328 réponses à ce sujet

[Lennard Testarossa]

If you were very good at it in Origins, it's most likley you're going to be good at it in DA2 also. If you're good at a game, you want it to be more challenging for you, thus the option for difficulty.

Frankly, Origins was far too easy on nightmare, DA2 far too annoying with those random immunities for no ingame reason.

[mad825]

Couldn't care about the ice caking. A decently designed battle system is all that's needed.

[Rawgrim]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I have swung a sword plenty. Got 2 of them. You can swing them pretty fast. But swinging the sword 10 times in 2 seconds is rather dumb. Thats just frantic waving. I also had bayonette training in the army. Guess what.? When I poked my opponent with it, he didn`t explode.

Citation needed. Or are you complaining about the special Berserker/Reaver specialty abilities that increases attack speed? I see nothing wrong with using a specific power (with a cost) to increase attack speed for a limited time.

Button Mashing?

Auto attacks with two-handed weapons normally swing at roughly five times every three seconds at maximum speed. You claim they swung 3 times faster than that in an effort to exaggerate your point.

5 times in 3 seconds iw WAY too fast anyway. But my point is you can even make it faster just by manually attacking.

[ScarMK]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

If you were very good at it in Origins, it's most likley you're going to be good at it in DA2 also. If you're good at a game, you want it to be more challenging for you, thus the option for difficulty.

Frankly, Origins was far too easy on nightmare, DA2 far too annoying with those random immunities for no ingame reason.

So damn true.  DA ][ was harder than origins but for bad reasons.  Infloated hp, the random immunties, (I'm to believe that a small crime group is able to afford cold/fire resistant uniforms for EVERY one of their soldiers?),  and rogues getting invicincibility frames during and a second or two after cloaking.  Just to name a few.  enemies using HP potions was a nice touch but combined with the bloated health, it became more of a chore than Origins ever was.

[Rawgrim]

simfamSP wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Aulis Vaara wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

No. I nearly died of boredom when I tried to replay DAO because the combat was so bloody monotonous. I liked DA2 style a lot more.

How? DA2's combat was way more boring, in my humble opinion. There was no thinking involved, no planning,

Yeah there was if you played on nightmare.

So we must go the highest difficulty to make the player think?

What the hell?

If you were very good at it in Origins, it's most likley you're going to be good at it in DA2 also. If you're good at a game, you want it to be more challenging for you, thus the option for difficulty.

So if you are good at a tactical game, you automatically get good at a hack and slash action game?

[Berty213]

Yea, no more ninja rubbish please..........unless we are going to play as a ninja.........

Modifié par Berty213, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:37 .

[Cimeas]

What if Thedas is just a world in which people can slash a sword 10 times in 2 seconds or whatever.
what if that's part of the fantasy?

[Iosev]

The aspect of combat that I enjoyed the most from Dragon Age 2 is its responsiveness in regards to attack and ability activation. For example, when you select a target to attack, and if you're within a close-enough amount of distance, a melee character would lunge forward to initiate attack, rather than slowly walk up before attacking (something that I really disliked about the combat in DA:O).

[philippe willaume]

Hello
DA:0 and DA:2 combat system are not fundamentally different.
according to what class and what party you play either DA:0 or DA:2 will be monotonous and boring.
So instead of that what i experience hence the opposite side must be talking out of their rectum.
Why not listen to what that other side has to say and even in a feat of crazy, try it in the game.

Can we really disagree that a DA:0 run sith two mages is just as tedious as a run with a vanguard berserker in DA:2?
Regardless how we are looking at it DA:0 features were much more friendly to sub-optimal build than DA:2 will ever be.
this is due to dual specialization, in play scenery scale and usability as well as companion control and ability to scout hence to plan. this is why DA:0 feels and is more tactical that DA:2 ever be.
That does not prevent DA:2 tactics script to be much better than those in DA:0

Now we can't disagree with people that complains about the poky-poky mage combat animation in DA:0 and we can't disagree with the sheer laugh-ability of cheerleader staff twirling, BFS and anime animation of DA:2. We were only missing running holding the sword back and bad lip synch to have all the clichés.
If we are honest with ourselves both game were easy in nightmare, and it is for the same reason: the difficulty does not scales with the power power, it just has different in-game consequences.

Instead of seeing thing in DA:0 or DA:2 flavours my it is time to see them in terms of what matters to us.
I'd like a more action oriented combat, event flight simulator/Squad based FPS like provided.
that i have the ability:

To build my char and my companions according to the role I see them in (and not necessarily in term of optimum build) . that is the reason of my sub optimal in DA:0.

To use the different tactics for a given char according to the situation (and not using monolithic one super trick pony build) and being about to use the terrain and my companion in a rationalized and determinism tactical manner based on intelligence gathering.

Phil
ps for the love of whatever entity that you may happen to believe in, no more FBS please.

[Rawgrim]

Cimeas wrote...

What if Thedas is just a world in which people can slash a sword 10 times in 2 seconds or whatever.
what if that's part of the fantasy?

If you could do that in the first game, yes. Allthough you couldn`t so it goes against the lore of the game...

[Lenimph]

No

[Rawgrim]

Filament wrote...

lol, the animation style of the first game is part of the 'lore' now.

Well...if my dalish warden could leap 70 through the air, like Talis can(no magic involved), then the Deep Roads would have been alot easier, wouldn`t they? Sadly; gravity is a part of the setting. It kills Riordan, for example. So yes. Laws of physics, unless stated otherwise, falls under the lore of a fantasy setting. Common Knowledge, and all that.

[Zjarcal]

So taking arrows in the head, being set on fire, being chewed by dragons, and then merrilly going on as if nothing happened is realistic? Lol.

Neither DAO or DA2 had realistic combat and DA3 won't have it either.

[mousestalker]

Rawgrim wrote...

Cimeas wrote...

What if Thedas is just a world in which people can slash a sword 10 times in 2 seconds or whatever.
what if that's part of the fantasy?

If you could do that in the first game, yes. Allthough you couldn`t so it goes against the lore of the game...

Ferelden is considered a bit of a backwater, you know. Maybe the folks in Kirkwall just have mad crazy skillz?

Modifié par mousestalker, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:58 .

[Rawgrim]

Zjarcal wrote...

So taking arrows in the head, being set on fire, being chewed by dragons, and then merrilly going on as if nothing happened is realistic? Lol.

Neither DAO or DA2 had realistic combat and DA3 won't have it either.

You did get injuries when you got knocked out, though. i belive i got a cracked skull and a broken arm after i got chewed by a dragon.

[philippe willaume]

Rawgrim wrote...

Filament wrote...

lol, the animation style of the first game is part of the 'lore' now.

Well...if my dalish warden could leap 70 through the air, like Talis can(no magic involved), then the Deep Roads would have been alot easier, wouldn`t they? Sadly; gravity is a part of the setting. It kills Riordan, for example. So yes. Laws of physics, unless stated otherwise, falls under the lore of a fantasy setting. Common Knowledge, and all that.

only when the ceilling is not low bro:D

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Yes almost anything is better than DA2's "Button Awesome". It was a noble idea whose execution was less than successful.

[thats1evildude]

Rawgrim wrote...

You did get injuries when you got knocked out, though. i belive i got a cracked skull and a broken arm after i got chewed by a dragon.

The injuries were never commensurate with the damage you should be realistically taking. In DAO, if you got stabbed ten times and set on fire, you'd just wake up with a skinned knee or a bruised vulva. If I got stabbed ten times and set on fire in real life, I'd wake up with a case of DEAD.

[Sejborg]

I still don't understand why Bioware decided to make the combat look stupid in DA2. Has Bioware explained why?

[AntiChri5]

I have to laugh at the idea of Origins combat being realistic or difficult.

Lelianna sings a bard song to inspire the troops.......by throwing back her head and screaming while farting out a purple mist!
Oh no, an enemy is closing in on the archer! Quick, get them to make a wolf appear out of nowhere!
Whats that? Get set on fire? No matter, drink a poultice!
Oh look, a group of enemies! Quick, get the archer to stun them all with a single arrow!
And then fire a few arrows into the air, making thousands rain down on them!

[Rawgrim]

thats1evildude wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

You did get injuries when you got knocked out, though. i belive i got a cracked skull and a broken arm after i got chewed by a dragon.

The injuries were never commensurate with the damage you should be realistically taking. In DAO, if you got stabbed ten times and set on fire, you'd just wake up with a skinned knee or a bruised vulva. If I got stabbed ten times and set on fire in real life, I'd wake up with a case of DEAD.

Surviving 10 stabs is more belivable than being stabbed 5000 times (Arishok), though.

Or being stabbed by a dagger and just explode from the stab.

[thats1evildude]

Rawgrim wrote...

Surviving 10 stabs is more belivable than being stabbed 5000 times (Arishok), though.

The qunari are more resilient and powerful than mortal men. The Arishok was the strongest of all qunari. I don't take issue with his ability to take 5,000 hits, as you put it.

Would you prefer we not use an Hit Points-based system? There are more "realistic" combat systems, though those usually entail retiring a character the moment he takes an arrow to an knee, as the saying goes. As such, they're not very fun.

Rawgrim wrote...

Or being stabbed by a dagger and just explode from the stab.

I hear that frequently mentioned, but I have never encountered it myself. After the patch, the only time enemies ever exploded in my game was with a particularly deadly cross-class combo, like Winter's Grasp + Punishing Lance.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:03 .

[Unknown_Warrior]

The strawmanning and exaggeration in this thread. Woah boy.

Also, OP, please don't use "realistic". Because it isn't. In any way or form. Even excluding all the talents and magic, DAO was not "realistic". You managed to construct a thread title that contained no less than three pet peeves of mine; exaggeration, thinking using realistic because every other medium portrays in that way is justified and foregoing fun in favour of realism.

Personally, I prefer DA2's combat over DAO's. DAO was just way too easy. Yeh sure, some encounters were troublesome, but all you needed was Mana Clash to get rid of every pesky mage within the vincinity, trap your enemies with any form of trapping spell/talent you had in your array and wail at them with your, rather slow, attacks. DAA was even more of a joke when I found myself literally having to crank up the difficulty to Nightmare to have any sense of accomplishment as my characters dished out frankly inappropiate amounts of damage (I played PS3, so I reckon PC is ever easier?).

DA2 was harder, but not in the good way. Wave combat made for rather cheap deaths, your party members being limited to a single "role" meant there wasn't much room for interesting combat and there were no real monsters that required thinking or caution (with exception of Hybris or the High Dragon).
That is, of course, vanilla DA2. Legacy was TREMENDUOUSLY fun and the combat felt more intuitive and responsive than ever. Mark of the Assassin was also better in this aspect. The Alpha Wyvern was actually a lot harder than I thought it would be.
Malvernis and Sky Horror were, without a doubt, the most challenged I've found myself in any Dragon Age game so far.

So yeah. DLC's showed me how things could be. DAA may be too easy, but that was only because you had ridiculous amounts of options to deck out your party. Warrior Archer? Check. Melee Mage? Check. Defensive Rogue? Check. DA2 vanilla may be a bad example, but its DLC showed me that it can do good combat.

To wrap it up; ideally: DA2 combat (maybe a bit slowed down?) with DAA-levels of characters customisation.

[philippe willaume]

Sure and if the combat in DA was "realist" you would have lots of rogue with no hands because when you are fighting someone the a two handed long sword (ie a much longer weapon that is a good chopper and thrusters) with one or two ridiculously short weapon you have to expose your hands.

You could not get in full plate on your own.
you would not use a shield with plate because it is as useful as a chocolate fire guard
and fighting some in armour with dagger and bikini will end up with a bikini on a cadaver 99.9% of the time.

What Rawgrim means is that the animation and effect of DA:0 fits the setting more than the animation and effect in DA:2.

it is really silly to argue DA:0 vs DA:2 "realism" when they are both based on hit point per level system.

Modifié par philippe willaume, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:03 .