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Magic is meant to serve man, never to rule him. It's not ruling to want the same rights as any man. (Templar-Mage War Topic)


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#226
Terrorize69

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MisterJB wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
Keepers are not the uncontested rulers of clans, but the clan does greatly admire and respect the Keeper in a way that makes it seem so. But its not the magic they admire, its the knowledge and the keepers duty and dedication to keeping the old ways alive.
The Dalish prize that above all else.

Is there a way to change a Keeper's decision without having to abandon the clan? Something to keep their power in check?
And yet only mages are electable to the position. Can't mundanes dedicate themselves to keeping their knowledge?


Dalish do not foster the same distrust in their leaders as humans and other races, they have a firm belief that a Keeper knows the best intrests for the clan, the fact that a clan survives is enough to keep their belief in the Keeper strong.

If they can change a decision without leaving, I do not know, very few Dalish ever feel the need to doubt what the Keeper says or does. The one case being Merrill.

The reason mages only become Keepers is mentioned in DA2, while I can't remember the precise reasons, it was to do with being able to listen to the fade, to their ancestors. Not only that but a Keepers job is to understand and preserve anicent lore, a lot of which holds magical elements to it, since all anicent elves had the ability. Tomes etc are protected with magic and written in a lost langague that only those with magical talents and a connection to the fade can make sense off.

So anyone without magic would have a truely difficult time doing its duty to the clan when it cannot understand anicent lore. It is why mages are passed amoung clans, to ensure all clans have access to such knowledge.

When I replay DA2 again i'll gladly add here word for word the connections between a Keepers magic and being able to preserve the old ways.

#227
General User

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

General User wrote...

Like I said, I agree that it's a form of oppression.  But I also happen to agree with the viewpoint that it is a necessary and acceptable form and degree of oppression given the very real dangers uncontrolled magic and mages represent in Thedas.

I'd like you to show your work on that.  Why is it acceptable? 

Because mages posess a inborn potential to destroy things and kill and violate others that most all non-mages simply cannot hope to match or even counter.  That much at least should be obvious.

If the mages outnumbered the mundanes, would it no longer be acceptable?

It would no longer be practical.

Or would it still be okay, because you see the mages being oppressed as a lesser evil when compared to mundanes living in fear?

I see mage oppression as only being "evil" to the extent that abuses occur in the system.  The basic premise however, of segregating mages into the Circles, is a sensible and reasonable measure taken to ensure everyone's well-being.

And it's fear from which you're protecting them.  Nothing more.

When it comes to mages and magic there is a great deal for a non-mage to be legitimately to be afraid of.

Modifié par General User, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:11 .


#228
Shadow Fox

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DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.

Ah hell Naw.
*starts playing Van Helsing theme*

COME AT ME BRAH!*Activates Holy Smite*:bandit:

#229
The Elder King

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Terrorize69 wrote...


Dalish do not foster the same distrust in their leaders as humans and other races, they have a firm belief that a Keeper knows the best intrests for the clan, the fact that a clan survives is enough to keep their belief in the Keeper strong.

If they can change a decision without leaving, I do not know, very few Dalish ever feel the need to doubt what the Keeper says or does. The one case being Merrill.


Well, I do think that the dalish wouldn't have been fine with Zathrian if they discovered his role in the curse. For his revenge, the clan suffered. I doubt that he'd have mantained the position as Keeper if the dalish would've known his role.

Modifié par hhh89, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:17 .


#230
silentassassin264

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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.

Ah hell Naw.
*starts playing Van Helsing theme*

COME AT ME BRAH!*Activates Holy Smite*:bandit:

Aren't you a mage?  How can you do Holy Smite?  Shouldn't you have mana clash?

#231
The Elder King

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DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.


Yeah, that's the right mindset. After some centuries, the non mages will break free from the mage's rule and will put the mages back in circles. In this way the cycle will never ends. Harby and Sovy will be so proud of you.

#232
Shadow Fox

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.

Ah hell Naw.
*starts playing Van Helsing theme*

COME AT ME BRAH!*Activates Holy Smite*:bandit:

Aren't you a mage?  How can you do Holy Smite?  Shouldn't you have mana clash?

Some of my characters are Templars:wizard:

#233
The Elder King

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.

Ah hell Naw.
*starts playing Van Helsing theme*

COME AT ME BRAH!*Activates Holy Smite*:bandit:

Aren't you a mage?  How can you do Holy Smite?  Shouldn't you have mana clash?


He/she's probably not a mage, despite the name.

#234
Shadow Fox

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hhh89 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.

Ah hell Naw.
*starts playing Van Helsing theme*

COME AT ME BRAH!*Activates Holy Smite*:bandit:

Aren't you a mage?  How can you do Holy Smite?  Shouldn't you have mana clash?


He/she's probably not a mage, despite the name.

I have a male Force Mage,female Blood Mage,a female Templar and female Assasian in DA2,In DAO I have a female Elf rogue,Dwarf warrior and Human mage.

I'm a jack of all trades.:devil:

#235
silentassassin264

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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.

Ah hell Naw.
*starts playing Van Helsing theme*

COME AT ME BRAH!*Activates Holy Smite*:bandit:

Aren't you a mage?  How can you do Holy Smite?  Shouldn't you have mana clash?

Some of my characters are Templars:wizard:

Image IPB

based off your username.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:25 .


#236
Shadow Fox

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

May the templars burn and the chantry cry as the mage rule thedas once again.

Ah hell Naw.
*starts playing Van Helsing theme*

COME AT ME BRAH!*Activates Holy Smite*:bandit:

Aren't you a mage?  How can you do Holy Smite?  Shouldn't you have mana clash?

Some of my characters are Templars:wizard:

Image IPB

based off your username.

I'm a warrior mage I have to be convincing:P

#237
Plaintiff

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I find these discussions interesting as they tend to accept as a starting point "Magic is meant to serve man, never to rule him," and then argue over what the social implications of that are.

But why? Why should we presuppose the purpose of magic? Magic is simply magic - making assertions beyond that is baseless.

There are mages, and there are non-mages. Each has different capabilities. There is no reason for non-mages to resent the magical powers of mages any more than there is reason for rabbits to resent the abilities of eagles to fly and prey upon rabbits.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with anything Sylvius has said, but this is basically my stance. Magic exists and that's all it does. Any supposed "purpose" is purely subjective.

As the issue stands currently, I plan to side with the mages. In a conflict between oppressor and oppressed, side with the oppressed.

If the mages become oppressors in a later installment of Dragon Age, then I will opt to fight aagainst them. It's that simple.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:33 .


#238
The Elder King

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Plaintiff wrote...



If the mages become oppressors in a later installment of Dragon Age, then I will opt to fight aagainst them. It's that simple.



This is a thing that I don't absolutely want. I'd prefer if Bioware doesn't create another cycle. I din't like much how the game that was around the last one.

#239
silentassassin264

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Plaintiff wrote...

I can't believe I'm agreeing with anything Sylvius has said, but this is basically my stance. Magic exists and that's all it does. Any supposed "purpose" is purely subjective.

As the issue stands currently, I plan to side with the mages. In a conflict between oppressor and oppressed, side with the oppressed.

If the mages become oppressors in a later installment of Dragon Age, then I will opt to fight aagainst them. It's that simple.

He is mad.  Why are you agreeing with him?  I am all for liberty but I cannot accept removing one form of oppression just to replace it with another.  It is stupid to fight a war to end oppression just to cause the oppressed to become oppressors and have to do it all over again.  A neverending cycle of violence helps no one.  If you are not going to find some way to attempt to make equilibrium, there is no reason to stir the chaos.

#240
SeptimusMagistos

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Plaintiff wrote...
I can't believe I'm agreeing with anything Sylvius has said, but this is basically my stance. Magic exists and that's all it does. Any supposed "purpose" is purely subjective.

As the issue stands currently, I plan to side with the mages. In a conflict between oppressor and oppressed, side with the oppressed.

If the mages become oppressors in a later installment of Dragon Age, then I will opt to fight aagainst them. It's that simple.


This. So much this.

silentassassin264 wrote...
He is mad.  Why are you agreeing with him?  I am all for liberty but I cannot accept removing one form of oppression just to replace it with another.  It is stupid to fight a war to end oppression just to cause the oppressed to become oppressors and have to do it all over again.  A neverending cycle of violence helps no one.  If you are not going to find some way to attempt to make equilibrium, there is no reason to stir the chaos.


Do I look like a social architect to you?

If I can do something to ensure that the new society with free mages in it gets along okay, I will. But if not, I'm perfectly willing to let the mages free and hope for the best. Hopefully one day the mages and mundanes will get along on their own. But if so, it will be in a just and equitable society. As long as one side is oppressing the other, I'm fighting whichever one is doing the oppressing.

Modifié par SeptimusMagistos, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:45 .


#241
MisterJB

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SeptimusMagistos wrote...
But if not, I'm perfectly willing to let the mages free and hope for the best. Hopefully one day the mages and mundanes will get along on their own.

No offence but that is a completely irresponsible attitude.

Modifié par MisterJB, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:48 .


#242
The Elder King

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SeptimusMagistos wrote...


Do I look like a social architect to you?

If I can do something to ensure that the new society with free mages in it gets along okay, I will. But if not, I'm perfectly willing to let the mages free and hope for the best. Hopefully one day the mages and mundanes will get along on their own. But if so, it will be in a just and equitable society. As long as one side is oppressing the other, I'm fighting whichever one is doing the oppressing.


Let's wait for The Shepard of Thedas to come and resolve the issue, with an A,B,C type of choice.

#243
silentassassin264

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SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Do I look like a social architect to you?

If I can do something to ensure that the new society with free mages in it gets along okay, I will. But if not, I'm perfectly willing to let the mages free and hope for the best. Hopefully one day the mages and mundanes will get along on their own. But if so, it will be in a just and equitable society. As long as one side is oppressing the other, I'm fighting whichever one is doing the oppressing.

You are trying to be a social architect if you are for destroying any semblence of balance and if you put no effort to make order work, you are just destroying order for the lulz.  That is irresponsible.  You can't tear down order and have no plan to create something out of it or you are a chaotic troll.

#244
The Hierophant

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Like i said before, Otataral is the only way the situation can be concluded.

#245
Terrorize69

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Best way is to draw up a breeding program with Mages and Templars.. get a half Templar half Mage cross breed, has the powers of the a Mage, and the resistance to possession of a Templar. Win win.

#246
silentassassin264

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Mages with lyrium blood? I see no way that could go wrong.

#247
Xilizhra

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silentassassin264 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Do I look like a social architect to you?

If I can do something to ensure that the new society with free mages in it gets along okay, I will. But if not, I'm perfectly willing to let the mages free and hope for the best. Hopefully one day the mages and mundanes will get along on their own. But if so, it will be in a just and equitable society. As long as one side is oppressing the other, I'm fighting whichever one is doing the oppressing.

You are trying to be a social architect if you are for destroying any semblence of balance and if you put no effort to make order work, you are just destroying order for the lulz.  That is irresponsible.  You can't tear down order and have no plan to create something out of it or you are a chaotic troll.

As of now, we've had no in-game opportunity to draw up a plan and can only make wild guesses as to what might work. We as people have no way of knowing which plans will be any good. I suspect we will come DA3.

#248
Guest_Rojahar_*

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Xilizhra wrote...

As of now, we've had no in-game opportunity to draw up a plan and can only make wild guesses as to what might work. We as people have no way of knowing which plans will be any good. I suspect we will come DA3.


Clearly they should make a Sim City style Dragon Age. Make your own Kirkwall or Tevinter Imperium!

Modifié par Rojahar, 24 octobre 2012 - 01:20 .


#249
Shadow Fox

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Dragon Age 4: Mage Hunter

#250
SeptimusMagistos

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silentassassin264 wrote...

You are trying to be a social architect


More of a generalized bad guy killer.

silentassassin264 wrote...

if you are for destroying any semblence of balance and if you put no effort to make order work, you are just destroying order for the lulz. 


Order isn't intristically good, especially not when it's used to perpetuate abuse.

silentassassin264 wrote...

That is irresponsible.  You can't tear down order and have no plan to create something out of it or you are a chaotic troll.


The current plan is to trust the people of Thedas, both mage and non-mage, to come up with a peaceful and equitable resolution with or without my help.

Just as soon as I kill the ones willing to keep others locked up for crimes they may or may not commit in order to make themselves feel safer.

Problem?:lol: