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[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
In the end, mages are still people and deserve to be free and not chained up like animals all their lives.

Newsflash:
Life does not care what anyone "deserves".
Deserving a completely human and subjective concept.

All the people that died because of Connor, anders and all the other mages - did they deserve to die?

By your own estimation, it doesn't matter whether they did or not.

Then it doesn't make sense to ask that question for mages that get killed or locked up, now does it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

None of your mentioned societies are in a state where they can even attempt it, so your point is mood. All of your mentioned societies are also in a state of recession...

The Dalish elves had their own nation, and they didn't attempt it. The Rivaini seers live in a kingdom, and they didn't attempt it. The Chasind and the Avvar live in tribes, but I don't see it as a recession, and it doesn't change that they aren't mimicking Tevinter. I don't see how it's moot to point out that there are societies where mages are living alongside non-mages, without trying to emulate the Imperium. I don't see why some people act as though a society with free mages will inevitably lead to Tevinter, when there are a plethora of societies where this isn't the case.

Chasind and Avvars are tribes. They aren't a model for a ordered society.

Rivian HAS Cricles.

Dalish are remnants of the remants. Broken, lost people.

[The Elder King]

Terrorize69 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

I think all non-mages should be shipped to Tevinter give the mages southern Thedas lol

Then Andraste 2.0 arises from the ashes to combat the evil mageocracy who's severely weakened after it's baby bleeding magisters unwittingly unleashed the lightspawn upon Thedas.

Nah Leiliana is in love with a mage.

Leliana lives in a society where mages rules with fear, in which hundreds of people are sacrificed for a moronic goal (reach the Golden City) and unleashed one of the major threats Thedas saw in its history?

[Medhia Nox]

@LobselVith8: And how do those nations treat Blood Mages eh?

Tevinter isn't just - 'run by mages'.  It's just - 'run by blood mages'. 

Something you also advocate.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]DKJaigen wrote...

[quote]EmperorSahlertz wrote...
So we should lobotomize mages all simply because they may be dangerous? [/quote]
Not because they may be dangerous. Because they ARE dangerous. Still lobotomizing the lot of them is a bit too drastic. Circles are a better alternative.[/quote]

Proof they are dangerous. So far im not impressed what a rogue mages have done so far .
[/quote]

Call me when you find a real example of a normal non-mage child causing the destruction of an entire town.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Bah, this argument is going no where. Just wait till DA3 when one faction kill the other one, though mages will continue to exist even if they're hunted down, can't say the same for Templars.

[Terrorize69]

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

I think all non-mages should be shipped to Tevinter give the mages southern Thedas lol

Then Andraste 2.0 arises from the ashes to combat the evil mageocracy who's severely weakened after it's baby bleeding magisters unwittingly unleashed the lightspawn upon Thedas.

Nah Leiliana is in love with a mage.

Leliana lives in a society where mages rules with fear, in which hundreds of people are sacrificed for a moronic goal (reach the Golden City) and unleashed one of the major threats Thedas saw in its history?

What... Leiliana untill recently lived in a society where mages were imprisoned and oppressed

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish elves had their own nation, and they didn't attempt it. The Rivaini seers live in a kingdom, and they didn't attempt it. The Chasind and the Avvar live in tribes, but I don't see it as a recession, and it doesn't change that they aren't mimicking Tevinter. I don't see how it's moot to point out that there are societies where mages are living alongside non-mages, without trying to emulate the Imperium. I don't see why some people act as though a society with free mages will inevitably lead to Tevinter, when there are a plethora of societies where this isn't the case.

Chasind and Avvars are tribes. They aren't a model for a ordered society.

Rivian HAS Cricles.

Dalish are remnants of the remants. Broken, lost people.

The Dalish had a nation, the seers and witches are free in the kingdom of Rivain, and the Chasind and Avvar have existed for centuries. Again, free mages don't automatically mean another Imperium.

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
In the end, mages are still people and deserve to be free and not chained up like animals all their lives.

Newsflash:
Life does not care what anyone "deserves".
Deserving a completely human and subjective concept.

All the people that died because of Connor, anders and all the other mages - did they deserve to die?

By your own estimation, it doesn't matter whether they did or not.

Then it doesn't make sense to ask that question for mages that get killed or locked up, now does it?

Connor's demon was dealt with. Anders will be rehabilitated. I haven't swept either action under the rug.

[The Elder King]

Terrorize69 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...


Nah Leiliana is in love with a mage.

Leliana lives in a society where mages rules with fear, in which hundreds of people are sacrificed for a moronic goal (reach the Golden City) and unleashed one of the major threats Thedas saw in its history?

What... Leiliana untill recently lived in a society where mages were imprisoned and oppressed

You misunderstood me. You implied that Leliana is Andraste 2.0. With my post I implied that they're different, because they lived in different society.

[LobselVith8]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: And how do those nations treat Blood Mages eh?

Tevinter isn't just - 'run by mages'.  It's just - 'run by blood mages'. 

Something you also advocate.

Run by Magistes who enslave mages and non-mages alike.

I advocate mage autonomy from a system condemned by some as slavery.

[Terrorize69]

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...


Nah Leiliana is in love with a mage.

Leliana lives in a society where mages rules with fear, in which hundreds of people are sacrificed for a moronic goal (reach the Golden City) and unleashed one of the major threats Thedas saw in its history?

What... Leiliana untill recently lived in a society where mages were imprisoned and oppressed

You misunderstood me. You implied that Leliana is Andraste 2.0. With my post I implied that they're different, because they lived in different society.

The game implys she may be the reincarnation of Andraste, guess we'll see in DA3 but if she is, she is head over heels for my Mage Warden, could be a bright future for mages.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish elves had their own nation, and they didn't attempt it. The Rivaini seers live in a kingdom, and they didn't attempt it. The Chasind and the Avvar live in tribes, but I don't see it as a recession, and it doesn't change that they aren't mimicking Tevinter. I don't see how it's moot to point out that there are societies where mages are living alongside non-mages, without trying to emulate the Imperium. I don't see why some people act as though a society with free mages will inevitably lead to Tevinter, when there are a plethora of societies where this isn't the case.

Chasind and Avvars are tribes. They aren't a model for a ordered society.

Rivian HAS Cricles.

Dalish are remnants of the remants. Broken, lost people.

The Dalish had a nation, the seers and witches are free in the kingdom of Rivain, and the Chasind and Avvar have existed for centuries. Again, free mages don't automatically mean another Imperium.

The Seers in Rivain are apostates, and are still hunted by the Templars. The natives have just proven difficult to cooperate with, sicne they are reluctant to give up the seers to the Templars. Doesn't change the fact that the seers are illegal mages though. Chasind and Avvar have existed for hundreds of years, and for all of those years, mages have ruled their tribes. Seems to me that free mages does indeed mean they will rule the society in which they are free.

And the Dales expanded far into Orlais during their time. Seems to me they were building an empire...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then it doesn't make sense to ask that question for mages that get killed or locked up, now does it?

Connor's demon was dealt with. Anders will be rehabilitated. I haven't swept either action under the rug.

A lot of good that did.
All those people are still dead.
The Warden/Hawke were about as usefull as a coroner.

THIS is why letting mages go free will never work. It is reactive and not pro-active.
You do *something* after the damage has been done.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish had a nation, the seers and witches are free in the kingdom of Rivain, and the Chasind and Avvar have existed for centuries. Again, free mages don't automatically mean another Imperium.

The Seers in Rivain are apostates, and are still hunted by the Templars. The natives have just proven difficult to cooperate with, sicne they are reluctant to give up the seers to the Templars. Doesn't change the fact that the seers are illegal mages though. Chasind and Avvar have existed for hundreds of years, and for all of those years, mages have ruled their tribes. Seems to me that free mages does indeed mean they will rule the society in which they are free.

And the Dales expanded far into Orlais during their time. Seems to me they were building an empire...

The kingdom of Rivain has a struggle between the people over their conflicting views, but codex entries note the seers and witches being free. There are shamans who govern among the Avvar and the Chasind, no different than the Keepers. They are hardly the same as the Imperium, however.

The Dalish claim templars invaded because the elves refused to convert and kicked out the Chantry missionaries; the elven protagonist can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales for the elves' refusal to capitulate to their religion. Self-defense against an invasion isn't "building an empire."

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish had a nation, the seers and witches are free in the kingdom of Rivain, and the Chasind and Avvar have existed for centuries. Again, free mages don't automatically mean another Imperium.

The Seers in Rivain are apostates, and are still hunted by the Templars. The natives have just proven difficult to cooperate with, sicne they are reluctant to give up the seers to the Templars. Doesn't change the fact that the seers are illegal mages though. Chasind and Avvar have existed for hundreds of years, and for all of those years, mages have ruled their tribes. Seems to me that free mages does indeed mean they will rule the society in which they are free.

And the Dales expanded far into Orlais during their time. Seems to me they were building an empire...

The kingdom of Rivain has a struggle between the people over their conflicting views, but codex entries note the seers and witches being free. There are shamans who govern among the Avvar and the Chasind, no different than the Keepers. They are hardly the same as the Imperium, however.

The Dalish claim templars invaded because the elves refused to convert and kicked out the Chantry missionaries; the elven protagonist can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales for the elves' refusal to capitulate to their religion. Self-defense against an invasion isn't "building an empire."

No matter what the Dalish claim you don't invade another country in "self-defense". You do that to expand.
And Rivain is for all intends and purposes an Andrastian nation, which means it has a Circle, and it follow those laws. Ergo, the seers are apostates.

[The Elder King]

Terrorize69 wrote...


The game implys she may be the reincarnation of Andraste, guess we'll see in DA3 but if she is, she is head over heels for my Mage Warden, could be a bright future for mages.

Where exactly? Because she had a dream (in which by the way the Maker didn't talk to her. It might have sent her a message to aid people in stoppin the Blight, but he didn't appear to her like to Andraste?. But even if she was new Andraste (in meaning as a new prophet for humanity) but I see in no way how she could be Andraste's reincarnation, and I see no reason why the Maker would do that, considering that the Maker couldn't care less about humanity at the moment.
I'd like to have no Prophet or Messiah in the game (as a living being, as we got Andraste).

Modifié par hhh89, 24 octobre 2012 - 07:33 .

[EricHVela]

This seems like a situation where one has to, first, decide what it means to divide by zero. It's not something we can evaluate in real life and forces us to make all kinds of assumptions to what the universal rules are in the related fiction where one can easily solve x/0 to a definite value.

Easy to come up with our own ideas on what it means. Not so easy to make everyone else see it the same way since it only exists in fiction and only exists by the definition we've placed upon it -- something that's not the same for everyone.

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...
I see no reason why the Maker would do that,

Might I just point out that, for some reason, I find this hilarious?
Isabela: Leliana is not the Messiah. She is a very naughty girl.

Modifié par MisterJB, 24 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
I see no reason why the Maker would do that,

Might I just point out that, for some reason, I find this hilarious?
Isabela: Leliana is not the Messiah. She is a very naughty girl.

Well, I wasn't considering that, but I'd say it's another minus toward this theory. Expecially if Leliana would really beAndraste's reincarnation. Though it could explain why the Warden  (if he had romanced Leliana) can't be find. The Maker wanted to have "a talk" with him about Leliana:lol:

[SeptimusMagistos]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You do *something* after the damage has been done.

As opposed to locking up people who've never done anything to merit it, yes.

[MisterJB]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...
As opposed to locking up people who've never done anything to merit it, yes.

I think the people of Redcliff would have been happier had Isolde just sent Connor to the Circle in the first place.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...
As opposed to locking up people who've never done anything to merit it, yes.

I think the people of Redcliff would have been happier had Isolde just sent Connor to the Circle in the first place.

And if there were any decent tutors available, as opposed to a crappy one sent by Loghain as an assassin, it wouldn't have been a problem either. In fact, things probably would have been fine had Loghain not made an assassination attempt.

[billy the squid]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then it doesn't make sense to ask that question for mages that get killed or locked up, now does it?

Connor's demon was dealt with. Anders will be rehabilitated. I haven't swept either action under the rug.

A lot of good that did.
All those people are still dead.
The Warden/Hawke were about as usefull as a coroner.

THIS is why letting mages go free will never work. It is reactive and not pro-active.
You do *something* after the damage has been done.

Because for every problem there's a final soloution right?

Modifié par billy the squid, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:18 .