You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies. What's up with that?DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
Modifié par General User, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:32 .
Cousland is a victim of circumstances. He is not being actively imprisoned by anyone. The option to leave the Grey Wardens exists, even if gme mechanics do not allow it. Anders did it, Fiona did it, Alistair can do it. The Warden himself apparently managed it since his current whereabouts are not known by anyone.MisterJB wrote...
My Cousland watched his parents die in front of his dies and joined an organization where you are expected to serve for life and die alone in the Deep Roads in order to survive. Where was the freedom in that?Terrorize69 wrote...
Yes, you can and you should.
Freedom is the right of every sentient being.
No one is free.
Why should the Chantry not have influence? Would the local governements be more caring to the mages?At no point did I say that mages should be allowed to run around unsupervised.
Yes, the balance of power needs to be adjusted. For starters, the Chantry should not have any.
No, the Chantry teaches the pride of humanity created the Darkspawn. Though to be fair, it wouldn't have happened if not for the massive bloog magic ritual. And free mages might start up a new Tevinter, we don't know.How about the part where they blame magic for the existence of the Darkspawn? How about the part where they say that freeing mages can only lead to a return of the Tevinter Imperium?
What ancillary media? I can't find that anywhere.Greagoir is shown beating a pregnant mage in the ancillary media. Cullen stood back and allowed Meredith to annul the Kirkwall Circle for a crime it had not committed. Neither are paragons of virtue.
Apologies then. It's a common arguement and I just assumed you supported it as well.I don't see what lyrium addiction has to do with anything. Being addicted to lyrium doesn't cause you to beat, murder or rape people (as far as I'm aware), and I never said it did.
The Lyrium is neccessary for their powers to work. But yeah, I agree completely.But the fact that the Chantry uses an addictive substance to leash Templars is utterly despicable, and only further proof that the whole system is completely broken.
The poor guy at the doors of the Denerim Chantry. He was suffering sever withdrawl symptoms, but he mostly just quote the Chant while smiling at people, much like a chanter would.Who?
Yeah, the Kirkwall Circle was horrible and insane and retarded.Ser Thrask is better than his peers, certainly, but that's not exactly a high bar to clear. The fact that he allowed his daughter to flee Kirkwall, rather than have her in the Gallows, where he could even keep an eye out for her, is extremely telling.
Maybe I'm missing someting, but I thought the demons had already slaughtered everyone, and we were just the first to walk up to the building. And I'm pretty sure the old, blind templar isn't where you should look for major reform.Ser Otto would do better to investigate the corruption among his own peers rather than chasing down vague rumours of "evil presences". As far as I can tell, the demons in the abandoned orphanage were minding their own business until he showed up.
Modifié par Palidane, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:36 .
General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies.DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
If he did not join the Grey Wardens, Howe would have killed him. There was no freedom. Hawke didn't have the option on not leaving Lothering because the Darkspawn would have killed him. He wasn't free.Terrorize69 wrote...
You had the choice not to join. Mages don't get the choice to forefit their freedom, its decided for them.
hhh89 wrote...
I've yet to decide on the matter, but even in the case of a complete freedom for mages, rules and an organization (composed not only by non-mages but mages too) to watch over the mages, is needed anyway.Terrorize69 wrote...
Yes, you can and you should.Palidane wrote...
For God's sake you people, templars are not oppressing mages cause they think it's lulzy. Mages are loaded guns. Every one of them. Not only are they people who have been given extreme power from birth with zero qualifications, they are always open to the influence of demons. We can't just let them waltz around and hope everything works out.
Freedom is the right of every sentient being.
Plaintiff wrote...
If the Circle system was completely independent of the Chantry, and mages were part of the secular police force that watched over it, and there was a better system of checks and balances to ensure that abuses were prevented, or at least punished more often, then yes, that would be a vast improvement.
It would still need some tweaking, but it would be a good start.
DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies.DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
After seeing the type of people of the templars, the chantry, the nobles and the dwarfs are, I can't really say I'll miss them.
Funny how you missed out the anti-mage genocide in the same pyramid, mine is a retort to that.General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies. What's up with that?DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
Nerevar-as wrote...
Palidane wrote...
Nerevar-as wrote...
Palidane wrote...
For God's sake you people, templars are not oppressing mages cause they think it's lulzy. Mages are loaded guns. Every one of them. Not only are they people who have been given extreme power from birth with zero qualifications, they are always open to the influence of demons. We can't just let them waltz around and hope everything works out.
Magneto was right.
I'm not saying we kill them, I'm saying we gather them, help them, advise them, teach them, protect them, and monitor them. But mages are not normal people, and they can't be held to the same standard. Look at what Connor did in Redcliffe! Or that demon in the Denerim Alienage Orphanage.
I agree with that, but when the final exam consists in a do or die test with minimal preparation, you are not allowed to have family, if you do you have it taken away, and have no privacy, then something must change. I´m only surprised it took several centuries to reach the current state.
How would you know? We haven't met every single demon.MisterJB wrote...
Demons don't mind their own business. Their sole interests consist of possessing people, corrupting people, feeding on people and killing people.
Seriously, demons?
They're Tevinter. You know how they are.General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies. What's up with that?
Nevertheless he recieved the exact same trainning as all other Templars. Evidently hatred is NOT part of their trainning.Plaintiff wrote...
Alistair was never ordained. He was forced into his training, and he makes it extremely clear that he dislikes the Chantry generally. He's happy that Duncan came along and recruited him when he did. Any positive views Alistair might hold about the Circle system are baseless because he's never actually worked in it. He has no clue about the abuses that go unpunished.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Yes, Alistair was seething with hatred for all magekind....Plaintiff wrote...
There is no "security" in the Circle. They are watched constantly by zealots and bigots who have been trained to hate them and are looking for any excuse to kill or lobotomize them. Any "friends" they might make could be taken away at any moment for totally arbitrary reasons.Palidane wrote...
And if Mages have to be educated, why not educate them in a circle? Then you have access to more resources, friends, perspectives, and security.
Alistair is an example of a decent person with Templar abilities. He is not an example of a decent person working in a Templar capacity.
TheJediSaint wrote...
DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies.DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
After seeing the type of people of the templars, the chantry, the nobles and the dwarfs are, I can't really say I'll miss them.
Because the mages are all saints, right?<_<
Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:36 .
Then don't blame mages for your wardens poor combat skills if your so certain he would of died. Yet still you had the choice, not a great choice. But a choice still. Something mages always lacked.MisterJB wrote...
If he did not join the Grey Wardens, Howe would have killed him. There was no freedom. Hawke didn't have the option on not leaving Lothering because the Darkspawn would have killed him. He wasn't free.Terrorize69 wrote...
You had the choice not to join. Mages don't get the choice to forefit their freedom, its decided for them.
No one is truly free.
hush hush lord bhelen is a magnificent ruler who is pushing against the darkspawn and reclaiming lost thaigs whilst bringing orzammar into the dragon ageDarkKnightHolmes wrote...
General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies.DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
After seeing the type of people of the templars, the chantry, the nobles and the dwarfs are, I can't really say I'll miss them.
Terrorize69 wrote...
hhh89 wrote...
I've yet to decide on the matter, but even in the case of a complete freedom for mages, rules and an organization (composed not only by non-mages but mages too) to watch over the mages, is needed anyway.
Ofcourse mages should still follow the laws of the land, just like anyone. Don't need to be locked in a 6 by 8 room for half your life to do that. Unless you show otherwise, innocent till proven guilty.
I'm sure most mages follow basic laws anyway.
alhamel94 wrote...
hush hush lord bhelen is a magnificent ruler who is pushing against the darkspawn and reclaiming lost thaigs whilst bringing orzammar into the dragon ageDarkKnightHolmes wrote...
General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies.DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
After seeing the type of people of the templars, the chantry, the nobles and the dwarfs are, I can't really say I'll miss them.
Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:40 .
Plaintiff wrote...
How would you know? We haven't met every single demon.
If a demon is minding its own business, you'd likely never know it, because you'd have no reason to fight them.
Modifié par MisterJB, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:38 .
Terrorize69 wrote...
Then don't blame mages for your wardens poor combat skills if your so certain he would of died. Yet still you had the choice, not a great choice. But a choice still. Something mages always lacked.MisterJB wrote...
If he did not join the Grey Wardens, Howe would have killed him. There was no freedom. Hawke didn't have the option on not leaving Lothering because the Darkspawn would have killed him. He wasn't free.Terrorize69 wrote...
You had the choice not to join. Mages don't get the choice to forefit their freedom, its decided for them.
No one is truly free.
Modifié par Palidane, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:39 .
Who's blaming mages? I'm just showing how freedom doesn't exist, neither for mages nor for mundanes.Terrorize69 wrote...
Then don't blame mages for your wardens poor combat skills if your so certain he would of died. Yet still you had the choice, not a great choice. But a choice still. Something mages always lacked.
Again, Hawke is a victim of circumstance, which is not at all the same thing. He can go anywhere and do whatever he likes, nothing is preventing him except plot constraints.MisterJB wrote...
If he did not join the Grey Wardens, Howe would have killed him. There was no freedom. Hawke didn't have the option on not leaving Lothering because the Darkspawn would have killed him. He wasn't free.Terrorize69 wrote...
You had the choice not to join. Mages don't get the choice to forefit their freedom, its decided for them.
No one is truly free.
And rather than denouce it for being crazy you just turn it around and find... support.Terrorize69 wrote...
Funny how you missed out the anti-mage genocide in the same pyramid, mine is a retort to that.General User wrote...
You mage supporters sure do love your genocide fantasies. What's up with that?DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Terrorize69 wrote...
If all non mages were dead, no one would whine about mages.alhamel94 wrote...
if the mages were all dead the atrocities could not happen
This person, he/she understands.
Modifié par General User, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:41 .
It doesn't need to be when the majority of recruits are already zealots.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Nevertheless he recieved the exact same trainning as all other Templars. Evidently hatred is NOT part of their trainning.Plaintiff wrote...
Alistair was never ordained. He was forced into his training, and he makes it extremely clear that he dislikes the Chantry generally. He's happy that Duncan came along and recruited him when he did. Any positive views Alistair might hold about the Circle system are baseless because he's never actually worked in it. He has no clue about the abuses that go unpunished.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Yes, Alistair was seething with hatred for all magekind....Plaintiff wrote...
There is no "security" in the Circle. They are watched constantly by zealots and bigots who have been trained to hate them and are looking for any excuse to kill or lobotomize them. Any "friends" they might make could be taken away at any moment for totally arbitrary reasons.Palidane wrote...
And if Mages have to be educated, why not educate them in a circle? Then you have access to more resources, friends, perspectives, and security.
Alistair is an example of a decent person with Templar abilities. He is not an example of a decent person working in a Templar capacity.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:43 .
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