656 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I'm saying rabbits shouldn't hate eagles just for being eagles.  Rabbits should accept their lot in life.

So you're a follower of the qun now?

In fact, I was paraphrasing Nietzsche, though he used sheep and hawks in his analogy.

TheJediSaint wrote...

Last I checked, no one in the real world has the innate ablity to blow stuff up using their minds.

We already have rules against blowing people up.  I see no reason why extra rules would be required simply because someone has a new way of doing it.

Maclimes wrote...

That's nonsense. The difference between a smart person and an average person is relatively minor, compared to the difference between a regular person and someone who can alter the fabric of reality with their minds.

The simple truth is this: THERE IS NO PROPER ANALOGY. There is no standard to use. There is no analog to real world events or situations. The mage/templar/mundane/chantry situation is, at best, an extreme exaggeration based very, very vaguely on real-world problems (and at worst, a situation that has no comparison at all to real problems).

If you must make a comparison, consider mutants in X-Men. But they're not real either, so it just goes right back around.

How about humans and livestock?  Are those sufficiently different from each other?

[Maclimes]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

The solution is simple..... everyone becomes a mage.

That's certainly one way around the issue.

Hmmmm... that does pose an interesting mental exercise for future games.

You could theoretically still have Warrior/Rogue/Mage, but they would be magical extensions of the existing classes. Think Swordmages from D&D, if you will.

[The Elder King]

Dhiro wrote...




I'm not sure if I understand your post? A Templar can stop a mage from casting Fireball and Horror alike.

Sorry, I misunderstood you post.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[Palipride47]

silentassassin264 wrote...

The chantry's whole position is stupid. They apparently can give lyrium out to give people annulment and cancel out magic. If they gave people a lyrium vaccine like they give Templars, mages would be the odd ones out as near the entire populace would be mostly immune to them. Instead with just get demonizing mages instead of using what you already have to definitely ensure they could never rule over you.

Lyrium is addictive, leads to insanity and other mental problems, physical ailments, and the unrefined stuff straight up kills mages.

Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

silentassassin264 wrote...

The chantry's whole position is stupid. They apparently can give lyrium out to give people annulment and cancel out magic. If they gave people a lyrium vaccine like they give Templars, mages would be the odd ones out as near the entire populace would be mostly immune to them. Instead with just get demonizing mages instead of using what you already have to definitely ensure they could never rule over you.

Lyrium is also terribly expensive and addictive. So giving it to the general populace is a very, very bad idea.

[General User]

Perhaps all mages could live free as long as they have a version of those quanri leashes on. That way anybody could have the same power over mages that mages already have over everyone else.

Modifié par General User, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:56 .

[Maclimes]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

How about humans and livestock?  Are those sufficiently different from each other?

You've gone too far the other way, now.

Livestock cannot comprehend, as individuals or a society, the comparison between themselves and humans. They cannot be oppressed, as they have no drive or motivation other than simple existence.

The level of sentience and cultural self-awareness is the same between mundanes and mages. Not so with humans and livestock.

Modifié par Maclimes, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:56 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Maclimes: If I were to make an analogy - I'd say an average Egyptian to Pharaoh.

If he said it was nighttime - and the sun was out - everyone had to go... "Damn, it's nighttime now." ((Of course - it wasn't "really" like this - but the exaggeration works.))

[EmperorSahlertz]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
How about humans and livestock?  Are those sufficiently different from each other?

So you are arguing that mages should treat non-mages like livestock?

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:57 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I see no viable long-term solution to the mage/mundane issue that doesn't involve the utter destruction of one group by the other.

[Maclimes]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I see no viable long-term solution to the mage/mundane issue that doesn't involve the utter destruction of one group by the other.

I agree. Destruction doesn't necessarily mean death, of course. (There's the "Turn everyone tranquil/turn everyone into a mage" variation, as well). Not arguing, since you didn't actually directly imply death. Just expounding on the concept.

[Terrorize69]

I got an idea, maybe switch roles for 900 years lol. Let mages imprison anyone without magic... then in 900 years time when both have an equal view of the other side, they can reach a compromise xD

[silentassassin264]

Palipride47 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

The chantry's whole position is stupid. They apparently can give lyrium out to give people annulment and cancel out magic. If they gave people a lyrium vaccine like they give Templars, mages would be the odd ones out as near the entire populace would be mostly immune to them. Instead with just get demonizing mages instead of using what you already have to definitely ensure they could never rule over you.

Lyrium is addictive, leads to insanity and other mental problems, physical ailments, and the unrefined stuff straight up kills mages.

Not in a one-time dose.  The annulment passive ability does not require Hawke to keep on guzzling down lyrium.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lyrium is also terribly expensive and addictive. So giving it to the general populace is a very, very bad idea.

It is expensive because the Chantry controls the lyrium trade and uses it only for drugging their own templars.  And I am not suggesting giving lyrium to the general populace to play with.  Let the templars/chantry/whateverpassesasdoctors administer it like a vaccine.  

[Palipride47]

Maclimes wrote...

That's nonsense. The difference between a smart person and an average person is relatively minor, compared to the difference between a regular person and someone who can alter the fabric of reality with their minds.

The simple truth is this: THERE IS NO PROPER ANALOGY. There is no standard to use. There is no analog to real world events or situations. The mage/templar/mundane/chantry situation is, at best, an extreme exaggeration based very, very vaguely on real-world problems (and at worst, a situation that has no comparison at all to real problems).

If you must make a comparison, consider mutants in X-Men. But they're not real either, so it just goes right back around.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
How about humans and livestock?  Are those sufficiently different from each other?

Considering that the only reason we aren't basically equal to chimps and bonobos is at best, a combo of an evolutionary fluke and maybe some cultural differences, I wouldn't go too far with that.

There really isn't a good "real world" analogy.

The best I have is that mages are like nuclear weapons. With healing abilties, and mind control. And they are people, with squishy bits. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Beerfish]

In my opinion though we may be forced to go one way or the other for a portion of the game, in the end we will unite them because the horn heads will step into the equation and force them to unite to defeat the Qun menace.

This mage temeplar war is just the thing the Qunari have been waiting for. Once it starts the ships will sail from Par Vollen.

[General User]

Terrorize69 wrote...

I got an idea, maybe switch roles for 900 years lol. Let mages imprison anyone without magic... then in 900 years time when both have an equal view of the other side, they can reach a compromise xD

They did that already.  That was the Tevinter Imperium.

The Circles were the compromise.

Modifié par General User, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:01 .

[MisterJB]

Terrorize69 wrote...

I got an idea, maybe switch roles for 900 years lol. Let mages imprison anyone without magic... then in 900 years time when both have an equal view of the other side, they can reach a compromise xD

*facepalm*

It's called the Tevinter Emperium. And it's still going.

[Maria Caliban]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I see no viable long-term solution to the mage/mundane issue that doesn't involve the utter destruction of one group by the other.

That's because you're mad.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Maclimes wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I see no viable long-term solution to the mage/mundane issue that doesn't involve the utter destruction of one group by the other.

I agree. Destruction doesn't necessarily mean death, of course. (There's the "Turn everyone tranquil/turn everyone into a mage" variation, as well). Not arguing, since you didn't actually directly imply death. Just expounding on the concept.

Tranquillity can be reversed, as shown in Asunders.

[Palipride47]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...


Lyrium is addictive, leads to insanity and other mental problems, physical ailments, and the unrefined stuff straight up kills mages.

Not in a one-time dose.  The annulment passive ability does not require Hawke to keep on guzzling down lyrium. 

Gameplay wise, you don't.

Lore wise, you should, and Gaider has mentioned some issues regarding lyrium use in-game, because the templar powers do go away w/o lyrium, and you do have side effects. You can  handwave it with the lyrium smuggling underground in Kirkwall (I mean, you can work for a smuggler, I'm sure she can hook you up)

[The Elder King]

Terrorize69 wrote...

I got an idea, maybe switch roles for 900 years lol. Let mages imprison anyone without magic... then in 900 years time when both have an equal view of the other side, they can reach a compromise xD

Andraste was fighting against who and for what? For Tevinter cookies?

Modifié par hhh89, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Maria Caliban]

Gameplay wise, non-Grey Wardens can bathe in Darkspawn blood for an entire year and never get the Blight.

[Vandicus]

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

I got an idea, maybe switch roles for 900 years lol. Let mages imprison anyone without magic... then in 900 years time when both have an equal view of the other side, they can reach a compromise xD

Andraste was fighting against who and for what? For Tevinter cookies?

Nah, Andraste likes biscuits. Its Sten that wants the Tevinter cookies.

[Dhiro]

Palipride47 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...


Lyrium is addictive, leads to insanity and other mental problems, physical ailments, and the unrefined stuff straight up kills mages.

Not in a one-time dose.  The annulment passive ability does not require Hawke to keep on guzzling down lyrium. 

Gameplay wise, you don't.

Lore wise, you should, and Gaider has mentioned some issues regarding lyrium use in-game, because the templar powers do go away w/o lyrium, and you do have side effects. You can  handwave it with the lyrium smuggling underground in Kirkwall (I mean, you can work for a smuggler, I'm sure she can hook you up)

Hmm? Alistair can use templar abilities without lyrium, no? I believe he said that he never took any.

[Palipride47]

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

I got an idea, maybe switch roles for 900 years lol. Let mages imprison anyone without magic... then in 900 years time when both have an equal view of the other side, they can reach a compromise xD

Andraste was fighting against who and for what? For Tevinter cookies?

I sensed humor in his (or her) post. I guess no one else did. 

Maybe that's what the whole Qunari/Tevinter war is about. A Qunari found out (before Sten) about those delicous cookies. 


@ Dhiro, Gaider said something like, "well, it takes a while, blahblahblah, something or other...."
Then I read Asunder and Evageline is all like "After a week without some lyrium, I'll be useless"

Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:10 .