83 réponses à ce sujet

[John Epler]

fchopin wrote...

John Epler wrote...

While I obviously can't state anything 100% for sure, as I am not prescient, I would put the odds of releasing DLC to allow you to play through the main campaign as a protagonist other than human as close to zero as to be more or less indistinguishable.

Thank you for destroying our last hope to play an elf or a dwarf in DA3.

Would you rather I lie and tell you 'yes, we're likely to do DLC that has the potential to be a notable percentage as expensive to create as the main game and we'll still sell it to you for regular DLC prices'? Because that -would- be a lie. I have a fairly good idea of the resource requirements, and while I'm obviously not privy to any future plans, I would be very, very surprised if we were ever to do this.

If you see that as me 'destroying your last hope', that's your call, but the alternative is to lie and say 'maybe we'd do it!', and I'm pretty sure you'd be excorciating me were I to do that. So I guess the lesson here is 'some people will criticize anything' in which case, fair enough.

[Sanunes]

coldsteelblue wrote...

Ok, first & foremost, multiple races in DA:O increased replayability, as you could enjoy the campaing through different perspectives, but, that was canned for DA2, for one of these 3 reasons, take your pick.

1: The Hawke story was a concept for DA:O as an attempt for a fantasy style ME.
2: The writers had writer block & couldn't continue the story from DA:O/come up with a new multi-race story.
3: EA wanted to bring in a wider audience, so they gave the game a simpler, wider appeal, thus bringing in new fans, but alienating the originals.
Either way, the protagonist os to be fully voiced & that means Human, I know Human's are as stale as they come in fantasy & with the setup of the DA universe the worst character to play, but they have the broadest appeal. Be honest here, how many people would buy the game if you were another race only?
Whilst I would sell my right arm to be able to play as a different race, I can't.
The bad news is you're going to have to get used to it.

Really, adding the additional races didn't increase Replayability for me except I played each "origin" and had two or three complete games and one was a Elven Mage for normally if I have the option that is my choice. During my playthoughs I really don't remember the game changing that much based on my origin. If the human origins work the same way I am hearing I am going to be definately more interested in those if there are reprocussions throughout the entire game.

I think one of the main reasons why they are sticking with a Human protagonist is simply because they didn't feel they could do justice to having different races besides having a slightly different looking avatar. I remember a post by David Gaider he said that approximately 80% of the characters created in Origins were Human and about 15% was elves and the rest were dwarves, so I highly doubt its a feature "everyone" wants.

[Heimdall]

The difference in backstories offered by Origins appealed to me, but the novelty of race choice in and of itself was only a small factor.

[CommanderVyse]

John Epler wrote...

fchopin wrote...

John Epler wrote...

While I obviously can't state anything 100% for sure, as I am not prescient, I would put the odds of releasing DLC to allow you to play through the main campaign as a protagonist other than human as close to zero as to be more or less indistinguishable.

Thank you for destroying our last hope to play an elf or a dwarf in DA3.

Would you rather I lie and tell you 'yes, we're likely to do DLC that has the potential to be a notable percentage as expensive to create as the main game and we'll still sell it to you for regular DLC prices'? Because that -would- be a lie. I have a fairly good idea of the resource requirements, and while I'm obviously not privy to any future plans, I would be very, very surprised if we were ever to do this.

If you see that as me 'destroying your last hope', that's your call, but the alternative is to lie and say 'maybe we'd do it!', and I'm pretty sure you'd be excorciating me were I to do that. So I guess the lesson here is 'some people will criticize anything' in which case, fair enough.

I am completely fine with any Bioware employee promising that a feature will not be in the game and sticking to that promise, than to have promises be broken.....again.

[Allan Schumacher]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Then why did your games start having day-one DLC since the release of Mass Effect 2?

To make money.

The people who have a problem with this, and the implication made in the OP, is that this is something we would cut from the main game in order to sell as DLC. My impression from many of the people who have an issue with DLC in principle is that they believe all DLC consists of content which they would have otherwise received for free... presumably because, prior to DLC becoming a thing, games were "complete"?

It's logic I don't quite follow, and in the case of DA it's not true. There's not been a single piece of DLC which we've put out which would ever have existed in the main game otherwise. Even Shale, the only example I can think of regarding content which was made and then cut only to be put into DLC would simply have remained cut if it had never been resurrected... and you would never have known the difference, short of finding oddly-named uncut legacy lines in the dialogues.

I really doubt we'd ever do a player race as DLC-- that's an incredibly expensive proposition with questionable return. Unless it's something we did previous to ship and then just sold a switch to "turn it on", which I guess is what someone's suggesting here. But I can guarantee you we're not doing that. We'd likely get much more mileage just putting it in the main game... unless you actually think selling DLC aimed at the sub-set of fans who care most about this issue would have the kind of broad appeal that DLC generally needs. If that's the case, then gosh.

So, I am to be placed in the "anti-DLC" category of posters for simply asking a question that doesn't even imply that I don't like DLC?

I think you're reading more into David's response than is actually there.

[LobselVith8]

KENNY4753 wrote...

I know2 that and I was one of those people. I would have loved to play through DA3's story as a Dalish Elf. I am just saying that that is how things will end up.

I would have enjoyed the opportunity to experience the expanse of Thedas as a Dalish elf as well. They have history with Tevinter and Orlais, and can provide a unique experience based on their cultural background and heritage.

[KENNY4753]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

I know2 that and I was one of those people. I would have loved to play through DA3's story as a Dalish Elf. I am just saying that that is how things will end up.

I would have enjoyed the opportunity to experience the expanse of Thedas as a Dalish elf as well. They have history with Tevinter and Orlais, and can provide a unique experience based on their cultural background and heritage.

Yeah I agree. Hopefully we at least get a cool Dalish Companion if not Merrill, Velanna, or even Lanaya (Zathrian's First, although she can easily die so that wouldn't really work).

[MagmaSaiyan]

Sanunes wrote...

coldsteelblue wrote...

Ok, first & foremost, multiple races in DA:O increased replayability, as you could enjoy the campaing through different perspectives, but, that was canned for DA2, for one of these 3 reasons, take your pick.

1: The Hawke story was a concept for DA:O as an attempt for a fantasy style ME.
2: The writers had writer block & couldn't continue the story from DA:O/come up with a new multi-race story.
3: EA wanted to bring in a wider audience, so they gave the game a simpler, wider appeal, thus bringing in new fans, but alienating the originals.
Either way, the protagonist os to be fully voiced & that means Human, I know Human's are as stale as they come in fantasy & with the setup of the DA universe the worst character to play, but they have the broadest appeal. Be honest here, how many people would buy the game if you were another race only?
Whilst I would sell my right arm to be able to play as a different race, I can't.
The bad news is you're going to have to get used to it.

Really, adding the additional races didn't increase Replayability for me except I played each "origin" and had two or three complete games and one was a Elven Mage for normally if I have the option that is my choice. During my playthoughs I really don't remember the game changing that much based on my origin. If the human origins work the same way I am hearing I am going to be definately more interested in those if there are reprocussions throughout the entire game.

I think one of the main reasons why they are sticking with a Human protagonist is simply because they didn't feel they could do justice to having different races besides having a slightly different looking avatar. I remember a post by David Gaider he said that approximately 80% of the characters created in Origins were Human and about 15% was elves and the rest were dwarves, so I highly doubt its a feature "everyone" wants.

and you would be slightly correct Sanunes, but did occur to anyone that it easily could be these true reasons?

1.money(voice actors)
2. resources(possibly)
3. story

given that Bioware had these taken care of dont you think they would bring back different races? but i think its also because they wanted to establish the world with Origins, and see the back story of each race, which isnt really needed in future games unless they feel they have to add them.

Modifié par MagmaSaiyan, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:31 .

[LobselVith8]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Yeah I agree. Hopefully we at least get a cool Dalish Companion if not Merrill, Velanna, or even Lanaya (Zathrian's First, although she can easily die so that wouldn't really work).

All three of them can die, although I thought they were really good characters. Lanaya became the new Keeper when my Warden convinced Zathrian to give up his anger, Velanna found a friend in my Warden before she disappeared during the assault on Warden's Keep, and my apostate Hawke romanced Merrill. I think Ariane is the only Dalish companion who doesn't die, and her fate hasn't been revealed since the conclusion of Witch Hunt.

Whether it's someone new, or a returning character, it would be interesting to get a Dalish companion who can shed some more light on the culture of the People, especially with the civil war going on in Orlais and the Templar-Mage war (apparently) erupting across Thedas. If the Dalish ever considered trying to take back their territory in the Dales, Orlais seems fairly vulnerable at the moment. Perhaps we can get some insight into a Dalish character's response to Orlais and Tevinter through a companion of the People.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:41 .

[Rawgrim]

I wouldn`t be surprised if we get multiplayer DLC`s with other races in them.

[KENNY4753]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Yeah I agree. Hopefully we at least get a cool Dalish Companion if not Merrill, Velanna, or even Lanaya (Zathrian's First, although she can easily die so that wouldn't really work).

All three of them can die, although I thought they were really good characters. Lanaya became the new Keeper when my Warden convinced Zathrian to give up his anger, Velanna found a friend in my Warden before she disappeared during the assault on Warden's Keep, and my apostate Hawke romanced Merrill. I think Ariane is the only Dalish companion who doesn't die, and her fate hasn't been revealed since the conclusion of Witch Hunt.

Whether it's someone new, or a returning character, it would be interesting to get a Dalish companion who can shed some more light on the culture of the People, especially with the civil war going on in Orlais and the Templar-Mage war (apparently) erupting across Thedas. If the Dalish ever considered trying to take back their territory in the Dales, Orlais seems fairly vulnerable at the moment. Perhaps we can get some insight into a Dalish character's response to Orlais and Tevinter through a companion of the People.

The way you said it is pretty much the way it was for my canon (Dailsh Rogue Warden). Lanaya Keeper after I convinced Zathrian to lift the curse, Merrill romanced by my apostate Hawke, although I saved the Keep so Velanna disappeared into the Deep Roads for me.

I agree though that Arianne will likely be the Dalish Companion if we get one (a lot of fans want her so I could see it happening). It would be very cool to see the Dalish point of view of everything, especially since Orlais is likely the major setting.

My theory though is that since no matter what Warden you are if the Dalish were recruited in DA:O they still get land in Ferelden but it didn't go well and Alistair said he would make it up to the Dailsh as well as that there was tension rising with Orlais that Ferelden might assist the Dalish in retaking the Dales. That would be awesome.

[LobselVith8]

KENNY4753 wrote...

The way you said it is pretty much the way it was for my canon (Dalish Rogue Warden). Lanaya Keeper after I convinced Zathrian to lift the curse. Merrill romanced by my apostate Hawke, although I saved the Keep so Velanna disappeared into the Deep Roads for me.

Yeah, I thought it was great to see Lanaya take up the mantle of Keeper. She had such a horrific childhood, but she rose above it all, and through her trials and tribulations she earned her place as First. It was interesting to encounter the Dalish with my Surana Warden; I was curious what their view were towards the elven mages in the Circle Towers; I recall Ariane notes that an elven mage escaped to her clan.

Wondering if the fate of the Sabrae clan will be addressed. I thought it was melancholy how Merrill spent nearly a decade trying to change the plight of the People, and might only be supported in her efforts by Hawke.

KENNY4753 wrote...

My theory is that since no matter what Warden you are if the Dalish were recruited in DA:O they still get land in Ferelden but it didn't go well and Alistair said he would make it up to the Dalish as well as that there was tension rising with Orlais that Ferelden might assist the Dalish in retaking the Dales. That would be awesome.

I can picture the Dalish seeing the advantage in striking to reclaim the occupied Dales with Orlais in a civil war, and the rest of the world engaged in the Templar-Mage War. It would be the perfect time to strike and reclaim their nation. Perhaps the protagonist might play a role, especially if Ariane or another Dalish companion argued on behalf of the People.

[KENNY4753]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Yeah, I thought it was great to see Lanaya take up the mantle of Keeper. She had such a horrific childhood, but she rose above it all, and through her trials and tribulations she earned her place as First. It was interesting to encounter the Dalish with my Surana Warden; I was curious what their view were towards the elven mages in the Circle Towers; I recall Ariane notes that an elven mage escaped to her clan.

Wondering if the fate of the Sabrae clan will be addressed. I thought it was melancholy how Merrill spent nearly a decade trying to change the plight of the People, and might only be supported in her efforts by Hawke.

Yeah, Lanaya is one of those characters who I really wish to learn more about. She was really interesting with her past and how the epilogue states that she leads the clan settling disputes and things like that.

The Sabrae Clan survived in my game so I do want to know what happened to them. Like who took over as Keeper after Meretharil, and where they went after Act 3. I also wonder what ever happened to Ashalle.

I can picture the Dalish seeing the advantage in striking to reclaim the occupied Dales with Orlais in a civil war, and the rest of the world engaged in the Templar-Mage War. It would be the perfect time to strike and reclaim their nation. Perhaps the protagonist might play a role, especially if Ariane or another Dalish companion argued on behalf of the People.

If they do then my Warden better be leading the charge against those dang French 

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Then why did your games start having day-one DLC since the release of Mass Effect 2?

To make money.

The people who have a problem with this, and the implication made in the OP, is that this is something we would cut from the main game in order to sell as DLC. My impression from many of the people who have an issue with DLC in principle is that they believe all DLC consists of content which they would have otherwise received for free... presumably because, prior to DLC becoming a thing, games were "complete"?

It's logic I don't quite follow, and in the case of DA it's not true. There's not been a single piece of DLC which we've put out which would ever have existed in the main game otherwise. Even Shale, the only example I can think of regarding content which was made and then cut only to be put into DLC would simply have remained cut if it had never been resurrected... and you would never have known the difference, short of finding oddly-named uncut legacy lines in the dialogues.

I really doubt we'd ever do a player race as DLC-- that's an incredibly expensive proposition with questionable return. Unless it's something we did previous to ship and then just sold a switch to "turn it on", which I guess is what someone's suggesting here. But I can guarantee you we're not doing that. We'd likely get much more mileage just putting it in the main game... unless you actually think selling DLC aimed at the sub-set of fans who care most about this issue would have the kind of broad appeal that DLC generally needs. If that's the case, then gosh.

So, I am to be placed in the "anti-DLC" category of posters for simply asking a question that doesn't even imply that I don't like DLC?

I think you're reading more into David's response than is actually there.

I just want to be clear about this. Anyone who criticizes day-one DLC is not "anti-DLC". I love DLC and I think it's one of the great things to come out of this generation and extends the life of games. But day-one DLC offends me as a consumer. I'm already paying $60 for a damn video game, and ontop of that, you guys want to add additional content on launch day that can only be accessed if I fork over ten more dollars? That's bull****.

That's not something I want to support and I think it's shameful. I get it, you guys are a business and your're trying to make as much as you can with every game you release. But the games you put out sell millions of copies at $60 and $80 for limited edition copies. I don't think EA is hurting so much for money that they have to sell day-one DLC alongside their games.

If you're going to make DLC, that's fine. But do it after the game has already been out for a while. That's when people want DLC. The only reason people wanted From Ashes so bad was because they were heavily invested in the lore and the character you got was a Prothean. Those people felt like they were missing out on something critical to the game. Even if it wasn't, they felt like EA (and Bioware) was trying to rip them off.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 24 octobre 2012 - 04:30 .

[SmokePants]

I'm sure you people will get your exotic race selection with the DA3 multiplayer, which I expect to be similar to ME3's multiplayer.

[dheer]

This seems to be the bargaining phase. I understand it and shared it for a little while the other day after the disappointing news came out.

It's just sad that the creators thought the feedback from people who wanted racial choices back after DA2 was of so little import.

[LobselVith8]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Yeah, Lanaya is one of those characters who I really wish to learn more about. She was really interesting with her past and how the epilogue states that she leads the clan settling disputes and things like that.

Lanaya came across as an effective leader. I imagine her role as a war leader during the Fifth Blight might have cultivated in a reputation among the other clans. If the clans are meeting for the Arlathvhen, I imagine Lanaya might make a return to Dragon Age.

KENNY4753 wrote...

The Sabrae Clan survived in my game so I do want to know what happened to them. Like who took over as Keeper after Marethari, and where they went after Act 3. I also wonder what ever happened to Ashalle.

Mary Kirby said Ashalle was managing the Dalish Boon in Ferelden. I don't know where Ashalle is for the respective runs where the Hero of Ferelden wasn't Dalish.

My apostate Hawke didn't take it too well when the hunters threatened Merrill, so a battle ensued. I imagine some of the Sabrae Clan remained, given the separation between game mechanics and the story; I really doubt Feynriel's mother and the others would have committed suicide by Hawke over what happened to Marethari.

Merrill does mention that there was already a new First to the Sabrae Clan by Act III, so I imagine this person would have taken over with Marethari's demise. I can see Merrill (potentially) taking on the templars in the seat of templar power over eastern Thedas would have gotten the notice of some of the clans, given the bad blood that exists between the Dalish and the Order of Templars over what happened to the Dales. Maybe we might learn what the other clans think about Merrill and her potential infamy with the templars.

[Iron_JG]

It needs to be reiterated for some people, I think, that the resource cost of implementing multiple races has not remained static from DAO to DA2. Much of this comes from a voiced PC, but also from the layers of social and geographic separation between and within each race.

People also forget that their definitions of "playable races" are very subjective. I think most people aren't defining the feature as simply an aesthetic and/or statistical one. They want race to heavily impact the story -- and if it's implemented, it absolutely should. Therein lies the problem. Finite resources means budgeting features, and implementing race shallowly would screw with the story, because it likely wouldn't fully account for very different racial perspectives. More to the point, what are you willing to sacrifice for well-developed race options? If you answer, "nothing," then, frankly, you are being childish.

I would love to play other races again, and I would sacrifice voiced PCs and happily revert to an isometric perspective more similar to BG to make the mute PC less jarring. Does that mean I didn't enjoy the cinematic elements of DAO and DA2? Of course not, and I liked Hawke. I am willing to ask, however, "what can Bioware give us in exchange for race options?" and then judge the game on the developers' response.

The only feature I'd condemn on face value is implementing MP, which diverts resources from the single-player campaign. If I want MP fantasy, I'll go to Blizzard.

Modifié par Iron_JG, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Malsumis]

I don't get this, the whole point of playing a different race is to see how the world reacts differently to the PC.

As DLC it would be nothing but a cosmetic change, that would most likely back parts of the story and other NPCs.

I'll admit though while lack of multiple choice for race doesn't change anything for me, because I play human anyway. I'm always disappointed by the removal of choice, something happening far too much in bio games.

How much more choice will we see removed for the sake of cinematic presentation and/or story?

[Sharn01]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Is there a place where I can bet real money against your prediction?

I'll take that bet, but only if the game includes multiplayer and multiplayer exclusive DLC counts.

[Sanunes]

Malsumis wrote...

I don't get this, the whole point of playing a different race is to see how the world reacts differently to the PC.

As DLC it would be nothing but a cosmetic change, that would most likely back parts of the story and other NPCs.

I'll admit though while lack of multiple choice for race doesn't change anything for me, because I play human anyway. I'm always disappointed by the removal of choice, something happening far too much in bio games.

How much more choice will we see removed for the sake of cinematic presentation and/or story?

My opinion is that there was very little difference between playing any of the other races in Dragon Age: Origins and now that they are voicing the protagionist the cost of developing those choices is much higher, both finanically and resources, for its not just the protagionst that will be impacted with having a different race, but it could be many different NPCs including family if they are including them, for having a high elf living with a human family would raise the ire of these boards because it wouldn't make sense or have a satisfactory reasoning for some. Instead of having different races, they are giving us the option of having a different background choice instead, but I am not going to expect a lot so I am not disappointed in what is delivered. 

Personally, I think the perception of losing choice in BioWare games is what you consider a choice, for I know people that consider some of the decisions made in Mass Effect 1 to be a choice, but I don't for there isn't an impact on the game.

[Sanunes]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

-snip- 

I just want to be clear about this. Anyone who criticizes day-one DLC is not "anti-DLC". I love DLC and I think it's one of the great things to come out of this generation and extends the life of games. But day-one DLC offends me as a consumer. I'm already paying $60 for a damn video game, and ontop of that, you guys want to add additional content on launch day that can only be accessed if I fork over ten more dollars? That's bull****.

That's not something I want to support and I think it's shameful. I get it, you guys are a business and your're trying to make as much as you can with every game you release. But the games you put out sell millions of copies at $60 and $80 for limited edition copies. I don't think EA is hurting so much for money that they have to sell day-one DLC alongside their games.

If you're going to make DLC, that's fine. But do it after the game has already been out for a while. That's when people want DLC. The only reason people wanted From Ashes so bad was because they were heavily invested in the lore and the character you got was a Prothean. Those people felt like they were missing out on something critical to the game. Even if it wasn't, they felt like EA (and Bioware) was trying to rip them off.

The way I look at Day 1 DLC is that if they decided to wait to release or start working on the DLC until after the game as been out for awhile there is the risk of layoffs from the main team and then you won't have the same people working on the DLC that worked on the main game impacting the quality of the DLC.  For I am pretty sure any business wouldn't keep people on payroll just to sharpen pencils at their desk all day and wait until their customers deem that its a good time for them to work on a new product.

[POETICDRINK]

I'm liking the ongoing discussion in this thread. If the races DLC have for multiplayer this will almost fit into my original post. Companion or Main character, I was mostly meaning as companions. I know people are going to complain regardless what, but if we get companions as DLC the complaining may be louder.

[DaringMoosejaw]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

If you're going to make DLC, that's fine. But do it after the game has already been out for a while. That's when people want DLC. The only reason people wanted From Ashes so bad was because they were heavily invested in the lore and the character you got was a Prothean. Those people felt like they were missing out on something critical to the game. Even if it wasn't, they felt like EA (and Bioware) was trying to rip them off.

This is actually very untrue. DLC sales for games usually taper off immensely about 2 or 3 months after the original game is released - people have already moved on to other things and not nearly as many come back for the DLC. There's a window where they have to put it out in order to get maximum interest, and that's what it is.

The reason people complain about day-one DLC is that they don't understand the development cycle of that DLC. If there wasn't day-one DLC, you'd just have teams sitting around doing nothing during the last stages of the cycle - as if having them wait a month to release it would be any better. Just like a dog who's master walks out the door and becomes convinced he'll never come back again, just because there's day-one DLC doesn't mean they just cut out some content before release and sold it back to you. Just because people can't comprehend it doesn't make it any less true.

[Sanunes]

POETICDRINK wrote...

I'm liking the ongoing discussion in this thread. If the races DLC have for multiplayer this will almost fit into my original post. Companion or Main character, I was mostly meaning as companions. I know people are going to complain regardless what, but if we get companions as DLC the complaining may be louder.

Honestly, I think DLC companions would have less complaints just because they are companions, but any major changes to the protagionist would be a huge issue because that impacts the entire game.  Besides I am not sure if they would even do a multiplayer part of the game for it doesn't seem to fit well for me, Mass Effect 3 did well because you played an unrelated team cleaning up hot spots.  From what I understand from that EA interview is they wanted a "social aspect" to the game which to me could mean just another Facebook game like what was available for both Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2.