61 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravenmyste]

N7Kopper wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

I think it's a terrible decision from Bioware. Leading the enemies away is a good, logical strategy. Making the enemies camp there, waiting to finish you in the last second is f*cking cheap.

We asked for smarter AI.
Apparently forgetting that smarter AI will camp vital objectives - as that is the thing a player would do in the same situation.

no there  smart. then there just pure  trolling us with death but if makes everyone those  non missle users start to use missle then so be it i been  always known to clear out a area near the lz zone when it comes to extraction with missles  towards the ending when they start pumping out nothing but brutes/atlases and scions,pret,primes and pryos banshees.. not once do they uses missiles when there more mini bosses and bosses on the board

[Ziegrif]

dumdum2 wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

I'm usually the last on the LZ so I haven't noticed this.
I did notice that Collectors will happily make the LZ or hack circle their love nest.

Then do a solo on Gold and see for yourself 

I did I have the banner.
I did see a few phantoms but none of them were in the LZ.
Personally during solos I missile run to the LZ.

[neteng101]

dumdum2 wrote...

We asked for smarter AI, not psychic AI. There's really no way for the enemies to know that you are about to get extracted or doing a device objective, yet they still camp at those spots.

Difficulty comes the cheap way from Bioware - be it Dragoons or psychic AI or stunlocking Geth or the travesty of a map now called Glacier.

I never asked for smarter AI either, maybe some of you did, but knowing Bioware its just better not to bother asking.

[tjh_ca]

Haven't noticed this myself. I did have a match recently where all my team dropped out (don't know if disconnected or quit), so I was alone on the extraction wave. Had everything kiting nicely away from the LZ until the matchmaking system decided to drop someone new into the game with 30-40 sec left - watched them all turn around and go to the LZ to greet him. Oh well, a couple of missiles solved the problem.

[Ziegrif]

dumdum2 wrote...

We asked for smarter AI, not psychic AI. There's really no way for the enemies to know that you are about to get extracted or doing a device objective, yet they still camp at those spots.

Psychic AI?
That actually sounds kinda familiar when you think about it.
Now where have I heard that before?



Oh yeah!
Oblivion.
It was a bad idea there and it's a bad idea here.

Personally if were going the explain dis stuff route they're camping exits, hack devices because it's basic strategy 101.
If you hold a point of intrests of course the enemy is going to come back for it.
Split your forces and hold the points. No need to over exert yourself when the targets coming back anyway.

But if they left to look for you after a period of time say 20-30 seconds it'd be more ''fair''.

[McAllyster]

joker_jack wrote...

They want you to use real money to buy packs simple as that.

QFT.

Before the DLC I almost never used any consumables at Bronze / Silver. Not I have to use them more often especially against Collectors.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Psychic AI? Referring to what, Dragoons ignoring tac cloak?

[zerothirteen]

you must be kidding, tho gotta go check it out.

however, if true im amazed.

How on earth if question is " how to make defending LZ more viable option than staying away from it" is the answer "make enemy camp LZ!!"?

if you have something that players do because it is valid tactic and want to change that, you obviously have two ways: either artificially make their way the harder option, or make using the method you want them to go EASIER. ONE of these options is player-friendly and makes game fun to play, one of them is player-hating riot fence tactic and just sets arbitrary blocks to gameplay. well guess what would BW choose?

Because the "never use LZ" wouldnt be there in the first place if the entire gameplay is focused on "never defend, always attack!" but if instead the gameplay would allow any kind of solid defense.

[zerothirteen]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

Psychic AI? Referring to what, Dragoons ignoring tac cloak?

Dragooon oncluding tac cloak, enemy nades changing course midair, praetorian buttlazer, you take your pick.

[AsheraII]

The trick seems to be not to hold the landingzone, but a perimeter just outside it. Close enough to prevent the enemy from spawning there, but also far enough that they won't reach you anymore once you make your final retreat.

For example, on Ghost you'll want to park at the entrances to the buildings just above the LZ, and if possible also someone holding out in that elevated building on the right side. If you fall back at around 15-20 seconds before extraction, no enemies will reach you anymore. The ammo box on the left side will also be nicely under control. The defender in the right hand building might need a supply of missiles though.

Giant is similar: a layered defense just in front of the circle, 2 players at the front wall with sight down the slope, 2 behind the low wall behind them. The ammo box at the LZ still nicely in reach. You can get flanked here by enemies coming through the building, but that will mostly be smaller units: the bigger ones can't climb ladders.

[N7 Whiskey]

Some enemies may be camping the LZ but that is still way better than the entire Cerberus army coming at you in a weak defense point.

[SgtAmazing]

I was playing a gold the other day on Firebase Giant / Cerberus. My three teammates ran to the extraction point, I ran to the opposite corner of the map. It was clear at first, but after about 15 seconds two atlus' and 4 phantoms spawned close by. I have seen this several times since I started to play again last week. I don't believe drawing the enemy away works with all the "corrective action" Bioware has taken to stop people from gold farming.

[Volkai7]

You maybe want the enemies to roll out a red carpet on the path to the extraction point? Of course they're going to try and prevent your safe departure.

And now, after hundreds upon hundreds of sorties against the N7 forces, they're a little smarter about it.

[Zero132132]

When soloing, holding the zone for two minutes won't work, but I do give myself a bit more lead time on it now. And yeah, it's weird that enemies will camp objectives now. I've noticed that it's harder to lead them away from whoever's handling the objective, too. Used to be easier to draw enemy fire away from the guy crouching for 10 seconds on the device thing.

EDIT: Also will say this; with a team, some LZs are actually very defensible, and I'm confused about why the team wouldn't just go there and hold the line. Sometimes, it seems like PUGs have the two exactly backwards. They'll try to hold the LZ on places like Goddess, Condor, or Reactor, and places like Giant (fairly defensible, at least) and White, they'll hold an area that's a bit away, and enemies they kill end up spawning in places that'll get between them and a sensible escape.

Modifié par Zero132132, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:29 .

[Uh Cold]

cryptc wrote...

"time to head for the lz" *staggered staggered staggered staggered* MISSION FAILED

I know dat feel.

[Freeze_Star]

I was playing solo silver against Collectors on Ghost yesterday. Not only did they camp the LZ, they refused to move from one of the devices on an objective wave. They only thing that was concerned with killing me were seeker swarms and abominations.

[Lajkos]

N7Kopper wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

I think it's a terrible decision from Bioware. Leading the enemies away is a good, logical strategy. Making the enemies camp there, waiting to finish you in the last second is f*cking cheap.

We asked for smarter AI.
Apparently forgetting that smarter AI will camp vital objectives - as that is the thing a player would do in the same situation.

This, I like that they start camping "key spots" and not just run around with a kill kill kill mindset

[VaultingFrog]

I too have noticed that mooks tend to camp in particular areas instead of giving chase. Kind of sucks when your doing a solo 1234.

[capn233]

I don't recall Phantoms camping the LZ.

What does make Cerberus extraction slightly more difficult is that if you go away from the LZ, you will have Dragoons on you in less than 10s on practically any map.

[BongMong]

The AI may be seen as unrealistic or 'cheap' or 'psychic' for camping objectives and extraction points, and it is, but you need to remember that the AI has to compete with cheap players who don't understand how an RPG works. I see players frequently using OC knowledge of spawn points to go camp them and kill all the enemys as they spawn, giving them no chance at all. Unfortunately we get the AI we deserve.

I suggest we all suddenly remember how to role play and stop our own cheap spawn camping tactics. Perhaps then BW will not need to come up with these 'psychic AI' work-arounds to keep the AI competitive.

[Epique Phael767]

Still works for me, but then again I keep them spread out by zipping all over the map.

[Zero132132]

BongMong wrote...

The AI may be seen as unrealistic or 'cheap' or 'psychic' for camping objectives and extraction points, and it is, but you need to remember that the AI has to compete with cheap players who don't understand how an RPG works. I see players frequently using OC knowledge of spawn points to go camp them and kill all the enemys as they spawn, giving them no chance at all. Unfortunately we get the AI we deserve.

I suggest we all suddenly remember how to role play and stop our own cheap spawn camping tactics. Perhaps then BW will not need to come up with these 'psychic AI' work-arounds to keep the AI competitive.

So what you're saying is that collections of decision-making algorithms that only interact with the world for a few minutes at most is equally important to the people playing the games? Okay...

Also, if you camp on top of a spawn point, enemies won't spawn there, so that's kind of a thing...

Modifié par Zero132132, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:24 .

[King Ptolemy IV]

I remember a pug game on reactor gold when I basically watched from the other side of the reactor while one by one my teammates were grabbed by banshees. I warned them and they didn't listen so I laughed. Got back to extraction with 2 seconds left while all the enemies were circling around.

[metaempiricist]

huge news guys it's hard to hold lz with random players on gold...shocker