You don't hear me ranting about Castillon, do you?Honestly, you apply a ridiculous double standard. Had it been a human and wasn't Tevinter a land ruled by magisters, you wouldn't be silenced about it.
The magisters say that they serve the greater good. I have no doubt that plenty believe it; it's the easiest way to justify one's actions.No, they don't. The magisters don't give two toughts to morality. They only care about themselves.
MisterJB wrote...
hhh89 wrote...
Lambert never was a member of the Tevinter society, and Fenris couldn't have known every magister.
Lambert
was a member of Tevinter society, in fact. He was stationed as a
templar in the Tevinter Circle and saw the mages regaining the power.
You do realize what avoiding a war means, right? It's not having the Seekers and the templars fighting in the streets of Kirkwall.Xilizhra wrote...
She should have informed Leliana if Meredith was that out of control, and reassured Orsino that the Divine's forces would be coming to remove her. She didn't. She approved of Meredith's actions by her lack of such.
And as we all know, all templars deserve to die, right?All we saw were templars.
And as we all know, she did an absolutely bang-up job of avoiding the war, didn't she? Is there a Nobel Peace Prize one can give to ash on the wind?You do realize what avoiding a war means, right? It's not having the Seekers and the templars fighting in the streets of Kirkwall.
Arguably, the mages were as out of control as Meredith.
No one deserves to die, but the templars are enemy soldiers.And as we all know, all templars deserve to die, right?
Who talks about Castillion? He is not involved with any of the major factions in Thedas and you don't romance Isabela.Xilizhra wrote...
You don't hear me ranting about Castillon, do you?
The magisters lie and they know it. Explain to me how bleeding little boys at parties serves the greater good.The magisters say that they serve the greater good. I have no doubt that plenty believe it; it's the easiest way to justify one's actions.
Xilizhra wrote...
And as we all know, she did an absolutely bang-up job of avoiding the war, didn't she? Is there a Nobel Peace Prize one can give to ash on the wind?You do realize what avoiding a war means, right? It's not having the Seekers and the templars fighting in the streets of Kirkwall.
Arguably, the mages were as out of control as Meredith.
Modifié par hhh89, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:50 .
Let's praise the warmongering terrorists instead.Xilizhra wrote...
And as we all know, she did an absolutely bang-up job of avoiding the war, didn't she? Is there a Nobel Peace Prize one can give to ash on the wind?
Only if the mages turn them into such like what Anders did.No one deserves to die, but the templars are enemy soldiers.
Comparable to a weapons check. Ensuring that one's powers are still active in case of, say, qunari attack (and we know Danarius has been on Seheron's front lines), in addition to a show of power to hopefully reduce the inclination of other magisters to try to unseat oneself and institute their clearly inferior policies.The magisters lie and they know it. Explain to me how bleeding little boys at parties serves the greater good.
Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:57 .
She could have ejected Meredith and removed Anders' main incentive for Kirkwall.The trigger of the war was Elthina's death, and even after the event of Kirkwall the Circles voted against the separation from the Chantry (or so I read, correct me if I'm wrong). How could she prevent a war when her own death is the trigger?
They've been enemy soldiers for a thousand years.Only if the mages turn them into such like what Anders did.
Xilizhra wrote...
I've so far screwed over one magister, killed two others, and never done a damned thing to harm the Chantry itself. Remember that.
And we know the Chantry, much better than we know Tevinter. I'm not advocating believing the best of them, I'm just not making a judgment on them at this time.
According to Lambert, the mages regained power little by little. It started with nominating a mage as the Black Divine and it all wen downhill from there.hhh89 wrote...
Thanks, I didn't know that. But how were thr mages regaining the power? In Tevinter they already held power.
Modifié par MisterJB, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:50 .
Xilizhra wrote...
Comparable to a weapons check. Ensuring that one's powers are still active in case of, say, qunari attack (and we know Danarius has been on Seheron's front lines), in addition to a show of power to hopefully reduce the inclination of other magisters to try to unseat oneself and institute their clearly inferior policies.The magisters lie and they know it. Explain to me how bleeding little boys at parties serves the greater good.
The Chantry allows slavery in Antiva, fingers-crossed-totally-not-slavery in Orlais, and vicious anti-elven bigotry everywhere. And the Chantry started out decayed and corrupt, as one emperor's power play, with it just sucking in people with good intentions, like some kind of religious black hole.But from a lore perspective, this conversation is about the fact that the Tevinter Imperium is vile and corrupt in ways that the Chantry never dreamed of being. Theirs is the slow decay of what were once good intentions and the creeping in of abuses that should never have been allowed. The idea that, as you said, some sacrifices must sometimes be made for the cause (in their case, preventing the abuses of the Divine Age). In the Tevinter Imperium, we see the systematic encouragement of the weak preying on the strong because they feel priviledged enough to get away with it.
Remember, this is how they would see it, not me. But it's possible to see it that way.... this is revolting.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:53 .
Anders is an unresonable man who believes all templars are like Ser Alrik. He would have never been statisfied until the Circle was entirely dissolved and he would have started a war anyway to accomplish this.Xilizhra wrote...
She could have ejected Meredith and removed Anders' main incentive for Kirkwall.
They've been guardians and protectors of both mages and mundanes for a thousand years with some rough spots here and there.They've been enemy soldiers for a thousand years.
Lol spoken like a true politician.brushyourteeth wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Comparable to a weapons check. Ensuring that one's powers are still active in case of, say, qunari attack (and we know Danarius has been on Seheron's front lines), in addition to a show of power to hopefully reduce the inclination of other magisters to try to unseat oneself and institute their clearly inferior policies.The magisters lie and they know it. Explain to me how bleeding little boys at parties serves the greater good.
... this is revolting.
Xilizhra wrote...
She could have ejected Meredith and removed Anders' main incentive for Kirkwall.The trigger of the war was Elthina's death, and even after the event of Kirkwall the Circles voted against the separation from the Chantry (or so I read, correct me if I'm wrong). How could she prevent a war when her own death is the trigger?
This is ridiculous.brushyourteeth wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Comparable to a weapons check. Ensuring that one's powers are still active in case of, say, qunari attack (and we know Danarius has been on Seheron's front lines), in addition to a show of power to hopefully reduce the inclination of other magisters to try to unseat oneself and institute their clearly inferior policies.The magisters lie and they know it. Explain to me how bleeding little boys at parties serves the greater good.
... this is revolting.
Actually, David Gaider said that Kirkwall's mages weren't all that bad, Hawke just ran into a disproportionate amount of bad mages. Meredith was very far from the only problem, but her removal could have been a step to greater reform there. Especially for those who fetishize Justinia.Because the only reason of templar's actions in Kirkwall was because they were under Meredith's command. It's not like the Circle of Kirkwall was one of the worst for centuries, and templars held enough power to assassinate a Viscount and control another.
Templars and mages shown their worst side in Kirkwall, and Meredith isn't completely responsible for this. In Act 2 Ser Otto was more extremist than Meredith. Mages went on blood magic/abomination mode almost every time.
Well, obviously it's not the kid that was the object of impressiveness, it was the spell Danarius used. Whom he used for it was irrelevant.There is nothing challeging or impressive in bleeding a defenseless boy at a party. It was an act of cruelty, plain and simple.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:58 .
No, I know that. What I meant is how Lamber experienced this process, since it happened centuries ago. At the moment Lamber was born or became a templar, the magisters already held power.MisterJB wrote...
According to Lambert, the mages regained power little by little. It started with nominating a mage as the Black Divine and it all wen downhill from there.hhh89 wrote...
Thanks, I didn't know that. But how were thr mages regaining the power? In Tevinter they already held power.
Now, mages can just summon demons in the streets of Tevinter and there is nothing the templars can do.
Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:00 .
I'm taking your word on the Antiva thing, though I honestly can say I don't know a thing about it. Even if all those things are true (and I could talk about the elf situation, but it would derail everything - suffice it to say I think Flemeth has it right) - even if all those things about the Chantry are true, my point still stands: that it's nothing compared to the Tevinter Imperium.Xilizhra wrote...
The Chantry allows slavery in Antiva, fingers-crossed-totally-not-slavery in Orlais, and vicious anti-elven bigotry everywhere. And the Chantry started out decayed and corrupt, as one emperor's power play, with it just sucking in people with good intentions, like some kind of religious black hole.But from a lore perspective, this conversation is about the fact that the Tevinter Imperium is vile and corrupt in ways that the Chantry never dreamed of being. Theirs is the slow decay of what were once good intentions and the creeping in of abuses that should never have been allowed. The idea that, as you said, some sacrifices must sometimes be made for the cause (in their case, preventing the abuses of the Divine Age). In the Tevinter Imperium, we see the systematic encouragement of the weak preying on the strong because they feel priviledged enough to get away with it.
Point proven. The sour smell of Tevinter traditions.Remember, this is how they would see it, not me. But it's possible to see it that way.... this is revolting.
There is no legal slavery in any lands under Andrastian rule and this you have the Chantry to thank for.Xilizhra wrote...
The Chantry allows slavery in Antiva, fingers-crossed-totally-not-slavery in Orlais, and vicious anti-elven bigotry everywhere. And the Chantry started out decayed and corrupt, as one emperor's power play, with it just sucking in people with good intentions, like some kind of religious black hole.
Not sure what this means, or who it's directed to.The Hierophant wrote...
Lol spoken like a true politician.brushyourteeth wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Comparable to a weapons check. Ensuring that one's powers are still active in case of, say, qunari attack (and we know Danarius has been on Seheron's front lines), in addition to a show of power to hopefully reduce the inclination of other magisters to try to unseat oneself and institute their clearly inferior policies.The magisters lie and they know it. Explain to me how bleeding little boys at parties serves the greater good.
... this is revolting.
Obviously, any spell that only requires the blood of a child can't be that impressive to the leaders of an empire that bled hundreds of slaves to fuel an invasion into the Black City.Xilizhra wrote...
Well, obviously it's not the kid that was the object of impressiveness, it was the spell Danarius used. Whom he used for it was irrelevant.
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