which most obviously clarified his, or I wouldn't have responded as I did.

Still, his initial post specified that KotOR was pseudo-turn-based. And the entire content of my post concerned KotOR's approach, which you have also played. I'm not certain where the ambiguity stems from?

Because I was responding to your post, which simply stated turn-based combat. If Wulfram mentioned anything like he did in response to me before my actual post in response to yours, then I didn't see it.

Also, just because you say KotOR doesn't mean that I know what style of combat it was. It was a game I tried and didn't like, I didn't research how it was made or what combat system it based off of.

[Il Divo]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Also, just because you say KotOR doesn't mean that I know what style of combat it was. It was a game I tried and didn't like, I didn't research how it was made or what combat system it based off of.

Not really necessary. Five minutes with the game should have shown you that it's nothing like Final Fantasy, regardless of whether you disliked both games, which is completely fair.

Modifié par Il Divo, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:18 .

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Il Divo wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Also, just because you say KotOR doesn't mean that I know what style of combat it was. It was a game I tried and didn't like, I didn't research how it was made or what combat system it based off of.

Not really necessary. Five minutes with the game should have shown you that it's nothing like Final Fantasy, regardless of whether you disliked both games, which is completely fair.

I didn't equate the two. I just stated that final fantasy was another game I thought of when I see 'turn-based'. I also mentioned XCOM, are you going to assume I don't know the difference between it and final fantasy either?


EDIT: And just so we can get this out of the way, none of my remarks were meant as a personal attack. I scan the new page of this thread every so often, and my eyes caught the words 'turn-based' and that's the post I read and decided to respond to.

Your post didn't quote anyone else, so I had no reason to assume you were directly responding to anyone else in any semblance of conversation, so I am sure I missed some crucial context.

Modifié par TsaiMeLemoni, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Il Divo]

Fair enough. I'll stop making an ass out of myself now.

[Kail Ashton]

Not boring gameplay mechanics that's slugish & dull! looks nothing like realistic comba and more like watching two AI's fight each other in all it's uncanny valley awkwardness! OH BOY! what a great brain fart this topic is! sign me up please!!

....was that sarcastic enough? or should i etch the word "sarcasim" into a baseball bat as i hit you repeditly over the head with it ?

[MilaBanilla]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

No. I nearly died of boredom when I tried to replay DAO because the combat was so bloody monotonous. I liked DA2 style a lot more.

I second this. Being a warrior in DAO was extremely boring and slow with one-handed weapon <_<
DA2 made the fighting exciting  A tad bit fast but overall fun. Maybe adjust the combat speed slightly and I'm good 

[johndud0]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

I would actually prefer if they went back to the turn-based approach. I really enjoyed that sense of the player being locked in a duel of death with another opponent, though I'm not certain how difficult this would be to implement. .

I liked it too, but the current devs seem big on reactivity, which the turn based approach totally contradicts.

DA2's combat was less reactive than DAO's combat.  In DA2, characters wouldn't immediately respond to my instructions, instead having to complete the animation of whatever they were already doing.

But in DAO, those animations were interruptable, so the characters would immediately respond.

DAO's combat was more reactive than DA2's.

Characters would also still get hit with 2H weapons when running  2 meters away.