328 réponses à ce sujet

[Maclimes]

LTD wrote...
And yet, some people prefer latter:(    Hey some people, DA II is partially  YOUR FAULT, you hear me?!  If that doesn't keep you awake at nights I don't know what does! 

Logic is not your strong point, is it?

You basically said, "Hey, people who enjoy DA2! You should feel bad that it's your fault the game exists!" But those people ENJOYED THE GAME. Why would they feel bad?

[Sidney]

LTD wrote...
DA:O - > Relatively impressive looking combat, plenty of good animation going on.

Really, and YOU criticize others? DAO's combat looked like you had two sets of somnambulists out there going at it because they seems to encounter each other more by chance than by design and once they do I've seen dances take less time before someone hits.

DAO's encounter design was much better than DA2's
DA's2 mechanics (speed, combos) were better than DAO's

[LTD]

Maclimes wrote...

LTD wrote...
And yet, some people prefer latter:(    Hey some people, DA II is partially  YOUR FAULT, you hear me?!  If that doesn't keep you awake at nights I don't know what does! 

Logic is not your strong point, is it?

You basically said, "Hey, people who enjoy DA2! You should feel bad that it's your fault the game exists!" But those people ENJOYED THE GAME. Why would they feel bad?

DA II has brought only strife and misery to this world. All it takes is an intact moral compass to feel guilt and shame for liking it and/or promoting it.

[teenparty]

The thing I miss about DAO is the violence. The killing blows. The way people were thrown to the ground by shield bash, rather than flying through the air like it was on the moon.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

LTD wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

LTD wrote...
And yet, some people prefer latter:(    Hey some people, DA II is partially  YOUR FAULT, you hear me?!  If that doesn't keep you awake at nights I don't know what does! 

Logic is not your strong point, is it?

You basically said, "Hey, people who enjoy DA2! You should feel bad that it's your fault the game exists!" But those people ENJOYED THE GAME. Why would they feel bad?

DA II has brought only strife and misery to this world. All it takes is an intact moral compass to feel guilt and shame for liking it and/or promoting it.

Then I must be evil as all hell. BWAHAHAHaHAHAHAHA!

[LTD]

Sidney wrote...

LTD wrote...
DA:O - > Relatively impressive looking combat, plenty of good animation going on.

Really, and YOU criticize others? DAO's combat looked like you had two sets of somnambulists out there going at it because they seems to encounter each other more by chance than by design and once they do I've seen dances take less time before someone hits.

DAO's encounter design was much better than DA2's
DA's2 mechanics (speed, combos) were better than DAO's

DA2's take on speed was something along the lines of  " Let's make things happen so fast we don't have to animate jack ****" In general, speed and melee combat is a pretty delicate mix. It can't be easy to make things fast and manage something that looks good, right and atmospheric.  DA II certainly failed in this.
...Depends on genre, surely. Arcade beat em ups and such are more acommodating environments for..velocities DA II attempted.

I consider it odd few people somehow view slow (melee)  combat a bad thing by default. If your video game has melee combat, surely sense of things being physical, blows connecting having actual force behind them is among best things such combat can offer?

Modifié par LTD, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:08 .

[Pzykozis]

Maclimes wrote...

LTD wrote...
And yet, some people prefer latter:(    Hey some people, DA II is partially  YOUR FAULT, you hear me?!  If that doesn't keep you awake at nights I don't know what does! 

Logic is not your strong point, is it?

You basically said, "Hey, people who enjoy DA2! You should feel bad that it's your fault the game exists!" But those people ENJOYED THE GAME. Why would they feel bad?

Clearly have such bad taste that it went back in time to sucker punch me with things that i like as punishment for having bad taste.

It works out if you have blind hatred of something strong enough to the point where you can't believe anyone likes it and they just play it out of some sort of self loathing.. but vegas and acid goes well together so meh.

I've said before I'd love a more action based combat and to me that's far more realistic than clicking on something and having auto attack sort it out for you. Just make combat fun really. I enjoyed the core combat system of 2 mostly due to the pace changes (since fundementally its pretty much the same) but the encounters were fairly.. uhh lacking? and Origins lacked with pacing (pretty much same combat system though as I said, (although far easier)) but had better encounter design.

Hopefully for once the twain shall meet.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sidney wrote...

Really, and YOU criticize others? DAO's combat looked like you had two sets of somnambulists out there going at it because they seems to encounter each other more by chance than by design and once they do I've seen dances take less time before someone hits.

DAO's encounter design was much better than DA2's
DA's2 mechanics (speed, combos) were better than DAO's

Only the 2H auto-attack is DAO was as slow as you describe.  None of the activated abilities were that slow (and, to be effective, a 2H warrior had to be using activated abilities basically all of the time).

The one-handed and dual-wield animations were not slow.  They were just about the perfect speed.

And I can't agree with you on the combos.  DA2's combat moved too quickly to be able to use the combos effectively (I thought), and DAO's spell combos were far more tacitcally useful.

[Il Divo]

LTD wrote...

I consider it odd few people somehow view slow (melee)  combat a bad thing by default. If your video game has melee combat, surely sense of things being physical, blows connecting having actual force behind them is among best things such combat can offer?

If anything, I prefer slow combat animations. Or to be more clear, games which try to show the weight required to effectively wield certain weapons. Dark Souls has great slow combat. Assassin's Creed 2 heavy weapons have great slow-kill animations. DA:O has bland slow combat. That's the key point of difference. I kill someone in the former two games and my initial thought is "Wow, that must have hurt". Not the case with the latter.

Modifié par Il Divo, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:13 .

[LTD]

Il Divo wrote...

LTD wrote...

I consider it odd few people somehow view slow (melee)  combat a bad thing by default. If your video game has melee combat, surely sense of things being physical, blows connecting having actual force behind them is among best things such combat can offer?

If anything, I prefer slow combat animations. Or to be more clear, games which try to show the weight required to effectively wield certain weapons. Dark Souls has great slow combat. Assassin's Creed 2 heavy weapons have great slow-kill animations. DA:O has bland slow combat. That's the key point of difference. I kill someone in the former two games and my initial thought is "Wow, that must have hurt". Not the case with the latter.

Pretty much nodding along here with everything you said save for the last few sentences, I thought combat/combat animation in DA:O offered healthy supply of " OH YEAH!!221" moments you described.
.....Not claiming DAO combat in this regard  were manna from heavens or anything, but it surely had taken number of steps to right direction.

[Plaintiff]

LTD wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

LTD wrote...
And yet, some people prefer latter:(    Hey some people, DA II is partially  YOUR FAULT, you hear me?!  If that doesn't keep you awake at nights I don't know what does! 

Logic is not your strong point, is it?

You basically said, "Hey, people who enjoy DA2! You should feel bad that it's your fault the game exists!" But those people ENJOYED THE GAME. Why would they feel bad?

DA II has brought only strife and misery to this world. All it takes is an intact moral compass to feel guilt and shame for liking it and/or promoting it.

If people like it, then how can it have brought "strife and misery"?

I can't tell if you're trolling, or if you really are this biased.

[LTD]

Plaintiff wrote...

LTD wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

LTD wrote...
And
yet, some people prefer latter:(    Hey some people, DA II is
partially  YOUR FAULT, you hear me?!  If that doesn't keep you awake at
nights I don't know what does! 

Logic is not your strong point, is it?

You
basically said, "Hey, people who enjoy DA2! You should feel bad that
it's your fault the game exists!" But those people ENJOYED THE GAME. Why
would they feel bad?

DA II has brought only
strife and misery to this world. All it takes is an intact moral compass
to feel guilt and shame for liking it and/or promoting it.

If people like it, then how can it have brought "strife and misery"?

I can't tell if you're trolling, or if you really are this biased.

Usually when person is suggesting you should feel shame for liking a perfectly average normal main stream shovelware action RPG , it is unwise to take it in too literal fasion. : ) It is just a video game we speak of here!

Edit,
Emphasis on "usually" Obviously DA2 was so disappointing and of such horrible taste in numerous ways that you should indeed literally and sincerely FEEL BAD if it left a positive aftertaste in your mouth.

Modifié par LTD, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:29 .

[Il Divo]

LTD wrote...

Pretty much nodding along here with everything you said save for the last few sentences, I thought combat/combat animation in DA:O offered healthy supply of " OH YEAH!!221" moments you described.
.....Not claiming DAO combat in this regard  were manna from heavens or anything, but it surely had taken number of steps to right direction.

Can't say there was anything in the DA:O animations which I applauded, outside from executions. Those were phenomenal and very much in keeping with what I love about Dark Souls and Assassin's Creed, but they were the exception. But the autoattack? Hell no in my book. This was most obvious playing an Arcane Warrior, which has a huge emphasis on autoattack, at least when not casting spells. Both dual-wielding and sword and shield were composed entirely of awkward animations where the player hits the darkspawn/enemy/whatever ad infinitum without a suitable reaction. It's as if the enemy in question doesn't register my character is actually stabbing him until his HP hits 0 and it's time for him to die.

Great animations were the rule in AC2 and Dark Souls. They are the exception in DA:O, which also has some atrocious movement animations.

Modifié par Il Divo, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:29 .

[Dreadstruck]

Don't necessarily need anything realistic, I just want some more AUTHENTIC looking animations and pace.
Something between DA:O and DA2. But as we may know, the *middle ground" never, ever happens.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .

[LTD]

I seem to remember really disliking Arcane Warrior as well. It just isn't as satisfying class as pure war or mage. Auto attack based DPS has issues more severe than the animation! But yeah.

....Upon meditating on my hatred of DA2 combat further, I think it is pause mode that destroys it so utterly. If you play on any of the  higher difficulty levels  you end up pausing the game quite often. Frequent, complete pauses followed by quick sprees of  ultra fast combat/movement and lazy animation just feels wrong. Maybe DA2 combat would feel more at home if you promised yourself never to pause the game, left your NPC party on autopilot and adjusted difficulty level accordingly. Ofc, this makes it sound less and less like a game I'd care to play but hay.

Modifié par LTD, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Avalla'ch wrote...

But as we may know, the *middle ground" never, ever happens.

Hegelian dialectic to the rescue!

[TheRealJayDee]

I can't really describe just how much I dislike the combat animations in DA2, especially the rogues'. They did a huge part in drastically changing the atmosphere of the whole setting. For me, at least. I can't really say anything to all the people who still can't grasp that although a world has magic and dragons in it there are still rules that apply. "DA haz elves"  does not mean "anything goes". Sadly these rules seem to have changed from the first to the second game.

Whatever they do now with Inquisition,  I hope they stick with it for the rest of the franchise (if there are more DA games after it). If it's close® to DA2 style that's a point against DA3 for me, but at least I know what they want from their world.

[Realmzmaster]

The interesting point about rules is that someone gets to make them and what are those rules.Should we apply your rules, my rules, Sylvius the Mad's rules, Bioware's rules, Maclimes's rules, Plaintiff's rules or is there a set of standard rules on which everything is measured?

One game does not set the rules in stone.

[TheRealJayDee]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The interesting point about rules is that someone gets to make them and what are those rules.Should we apply your rules, my rules, Sylvius the Mad's rules, Bioware's rules, Maclimes's rules, Plaintiff's rules or is there a set of standard rules on which everything is measured?

One game does not set the rules in stone.

Well, if they'd let me decide the rules and the asthetics going with it I could definitely say which way they would go on the "Game of Thrones/Naruto" scale. Based on the way I got to know the setting in DA:O, that is. But it's not up to me to decide how Dragon Age looks and feels, ultimately it's Boware's. I have my preference, and I'd like to know if there is a consensus on this within the DA team and if so what it is.
 
I actually think I had a similar discussion with a dev/writer (Gaider?) at some point... can't remember how it went, though...

[KiwiQuiche]

I think many of the people here who want 'realistic medieval combat like DAO had' don't have any idea what medieval combat was like. :| Do some research, folks.

[Maclimes]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The interesting point about rules is that someone gets to make them and what are those rules.Should we apply your rules, my rules, Sylvius the Mad's rules, Bioware's rules, Maclimes's rules, Plaintiff's rules or is there a set of standard rules on which everything is measured?

One game does not set the rules in stone.

Clearly, we should use mine. Duh.

[Sidney]

LTD wrote...

I consider it odd few people somehow view slow (melee)  combat a bad thing by default. If your video game has melee combat, surely sense of things being physical, blows connecting having actual force behind them is among best things such combat can offer?

Haven't watched a lot of actual melee combat have you? It isn't that slow. Guys don't move at speeds so you can easily see the sword swing...it tends to get things blocked. DAO is like watching an American 80's action film - slow uninteresting action that is clumsily staged.

I'm less concerned about the presenation of the animations - take it or leave the way DAO did blood bags and whatnot- but more concerned about making sure that guys move and attack targets ina way that makes sense. The shuffle prevented that. No combat system where two guys with sheilds blocking a doorway can never stop an enemy from walking past them is a fatally flawed combat system. DAO was just such a system.

[Vicious]

Need moar Skyrim in my DA3.