190 réponses à ce sujet

[xassantex]

consumables by definition are made to be consumed. I hate having 255 friggin rockets in store.
sometimes i kill a swarmer with one, just to make sure it doesn't mess up my shield .

[upinya slayin]

parico wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

OuterRim wrote...

You gotta love the attitude here on the forums. OP has a point. the game is harder and everyone knows it, even if it isn't for you personally. Stick the Elitist attitudes and help the man out with some decent advice.

One thing OP, watch for the balance changes today - hopefully there will be some good news there for silver.

Its not an eiltesit attitude. Its a response to a post.

1st off BW stated they are looking into making silver and bronze eaiser and nobody has an issue with that.
secondly there is a difference between a post saying "hey i'm having toruble with silver lately, here i my manifest, can i get some help and suggestions" compared to one sayong "This game is too hard and its pissing me off" which one do you think will get more helpfull responses?

good points upinya.  The game is somewhat harder but I am back to being able to extract most of the time on gold (except pug collectors) and to not needing to use consumables anymore on silver.  These threads complaining about it need to stop.  Play a few games learn the nuances again and move on whining gets ya nowhere.  If you hate it that much take a break for a day or 2 and play something else. 

+1

[BouncyFrag]

Volkai7 wrote...

Derek Hollan on the intended challenge of each difficulty:

Here's what our thoughts were on difficulty:

Bronze: An introduction to MP. A brand new starting team with new accounts should be lucky to make it to wave 3. That was how it was at launch and that is still how we view it.

Silver: For veteran players with haf-decent gear and some levels under their belts.

Gold: For the absolute best with maxxed equipment. This is NOT meant to be easy at all for even the best players.

Platinum: Is simply added for people who want to show off and need a challenge well beyond Gold. This is NOT meant to be easy by any stretch and many deaths SHOULD be expected and extraction? Well, GOOD LUCK!

[N7Dropout1]

I wish we could choose from a list of open games. I've dropped into lobbies where people are just literally talking for 10 minutes about nothing. No readying up, just talking. Half the time it's disgusting racist trash as well.

[Dark Tlaloc]

Bathaius wrote...

It is harder. Some people love that. Others hate it.

I miss the old Cerberus. They were my favorite faction to play for a casual game.

Yeah, me too. I don't have many problems with Dragoons (I end up facing them a lot with characters who have a Scorpion equipped, so they just do a lot of hopping around), but I do find them kind of lame. I don't lame how little they stagger, and I think it's cheap that they can't be put in Stasis (being human, after all). As others have mentioned, their AI is also a little underwhelming.

[Ronnie Blastoff]

I like the additions BW has made, seems the only people complaining about things being harder are people who didn't belong in the difficulty they were in. I've been in gold/platinum and i'm still in gold/platinum, took me 1 day to adjust.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I just thought about something. Have you done a bronze Collectors game at level one? I have. Better hope you can trust your team, lol.

[Beerfish]

upinya slayin wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

NorthsidePK wrote...

 Seriously I have to use consumables on silver now?

I havent had an extraction on gold in a week!!???!?!

WTF happened???

I'm still playing the same....but all of a suddon everything is rediculously difficult!!

What is the deal with the dragoons???

On gold they give ya a bakers dozen at a time and you cannot outrun them even with a adrenaline amp

^(lil exaggeration there but they are very plentiful and very fast with no regard for themselves or cover)

A couple weeks ago I was having fun on gold, it was plenty difficult, but still fun.

Now silver is a chore....

Why was the game changed???

why do people complain about game difficulty???

that is why there are 4 levels of difficulty. play the one that is fun for you. some people will find platinum easy and some will find bronze hard. everyone is a diferent skill level. thats just the way it is and that won't change ever. IF silver is hard play bronze instead. whats the big deal?

The big deal?  Collectors on bronze at least = if not surpass cerberus on silver for difficulty.  some of you people (And I mean the very best players) have just totally lost sight of any levels below where they normally play.  The old adage of 'just play a level lower' is tough to swallow when that means 1/2 the credits, more use of consummables and thus the gap between good and medium players ever widening.

Previously a medium player could go to bronze, play games, get their 16,000 credits and use zero or one consummable in a match.  Now in some cases you need to use some consummables depending on the opponent and in a bad game use a lot of them.

There is no problem for really good players.  The problems are for really new players and 'on the dividing line' players.  Those that were bronze and some silver or silver and some gold.

Now they have been chucked down to bronze....and silver.

If the reward isn't as good as what you are used to and that is your only reason then you are playing for the grind not for fun. If it isn't fun why play? if you are having fun why does the reward matter? isn't the fun itself a reward? So what if you have to use a gel or something, so what if you have to step down a level. If they made a new diamond difficulty for 250k credits and i felt i wasn't good enough to play it i would just not play it. I wouldn't complain that some people are making more then me by playing diamond and i'm stuck on platinum. etc etc. I don't even play platinum too often. PUGs are horrible and i won't play a platinum that i have to solo every wave. I'll do it on gold but i have friends who are better and or equal players i am that won't even do a PUG gold , they'll only do silver cuase they don't liek having to solo half the waves in a gold match. So its only worth playing high difficulties with friends.

The point is the system isn't broken. rarely do i ever find a broken sysem, the broken part is always the people using the system. people feel they are entitiled to eveyrthing for free, have no patience, and don't want to work for anything. they always take the path thats the easiest. I understand everyone is limited to a point. I know there are players out there that i'll never be as good as, as well as players out there taht will never be as good as me. Thats part of eveyrhting. It would be like (sports reference coming through) mark sanchez complaining the NFL is too hard and brady is complaining its too easy so sanchez wants the rules changed to make the game eaiser for him but if they did that it might be soo easy for brady that he gets bored and quits lol

The point is they cna't taylor it for eveyrone. that is why there is different difficulties. pick the one that is teh most fun and forget about credits and unlocks

The system was not broken at all before the latest changes.  Now it is.  All factions are tougher.  One faction is very significantly more difficult.  Previously there was a decent economy of cost vs reward vs game play enjoyment that was well balanced for almost everyone. 

Brand new player?  Bronze.
Medium player with some experience, bronze for a relaxing no pressure game in which you can pad the bank account.
Good to elite player no problems at all, if anything not enough challenge.

Players on the fine line between bronze and silver and silver and gold could bop back and forth between the levels depending on if they wanted more challenge for higher creds or an easy game in which to just enjoy it and get 1005 sure fire creds.

That has all changed for the medium to lower players.  The good players are still going to be gold/plat players.  The on line players get dumped down a level.

Modifié par Beerfish, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:09 .

[Kingston Atticus]

NorthsidePK wrote...

tictactucrac wrote...

No.

You're doing it wrong.

Well I was doing it right and then it CHANGED...so I guess now I am doing it wrong....

Why is it always changing???

This is not the game I bought!!!

Funny I bought ME3 for single player, knowing it had an EXPERIMENTAL MP feature. Obviously you didn't realize it was their FIRST ME with an mp feature thus making MP EXPERIMENTAL?! That of course means we KNOW it will change!

Modifié par Kingston Atticus, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:11 .

[Beerfish]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

I just thought about something. Have you done a bronze Collectors game at level one? I have. Better hope you can trust your team, lol.

A higher level player would still win that with ease.  The reason?  They will play it as if they were soloing and would probably not use a ton of consummables.  A true test would have to be a player stepping down in class and using team play, even if it is ill conceived in a game.

[upinya slayin]

Beerfish wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

NorthsidePK wrote...

 Seriously I have to use consumables on silver now?

I havent had an extraction on gold in a week!!???!?!

WTF happened???

I'm still playing the same....but all of a suddon everything is rediculously difficult!!

What is the deal with the dragoons???

On gold they give ya a bakers dozen at a time and you cannot outrun them even with a adrenaline amp

^(lil exaggeration there but they are very plentiful and very fast with no regard for themselves or cover)

A couple weeks ago I was having fun on gold, it was plenty difficult, but still fun.

Now silver is a chore....

Why was the game changed???

why do people complain about game difficulty???

that is why there are 4 levels of difficulty. play the one that is fun for you. some people will find platinum easy and some will find bronze hard. everyone is a diferent skill level. thats just the way it is and that won't change ever. IF silver is hard play bronze instead. whats the big deal?

The big deal?  Collectors on bronze at least = if not surpass cerberus on silver for difficulty.  some of you people (And I mean the very best players) have just totally lost sight of any levels below where they normally play.  The old adage of 'just play a level lower' is tough to swallow when that means 1/2 the credits, more use of consummables and thus the gap between good and medium players ever widening.

Previously a medium player could go to bronze, play games, get their 16,000 credits and use zero or one consummable in a match.  Now in some cases you need to use some consummables depending on the opponent and in a bad game use a lot of them.

There is no problem for really good players.  The problems are for really new players and 'on the dividing line' players.  Those that were bronze and some silver or silver and some gold.

Now they have been chucked down to bronze....and silver.

If the reward isn't as good as what you are used to and that is your only reason then you are playing for the grind not for fun. If it isn't fun why play? if you are having fun why does the reward matter? isn't the fun itself a reward? So what if you have to use a gel or something, so what if you have to step down a level. If they made a new diamond difficulty for 250k credits and i felt i wasn't good enough to play it i would just not play it. I wouldn't complain that some people are making more then me by playing diamond and i'm stuck on platinum. etc etc. I don't even play platinum too often. PUGs are horrible and i won't play a platinum that i have to solo every wave. I'll do it on gold but i have friends who are better and or equal players i am that won't even do a PUG gold , they'll only do silver cuase they don't liek having to solo half the waves in a gold match. So its only worth playing high difficulties with friends.

The point is the system isn't broken. rarely do i ever find a broken sysem, the broken part is always the people using the system. people feel they are entitiled to eveyrthing for free, have no patience, and don't want to work for anything. they always take the path thats the easiest. I understand everyone is limited to a point. I know there are players out there that i'll never be as good as, as well as players out there taht will never be as good as me. Thats part of eveyrhting. It would be like (sports reference coming through) mark sanchez complaining the NFL is too hard and brady is complaining its too easy so sanchez wants the rules changed to make the game eaiser for him but if they did that it might be soo easy for brady that he gets bored and quits lol

The point is they cna't taylor it for eveyrone. that is why there is different difficulties. pick the one that is teh most fun and forget about credits and unlocks

The system was not broken at all before the latest changes.  Now it is.  All factions are tougher.  One faction is very significantly more difficult.  Previously there was a decent economy of cost vs reward vs game play enjoyment that was well balanced for almost everyone. 

Brand new player?  Bronze.
Medium player with some experience, bronze for a relaxing no pressure game in which you can pad the bank account.
Good to elite player no problems at all, if anything not enough challenge.

Players on the fine line between bronze and silver and silver and gold could bop back and forth between the levels depending on if they wanted more challenge for higher creds or an easy game in which to just enjoy it and get 1005 sure fire creds.

That has all changed for the medium to lower players.  The good players are still going to be gold/plat players.  The on line players get dumped down a level.

I know what your saying. And i'll just take it as the truth since i have no idea. But i still don't get why it is an issue other then less credits. and I don't see why credits are such a big deal?

[Arppis]

Why it bothers you that you have to use consumables? I have to use them more often too, but that's fine. I'll just buy packs when I need more of them.

[Kingston Atticus]

xassantex wrote...

consumables by definition are made to be consumed. I hate having 255 friggin rockets in store.
sometimes i kill a swarmer with one, just to make sure it doesn't mess up my shield .

Fun sn't it? I fired all five of mine on a gold a few days ago just to watch the booms. When my friends asked why the heck I was wasting them, I said " It's NOT a waste if you have them maxxed and they are MINE so if I want to watch the explosions I can. It's not my fault none of us had to use a missile that match and I wanted explosions! It happens. Especially when you know how to and do work with a TEAM like the Mp was made for.

[Kingston Atticus]

Arppis wrote...

Why it bothers you that you have to use consumables? I have to use them more often too, but that's fine. I'll just buy packs when I need more of them.

 He's probably one of those who believe the only packs to buy are PSPs. You would be surprised at how many newer players think that is ALL that should be bought! I remember when the game first came out and people realized it was smart to buy rookie packs and max a few weapons before even considering moving to silver. I still occasionally buy them. Obviously not for weapons since the only ones I need are URs, but if I just need a couple consumables it is cheaper to buy rookies. If you maxed missiles, thermal packs and ops packs just buy 2 vets your guaranteed atleast six consumables. so why not?

[Tonymac]

funny, I thought the game was easier on all difficulties now. Maybe its just me

[Miniditka77]

OK, so anyone who says the game isn't harder now is just full of crap.  I'm not complaining, I think that in many ways it's more fun now.  But Reapers used to be the hardest faction to play against - and now they are the easiest.  Dragoons have made Cerberus much more difficult, mostly because they come in such large groups.  The Bombers have made the Geth slightly more difficult (and infinitely more annoying).  And the Collectors are far tougher than any other faction.  Possessed Scions and Possessed Abominations are especially bad.  I had a match yesterday where we got a "Sole Survivor" despite the fact that all 4 of us were in the landing area when the clock hit 0:00, because a Possessed Abomination exploding in the circle killed 3 of us.

[mackfactor]

NorthsidePK wrote...

 Seriously I have to use consumables on silver now?

I havent had an extraction on gold in a week!!???!?!

WTF happened???

I'm still playing the same....but all of a suddon everything is rediculously difficult!!

What is the deal with the dragoons???

On gold they give ya a bakers dozen at a time and you cannot outrun them even with a adrenaline amp

^(lil exaggeration there but they are very plentiful and very fast with no regard for themselves or cover)

A couple weeks ago I was having fun on gold, it was plenty difficult, but still fun.

Now silver is a chore....

Why was the game changed???

OMG!! The world is ending!! Let's all have an epic hissy fit!

I'm normally a strong silver player and I've been venturing in to Gold recently and have extracted in 75% of matches. Yes, the Collectors are super tough, even on Silver, but I don't think it's harder other than that. Silver players tend to Rambo more, meaning there's less team work and fewer squad revives.

[Dark Tlaloc]

upinya slayin wrote...

I know what your saying. And i'll just take it as the truth since i have no idea. But i still don't get why it is an issue other then less credits. and I don't see why credits are such a big deal?

Personally, I need credits because I still have one Volus to get, and my 3 favorite guns (PPR, Talon, Harrier) are sadly UR, and I would like to have said guns at least at a III or IV. I would assume this is why most people want credits, but I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.

[Beerfish]

upinya slayin wrote...



I know what your saying. And i'll just take it as the truth since i have no idea. But i still don't get why it is an issue other then less credits. and I don't see why credits are such a big deal?

Enjoyment is a big factor.  There is absoluely no leisurely game play at all for the lower end player.  You are fighting for your life in every game vs the collectors.

Credits?  How many credits can you earn from a night of playing 8 games.  Then calclate the number of creds a person earns on bronze.  Now on bronze and silver you can, by playing alot still have a decent manifest but alot of it depends on how many consummables you have to use up.  I can stick to my silver and bronze and still make progress on my weapons and such if I am not using up a lot of consumables.  Once the level of difficulty goes uto to where I have to use a number of consummables each match I have less to get the weapons and gear up.

You think there was a 'carrying' problem before?  with no farming and the increased difficulty of the lwoer levels you will have more player with no business being in gold and plat going there.  It's the new economy.

In the end they really do not have to nerf the enemies defense and offense wise themselves at all, even for Bronze.  All they need to do is spawn one scion rather than two and either slow down the praetorians or make sure the bosses spawn further away after they have been killed.

the thing that decimates the lower levels is if they put down the two sicons and the Praet and instantly more spawn and are already in attack range.

[upinya slayin]

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I know what your saying. And i'll just take it as the truth since i have no idea. But i still don't get why it is an issue other then less credits. and I don't see why credits are such a big deal?

Personally, I need credits because I still have one Volus to get, and my 3 favorite guns (PPR, Talon, Harrier) are sadly UR, and I would like to have said guns at least at a III or IV. I would assume this is why most people want credits, but I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.

I understand the desire to unlock bigger and badder things, but its a reward for being good mixed in with some luck.
For instance when earth DLC came out, i had 4.5 million credits saved up. I got 5 URs from it but no typhoon. it took me over a week and 9-11 million credits total before i finally unlocked it (and it ws nerfec by then) yet i seen some people with only 2 Urs unlocked and 1 was a typhoon. they got it out of like 200k credits. Sure i was like WTF but hey its life. I wasn't gonna complain and rage quit and make a bunch of posts complaining about it.

Some people need to accept that they will only get rewarded based on skill or money in some games (and this is one of them) and thats ok. people worry too much about unlocks and that is why you see people jumping into plaitnum expected to be carried. thats nto fair for the rest of the team. The issue with the community is the people who want eveyrthing for free.

[upinya slayin]

Beerfish wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...



I know what your saying. And i'll just take it as the truth since i have no idea. But i still don't get why it is an issue other then less credits. and I don't see why credits are such a big deal?

Enjoyment is a big factor.  There is absoluely no leisurely game play at all for the lower end player.  You are fighting for your life in every game vs the collectors.

Credits?  How many credits can you earn from a night of playing 8 games.  Then calclate the number of creds a person earns on bronze.  Now on bronze and silver you can, by playing alot still have a decent manifest but alot of it depends on how many consummables you have to use up.  I can stick to my silver and bronze and still make progress on my weapons and such if I am not using up a lot of consumables.  Once the level of difficulty goes uto to where I have to use a number of consummables each match I have less to get the weapons and gear up.

You think there was a 'carrying' problem before?  with no farming and the increased difficulty of the lwoer levels you will have more player with no business being in gold and plat going there.  It's the new economy.

In the end they really do not have to nerf the enemies defense and offense wise themselves at all, even for Bronze.  All they need to do is spawn one scion rather than two and either slow down the praetorians or make sure the bosses spawn further away after they have been killed.

the thing that decimates the lower levels is if they put down the two sicons and the Praet and instantly more spawn and are already in attack range.

The thing is BW said that it somehow made bronze and silver harder and they are looking into it and will fix it. And nobody is complaining about that. but again it goes back to people being upset that they can't unlock things as fast as they used to. my response is so what? enjoy the game and have fun. But the impatient people rin it for eveyrone. If you odn't want a challenge and you want eveyrhting play SP. there are more wepons in teh game, you get them all free, you can put it on easy mode and wipe out enemies while feeling like a god. If thats what people want then they should play SP instead. MP takes some real skill on higher levels taht not everyone will posess. i'm far from teh best player out there and i'm ok with that. I don't care about my challenge rating nor my N7 rating. i Did go for the lone wolf and got it but its becuase it gave me a challenge and was something fun to do. I don't solo often. I used the striker and loved it. been a while since i used it. but i'm not gonna take an avenger into a gold game lol.

It seems you are agreeing its the people not to system, which is good. So basically what people don't realize is we can fix eveyrthing our selves with our behavior. BW doesn't need to fix anything. I hope they don't change collectors. they are just what i wanted. tough but not cheap.

[Beerfish]

upinya slayin wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...



I know what your saying. And i'll just take it as the truth since i have no idea. But i still don't get why it is an issue other then less credits. and I don't see why credits are such a big deal?

Enjoyment is a big factor.  There is absoluely no leisurely game play at all for the lower end player.  You are fighting for your life in every game vs the collectors.

Credits?  How many credits can you earn from a night of playing 8 games.  Then calclate the number of creds a person earns on bronze.  Now on bronze and silver you can, by playing alot still have a decent manifest but alot of it depends on how many consummables you have to use up.  I can stick to my silver and bronze and still make progress on my weapons and such if I am not using up a lot of consumables.  Once the level of difficulty goes uto to where I have to use a number of consummables each match I have less to get the weapons and gear up.

You think there was a 'carrying' problem before?  with no farming and the increased difficulty of the lwoer levels you will have more player with no business being in gold and plat going there.  It's the new economy.

In the end they really do not have to nerf the enemies defense and offense wise themselves at all, even for Bronze.  All they need to do is spawn one scion rather than two and either slow down the praetorians or make sure the bosses spawn further away after they have been killed.

the thing that decimates the lower levels is if they put down the two sicons and the Praet and instantly more spawn and are already in attack range.

The thing is BW said that it somehow made bronze and silver harder and they are looking into it and will fix it. And nobody is complaining about that. but again it goes back to people being upset that they can't unlock things as fast as they used to. my response is so what? enjoy the game and have fun. But the impatient people rin it for eveyrone. If you odn't want a challenge and you want eveyrhting play SP. there are more wepons in teh game, you get them all free, you can put it on easy mode and wipe out enemies while feeling like a god. If thats what people want then they should play SP instead. MP takes some real skill on higher levels taht not everyone will posess. i'm far from teh best player out there and i'm ok with that. I don't care about my challenge rating nor my N7 rating. i Did go for the lone wolf and got it but its becuase it gave me a challenge and was something fun to do. I don't solo often. I used the striker and loved it. been a while since i used it. but i'm not gonna take an avenger into a gold game lol.

It seems you are agreeing its the people not to system, which is good. So basically what people don't realize is we can fix eveyrthing our selves with our behavior. BW doesn't need to fix anything. I hope they don't change collectors. they are just what i wanted. tough but not cheap.

No it is the system.  The quality of players has not changed at all.  People are not worse, the game is much tougher.  I'll repeat the system was very good before the changes.  Now they are very skewed.  I also hope they do nothing to the collectors on gold and plat and i hope they do nothing to the collecotrs abilites on the lower levels, just remove one critter from teh spanw budget, slow another down and make sure they don't spawn into instant attack range.

[ForTuchanka]

Beerfish wrote...

The system was not broken at all before the latest changes.  Now it is.  All factions are tougher.  One faction is very significantly more difficult.  Previously there was a decent economy of cost vs reward vs game play enjoyment that was well balanced for almost everyone. 

The game was decidedly NOT well balanced for almost everyone. Bronze was, is, and should remain relatively easy for beginners and those who just play for fun and nothing else... silver was almost as easy as bronze before but now represents a true increase in challenge for DOUBLE the credits earned whereas before it was basically bronze with more mid-tier enemy spawn counts... gold was previously a complete joke due to the almost silver level of safety involved in FBWGG farming...   Now we have an easy difficulty... a medium one for DOUBLE the credits... a hard one for OVER DOUBLE the medium's reward... and platinum for those who want to face boss enemies every wave.  No where was it ever said that you SHOULD NOT HAVE TO use consumables at the medium difficulty level regardless of your manifest and/or skill.

The system is decidedly not broken now and my friends and I think the game is markedly more fun now than it was prior to the patch and the retaliation DLC.  Did it get a little bit harder?  Yes... but in our opinions, it definitely needed it.  Silver was a joke with maybe one or two pieces of equipment being used for the entire team if we got an unlucky hack or surprise PAIR of instakills... all while playing with zero consumables being used.  Silver used to be a win-win situation in that you were practically guaranteed to get 34k credits at no cost to you other than 20-22 minutes of your time.  Now you occasionally have to use a consumable per player if the going gets tough and use up some of the stuff you're earning on a regular basis.  The change took a few evenings to get used to but frankly has made us all better players.  If you're finding silver too difficult, switch to bronze or use consumables to better your character.  As your character succeeds at more and more games, your skill increases and you slowly amass more loot that lowers the need for consumables at the same difficulty.  

[JaimasOfRaxis]

You want unplayable?

Things like this, introduced to fight farming, which actually render the game virtually impossible if you get certain objectives, as multiple units spawn literally on top of you.

I don't know who's responsible for changing spawn locations, but I hope to god they get fired for it. I have seen more telefragging in the last two weeks than ever before, and it's because of this.

[Alex_Dur4and]

NorthsidePK wrote...

 Seriously I have to use consumables on silver now?

I havent had an extraction on gold in a week!!???!?!

WTF happened???

I'm still playing the same....but all of a suddon everything is rediculously difficult!!

What is the deal with the dragoons???

On gold they give ya a bakers dozen at a time and you cannot outrun them even with a adrenaline amp

^(lil exaggeration there but they are very plentiful and very fast with no regard for themselves or cover)

A couple weeks ago I was having fun on gold, it was plenty difficult, but still fun.

Now silver is a chore....

Why was the game changed???

Alright... Let me be the devil's advocate here!

OP, I support this thread for the Collectors and the Collectors only. They are really hard. Even on silver, I need to use consummables and I'm no greeny to this game. If I, a lone wolf banner holder, says that the collectors are hard, you can beleive me... And don't listen to all those Trolls that will say otherwize. 

If it's true that the collectors are easy on gold or platinum for some people, I strongly suggest to those people to move out of their parents basement, go back to school, get a job, get a girl friend, see some friends on the weekends and get involved in some sport activity once or twice a week! lol