83 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

fchopin wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Thank you for destroying our last hope to play an elf or a dwarf in DA3.

I believe comments like this one and comments like these combine to form some kind lesson.

BioWare says, "We'll see" and a feature eventually doesn't turn up:  You teased us and let us down.
BioWare says, "This will not happen" and a feature does not happen:  You crushed our hopes!

 

I don't get the joke in your post but i am sure it makes you happy so enjoy.

Hmmm... I don't think he was making a joke.

[iSignIn]

David Gaider wrote...

I really doubt we'd ever do a player race as DLC-- that's an incredibly expensive proposition with questionable return.

My thoughts exactly.

And I know many players like me who don't give a toss about playing as other races.

So OP, I doubt EA will be hiring you any time soon because your idea is not going to make money like you presumed.

Modifié par iSignIn, 23 octobre 2012 - 11:57 .

[Foolsfolly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Thank you for destroying our last hope to play an elf or a dwarf in DA3.

I believe comments like this one and comments like these combine to form some kind lesson.

BioWare says, "We'll see" and a feature eventually doesn't turn up:  You teased us and let us down.
BioWare says, "This will not happen" and a feature does not happen:  You crushed our hopes!

 

Is the lesson "People are going to complain regardless?"

Because I'm fine with David Gaider saying a decision has not been reached yet and then nearly half a year later tell us what the decision was. I'm an adult. I know how decision making works. I can't speak for other BSN posters.

While I'm here, I'm very grateful for the back-and-forth BioWare has with its fans.

[fchopin]

I made a post about origin dlc's before the human only choice was announced as i knew we would not have any options again so i am not surprised on any of the comments.

The way i see it is either we pay extra for more origins or we will never get origins again from Bioware.

[Fast Jimmy]

David Gaider wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Then why did your games start having day-one DLC since the release of Mass Effect 2?

To make money.

The people who have a problem with this, and the implication made in the OP, is that this is something we would cut from the main game in order to sell as DLC. My impression from many of the people who have an issue with DLC in principle is that they believe all DLC consists of content which they would have otherwise received for free... presumably because, prior to DLC becoming a thing, games were "complete"?

It's logic I don't quite follow, and in the case of DA it's not true. There's not been a single piece of DLC which we've put out which would ever have existed in the main game otherwise. Even Shale, the only example I can think of regarding content which was made and then cut only to be put into DLC would simply have remained cut if it had never been resurrected... and you would never have known the difference, short of finding oddly-named uncut legacy lines in the dialogues.

I really doubt we'd ever do a player race as DLC-- that's an incredibly expensive proposition with questionable return. Unless it's something we did previous to ship and then just sold a switch to "turn it on", which I guess is what someone's suggesting here. But I can guarantee you we're not doing that. We'd likely get much more mileage just putting it in the main game... unless you actually think selling DLC aimed at the sub-set of fans who care most about this issue would have the kind of broad appeal that DLC generally needs. If that's the case, then gosh.

To play the Devil's Advocate (I know, I say that all of the time, I really need to build up my client base more, but he pays SO WELL), I'd say the fanbase appeal of multiple races could be sufficiently large enough for a standard DLC. After all, I'd say more people would request to play multiple races than would, say, like to play as the Darkspawn in DA:O, but that had its own DLC.

Now... as you state, the expense to put this in DLC form would be much more than your standard DLC. And, even if you were to break it down into a Kossith DLC, Dwarven DLC and Elven DLC and charge separately... I'm not sure the size limitations of Live and the PSN would be able to support it (as the majority of the content would likely be record voices,  which, as you know more than I, is quite the storage hog). And I'm also not sure if the costs would offset it or not (although ~$7 X 4 = roughly half the sticker price of your standard game, so who knows?)

Point being... the APPEAL may be wide enough to justify a DLC. But would that DLC meet fan expectations without costing more than almost any other DLC I've ever seen, or have to be cut into parts and sold separately, or be much more shallow than fan expectations would reflect? Those are questions I don't know. 

[Venomar]

While I know the idea of multiplayer has been met with mixed reaction, I'd be willing to bet that multiplayer will come with the ability to play multiple races - just like Mass Effect 3. So while it's a shame that race won't be an option for the single player campaign of DA3, I think Bioware will probably make up for this with the multiplayer.

[KENNY4753]

If you want to play as another race so bad that will probably be what MP is for. Similar to ME3 I expect us to have multiple races as playable characters in MP (things like Dalish First, Dwarf Warrior, Legion Scout, etc)

[Foolsfolly]

Fast Jimmy... no... just no. I wouldn't even want a Race DLC. And I feel I can speak for the entirety of the BSN when I say their reaction will be roughly "They're reselling us what was originally supposed to be in the game."

And there may even be a Take Back DA3 movement. It'll be partially tongue-in-check though.

[Gerry79]

Is the lesson "People are going to complain regardless?"

Because I'm fine with David Gaider saying a decision has not been reached yet and then nearly half a year later tell us what the decision was. I'm an adult. I know how decision making works. I can't speak for other BSN posters.

While I'm here, I'm very grateful for the back-and-forth BioWare has with its fans.

this .......

[fchopin]

They can put as many races as they like in MP, i will not be playing them.

[POETICDRINK]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Then why did your games start having day-one DLC since the release of Mass Effect 2?

To make money.

The people who have a problem with this, and the implication made in the OP, is that this is something we would cut from the main game in order to sell as DLC. My impression from many of the people who have an issue with DLC in principle is that they believe all DLC consists of content which they would have otherwise received for free... presumably because, prior to DLC becoming a thing, games were "complete"?

It's logic I don't quite follow, and in the case of DA it's not true. There's not been a single piece of DLC which we've put out which would ever have existed in the main game otherwise. Even Shale, the only example I can think of regarding content which was made and then cut only to be put into DLC would simply have remained cut if it had never been resurrected... and you would never have known the difference, short of finding oddly-named uncut legacy lines in the dialogues.

I really doubt we'd ever do a player race as DLC-- that's an incredibly expensive proposition with questionable return. Unless it's something we did previous to ship and then just sold a switch to "turn it on", which I guess is what someone's suggesting here. But I can guarantee you we're not doing that. We'd likely get much more mileage just putting it in the main game... unless you actually think selling DLC aimed at the sub-set of fans who care most about this issue would have the kind of broad appeal that DLC generally needs. If that's the case, then gosh.

To play the Devil's Advocate (I know, I say that all of the time, I really need to build up my client base more, but he pays SO WELL), I'd say the fanbase appeal of multiple races could be sufficiently large enough for a standard DLC. After all, I'd say more people would request to play multiple races than would, say, like to play as the Darkspawn in DA:O, but that had its own DLC.

Now... as you state, the expense to put this in DLC form would be much more than your standard DLC. And, even if you were to break it down into a Kossith DLC, Dwarven DLC and Elven DLC and charge separately... I'm not sure the size limitations of Live and the PSN would be able to support it (as the majority of the content would likely be record voices,  which, as you know more than I, is quite the storage hog). And I'm also not sure if the costs would offset it or not (although ~$7 X 4 = roughly half the sticker price of your standard game, so who knows?)

Point being... the APPEAL may be wide enough to justify a DLC. But would that DLC meet fan expectations without costing more than almost any other DLC I've ever seen, or have to be cut into parts and sold separately, or be much more shallow than fan expectations would reflect? Those are questions I don't know. 

I like this post and well said.

[Kidd]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Bioware is the kind of company that doesn't like to admit when they make mistakes.

*spills drink*

BG2, NWN's expansions, ME2, ME3, DA2, all have iterated a lot on top of its predessecors with attempts to keep what was good and change what was less good. Yes, sometimes you do not like the new product as much as the older one, but a lot of people didn't like all the time just wandering in BG1 so BG2 got a more focused experience, ME1's shooting mechanics left a lot to be desired by many and they got an overhaul, ME2 was lacking in choice of weapon customisation so it was fixed for ME3, DA2 made combat less clunky by adding closing attacks, heck they even gave us a free 2gb DLC to better a game's ending for us since we weren't happy with it.

Perspective is a wonderful thing.

[The Elder King]

KENNY4753 wrote...

If you want to play as another race so bad that will probably be what MP is for. Similar to ME3 I expect us to have multiple races as playable characters in MP (things like Dalish First, Dwarf Warrior, Legion Scout, etc)

People didn't want to merely fights as an elf or a dwarf. That would be possible in DA3 too. They want to play the main story, to experience dialogues, to make choices in the game, as an elf or a dwarf.
I'm not disappointed by this news (because I made up my mind months ago that I'll not be able to play as an elf or dwarf), but comparing playing as an elf in the SP to playing as an elf in MP is stupid, in my opinion.

[Genshie]

fchopin wrote...

They can put as many races as they like in MP, i will not be playing them.

So you just won't take "no" as an answer regardless of how many different times and ways its being said? Would you rather that they never have told you and you finding out when they game is released that you only play as human or now?

In this case when dealing with multiplayer if you will have no part in it when its the only other option (besides modding) to play as a different race I don't think you should be complaining when the offer is there. (Of course this is assuming that there will be any other races in multiplayer)

[PsychoBlonde]

John Epler wrote...

While I obviously can't state anything 100% for sure, as I am not prescient, I would put the odds of releasing DLC to allow you to play through the main campaign as a protagonist other than human as close to zero as to be more or less indistinguishable.

I would love to get a sideline DLC pack that let you play through a story in Kal'Sharok, though.  As a dwarf, of course.  Although I realize the sideline DLC's on Origins didn't do so well so maybe even this is a remote possibility.

[fchopin]

Genshie wrote...

fchopin wrote...

They can put as many races as they like in MP, i will not be playing them.

So you just won't take "no" as an answer regardless of how many different times and ways its being said? Would you rather that they never have told you and you finding out when they game is released that you only play as human or now?

In this case when dealing with multiplayer if you will have no part in it when its the only other option (besides modding) to play as a different race I don't think you should be complaining when the offer is there. (Of course this is assuming that there will be any other races in multiplayer)

I think you are mistaken, i have already excepted that we will only play a human character in DA3 and i think many people knew this a long time ago so i dont think they are surprised.
I have no problem, i don't play MP so it does not bother me what they do with MP as long as it is not linked to SP.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

David Gaider wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Then why did your games start having day-one DLC since the release of Mass Effect 2?

To make money.

The people who have a problem with this, and the implication made in the OP, is that this is something we would cut from the main game in order to sell as DLC. My impression from many of the people who have an issue with DLC in principle is that they believe all DLC consists of content which they would have otherwise received for free... presumably because, prior to DLC becoming a thing, games were "complete"?

It's logic I don't quite follow, and in the case of DA it's not true. There's not been a single piece of DLC which we've put out which would ever have existed in the main game otherwise. Even Shale, the only example I can think of regarding content which was made and then cut only to be put into DLC would simply have remained cut if it had never been resurrected... and you would never have known the difference, short of finding oddly-named uncut legacy lines in the dialogues.

I really doubt we'd ever do a player race as DLC-- that's an incredibly expensive proposition with questionable return. Unless it's something we did previous to ship and then just sold a switch to "turn it on", which I guess is what someone's suggesting here. But I can guarantee you we're not doing that. We'd likely get much more mileage just putting it in the main game... unless you actually think selling DLC aimed at the sub-set of fans who care most about this issue would have the kind of broad appeal that DLC generally needs. If that's the case, then gosh.

So, I am to be placed in the "anti-DLC" category of posters for simply asking a question that doesn't even imply that I don't like DLC?

[Fast Jimmy]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Fast Jimmy... no... just no. I wouldn't even want a Race DLC. And I feel I can speak for the entirety of the BSN when I say their reaction will be roughly "They're reselling us what was originally supposed to be in the game."

And there may even be a Take Back DA3 movement. It'll be partially tongue-in-check though.

Then we will Retake DA3... and the franchise will be MINE! MWUHAHAHHAAAAA!



Wait... was that outloud?






In all seriousness, I wouldn't want them to do Race DLC, especially INDIVIDUAL race DLCs. It would seem shameless and tacky, even if it might be the only way they could pull it off. 

Unless... of course... they allowed you to purchase membership into some sort program where future DLC was cheaper... almost like a discount... A discount for DLC...

But who would be crazy enough to think up something like that?

[Wynne]

Blair Brown wrote...

We are listening to the fans, and reading posts, and following twitters.  One of the side side projects I work on in my extra time is to collegiate the thread "top 5 things you want in da3" and relay that information to the lead producers. 

That's really cool. Thank you for doing it. 

[Mark of the Dragon]

Why do people keep saying that it was one of the biggest complaints? How would anyone besides Bioware know that? I mean seriously I would wager that only a small percentage of people who play Bioware games actually take part in the forums. It is ridiculous to think that because a few posts asked for race selection back, posts that most likely had the same users replying to them, means the majority wanted it back.
Point is just because we see the same topic crop up does not mean the Majority wants it. In fact if that was the case I would say I heard more people say they preferred a voiced character to race selection. There is no proof this was one of the largest complaints.
Furthermore no one has proof that Bioware cut content to make DLC. Saying so without evidence does not garner support. Enough with these conspiracy theories people. Let Bioware make the game they feel is best!

P.S. Sorry if I sound jerkish or anything but everyday I get on here I see more and more of these theories.

Modifié par Mark of the Dragon, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:48 .

[Pauravi]

POETICDRINK wrote...

I'm thinking EA/BIOWARE is doing a business move by not giving fans the other races.

Based on what?

POETICDRINK wrote...

It's not like fans haven't been asking for this after the choice was taken away in Dragon Age II.

They didn't take anything away.  They made an entirely new game and simply didn't include the option.  This could have been for any number of reasons, from them believing that the story made more sense with a human-only protagonist, to them simply not having enough time to properly implement it.  In fact it is likely that BOTH of those things are true.  Everyone agrees that DA2's development was rushed, but consider that Hawke's family was nobility.  An elven or dwarven family in such a position is preposterous.  Even if you suppose that the Hawkes were human and the protagonist was simply adopted, an elven protagonist being regarded as a nobleman by others in the second act is equally preposterous.

Anyway, all that is fluff.  The point is that options like race selection are not simply an option that you put a little checkbox by or not.  It is something that has to be purposely and meaningfully integrated into each story on a game-by-game basis and, IMO, people treat the decision far too simplistically.

POETICDRINK wrote...

BIOWARE said, they were listening to the fans when they started making Dragon Age III. So, how can they leave out one of the largest complaints amongst fans.
I'm thinking they are going to push it as DLC. It's no way they could have left this out on purpose. They need their DLC to be extra, to sell well to fans of this series.

You sure do like to jump to wild hand-waving conclusions.  You start with "They left out X option that people wanted, how could they do that?"  And conclude immediately that "it must be ____", based on absolutely no other information.  I might point out that DA2 didn't include races as DLC despite having a human-only protagonist.

It is perfectly possible that the plot simply works better that way, or that they felt that more meaningful dialogue or tightly integrated story events could be added if the players race were not a variable.  Like I said, you have to quit treating this race issue as if it were some simple yes or no checkbox.

[coldsteelblue]

Ok, first & foremost, multiple races in DA:O increased replayability, as you could enjoy the campaing through different perspectives, but, that was canned for DA2, for one of these 3 reasons, take your pick.

1: The Hawke story was a concept for DA:O as an attempt for a fantasy style ME.
2: The writers had writer block & couldn't continue the story from DA:O/come up with a new multi-race story.
3: EA wanted to bring in a wider audience, so they gave the game a simpler, wider appeal, thus bringing in new fans, but alienating the originals.
Either way, the protagonist os to be fully voiced & that means Human, I know Human's are as stale as they come in fantasy & with the setup of the DA universe the worst character to play, but they have the broadest appeal. Be honest here, how many people would buy the game if you were another race only?
Whilst I would sell my right arm to be able to play as a different race, I can't.
The bad news is you're going to have to get used to it.

[POETICDRINK]

coldsteelblue wrote...

Ok, first & foremost, multiple races in DA:O increased replayability, as you could enjoy the campaing through different perspectives, but, that was canned for DA2, for one of these 3 reasons, take your pick.

1: The Hawke story was a concept for DA:O as an attempt for a fantasy style ME.
2: The writers had writer block & couldn't continue the story from DA:O/come up with a new multi-race story.
3: EA wanted to bring in a wider audience, so they gave the game a simpler, wider appeal, thus bringing in new fans, but alienating the originals.
Either way, the protagonist os to be fully voiced & that means Human, I know Human's are as stale as they come in fantasy & with the setup of the DA universe the worst character to play, but they have the broadest appeal. Be honest here, how many people would buy the game if you were another race only?
Whilst I would sell my right arm to be able to play as a different race, I can't.
The bad news is you're going to have to get used to it.

I agree and can accept this if this is the case.

[KENNY4753]

hhh89 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

If you want to play as another race so bad that will probably be what MP is for. Similar to ME3 I expect us to have multiple races as playable characters in MP (things like Dalish First, Dwarf Warrior, Legion Scout, etc)

People didn't want to merely fights as an elf or a dwarf. That would be possible in DA3 too. They want to play the main story, to experience dialogues, to make choices in the game, as an elf or a dwarf.
I'm not disappointed by this news (because I made up my mind months ago that I'll not be able to play as an elf or dwarf), but comparing playing as an elf in the SP to playing as an elf in MP is stupid, in my opinion.

I know2 that and I was one of those people. I would have loved to play through DA3's story as a Dalish Elf. I am just saying that that is how things will end up