Do you guys want the option to hold two longswords as a warrior, or would you all prefer sword and shield or greatsword? The DA II way or DA:O way?
Two-handed Warriors returning?
Débuté par
Toki
, oct. 23 2012 11:25
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#2
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 11:32
Pinely
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I'd like to have dual wielding for warriors return in DA3.
I liked that DA2 made sword and shield and two handed roughly equal in single target DPS, but with different advantages. SnS offered greater protection at the cost of AOE damage, with 2H offering less protection but much more AOE damage. I'd want dual wielding to fit into that model somehow. Perhaps give dual wielding even less AOE than SnS, but more single target damage than SnS or 2H. I'm not sure on that element, but I liked having viable options in DA2, even if SnS or 2H were better are specific times.
I liked that DA2 made sword and shield and two handed roughly equal in single target DPS, but with different advantages. SnS offered greater protection at the cost of AOE damage, with 2H offering less protection but much more AOE damage. I'd want dual wielding to fit into that model somehow. Perhaps give dual wielding even less AOE than SnS, but more single target damage than SnS or 2H. I'm not sure on that element, but I liked having viable options in DA2, even if SnS or 2H were better are specific times.
#3
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 11:33
Direwolf0294
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FYI, when people say two handed warrior they generally mean a warrior using a 2 handed weapon like a greatsword, not a warrior using two one handed weapons, which is generally known as dual wielding.
Personally I hope it returns. I have no idea why they cut it in the first place. Weapon restrictions are never fun.
Personally I hope it returns. I have no idea why they cut it in the first place. Weapon restrictions are never fun.
#4
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 11:37
Imp of the Perverse
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I think it would be good, more options is always better, especially if they can think up a third weapon for rogues as well. Tallis's throwing knives I guess? Ranged combat but with more damaging melee than archers get.
#5
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 11:40
marshalleck
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That's what I initially thought. I was like "returning? when did they leave?"Direwolf0294 wrote...
FYI, when people say two handed warrior they generally mean a warrior using a 2 handed weapon like a greatsword, not a warrior using two one handed weapons, which is generally known as dual wielding.
The main problem with dual-wielding warriors is they often feel too much like dual-wielding rogues, but with more health and armor at the cost of utility skills which are far from important, let alone essential. It's an easy trade to make when giving up lockpicking means you're only passing on items literally called "Junk." And then you have a balance problem. If Bioware want to place renewed emphasis on lockpicking, stealth, trapping, etc. then rogues will still have a place, and players will have to ask themselves which characters are a better fit for their party. Otherwise there will be no reason to take a lower health, less armored melee combatant around when you could put a dual-wielding warrior in their place.
Modifié par marshalleck, 23 octobre 2012 - 11:41 .
#6
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 11:42
Guest_Puddi III_*
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No, but I support mutant triple wielding warriors.
#7
Guest_Tancred Of The Chantry_*
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 11:58
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I agree with Pinely.
Yes, making Rogues the sole dual-wielders (and archers) differentiated them and Warriors some more, and the great weapon warrior was improved and balanced better against the sword-and-shield variant. But, from a role-playing perspective, I like the option to be a warrior who focuses on dual-wielding (or ranged weapons, for that matter). It felt aesthetically appropriate for a warrior who, for example, decided to go with the Berkserker or Reaver specializations. Although that's possibly a little bit of Warhammer influence creeping in. A raging dwarf wielding two weapons is the iconic image of the Slayers in Warhammer Fantasy. And the Barbarian from the Diablo series, now that I think of it.
Of course, Dragon Age can differentiate itself from other fantasy games however it wants. If Rogues are the sole archers and dual-wielders, so be it. But, I admit, if it continues with DA3--even if, as others mention, mechanically it makes sense to do so--I will sigh softly. Might even say "alas" as I create a character.
Yes, making Rogues the sole dual-wielders (and archers) differentiated them and Warriors some more, and the great weapon warrior was improved and balanced better against the sword-and-shield variant. But, from a role-playing perspective, I like the option to be a warrior who focuses on dual-wielding (or ranged weapons, for that matter). It felt aesthetically appropriate for a warrior who, for example, decided to go with the Berkserker or Reaver specializations. Although that's possibly a little bit of Warhammer influence creeping in. A raging dwarf wielding two weapons is the iconic image of the Slayers in Warhammer Fantasy. And the Barbarian from the Diablo series, now that I think of it.
Of course, Dragon Age can differentiate itself from other fantasy games however it wants. If Rogues are the sole archers and dual-wielders, so be it. But, I admit, if it continues with DA3--even if, as others mention, mechanically it makes sense to do so--I will sigh softly. Might even say "alas" as I create a character.
Modifié par Tancred Of The Chantry, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:21 .
#8
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:08
AppealToReason
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I actually didn't even notice it was gone until my third playthrough of DA2.
Although I can see why they removed it as far a niches go. Makes the class specialization more than just secondary/out of combat abilities between the rogue and the warrior. If they brought it back then it would be a tanky but less DPS version of the rogue in combat. So what really becomes the point of a DW rogue besides lock picking?
Although I can see why they removed it as far a niches go. Makes the class specialization more than just secondary/out of combat abilities between the rogue and the warrior. If they brought it back then it would be a tanky but less DPS version of the rogue in combat. So what really becomes the point of a DW rogue besides lock picking?
#9
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:21
MillKill
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One of the many reasons Origins had terrible combat was that Rogues and Warriors felt the same. classes should remain distinct. Two melee dps classes make both dual-wielding Warriors and dual-wielding Rogues feel less special.
I wouldn't mind new weapon styles for both classes, though. Polearm warriors and one-handed rapier rogues could both be fun.
I wouldn't mind new weapon styles for both classes, though. Polearm warriors and one-handed rapier rogues could both be fun.
Modifié par MillKill, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:22 .
#10
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:24
The Elder King
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You used the wrong words, but I strongly support the return of dual-wielding warriors.
#11
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:25
deuce985
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Yes. Bring back dual wielding and Aracane Warriors too. I shouldn't be restricted on my PC. I don't care if they restrict certain builds/weapon types on companions. They have their own personalities.
#12
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:27
The Elder King
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MillKill wrote...
One of the many reasons Origins had terrible combat was that Rogues and Warriors felt the same. classes should remain distinct. Two melee dps classes make both dual-wielding Warriors and dual-wielding Rogues feel less special.
In your opinion. DW warrior was my favourite way of playing Origins.
And having DW warrior back doesn't mean that they'll play in the same way as DW rogues. They could make a diffent talent tree, different animations, etc.
Or they could put the DW option in the warrior class, and create two new weapon-related trees for the rogues, you know. In that way DW warriors would feel special:whistle:
Modifié par hhh89, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:30 .
#13
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:27
Boss Fog
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MillKill wrote...
One of the many reasons Origins had terrible combat was that Rogues and Warriors felt the same. classes should remain distinct. Two melee dps classes make both dual-wielding Warriors and dual-wielding Rogues feel less special.
I wouldn't mind new weapon styles for both classes, though. Polearm warriors and one-handed rapier rogues could both be fun.
classes can still remain distinct with similar weapon styles; you simply make the talent trees different.
#14
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:28
deuce985
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MillKill wrote...
One of the many reasons Origins had terrible combat was that Rogues and Warriors felt the same. classes should remain distinct. Two melee dps classes make both dual-wielding Warriors and dual-wielding Rogues feel less special.
I wouldn't mind new weapon styles for both classes, though. Polearm warriors and one-handed rapier rogues could both be fun.
This is also a fair argument. I don't mind restrictions if they flesh each build out more than DAO/DA2.
I see it more of a problem on restricting our PCs and defining the styles we want. Companions having restrictions make perfect sense to me.
Modifié par deuce985, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:30 .
#15
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:29
marshalleck
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Re: bold, there are dual wield options there too. Parrying and riposting with a main gauche and rapier combo, thus increasing the defensive capability of a rogue, or giving them a cloak to ensnare their opponents' weapons and taking them (at least temporarilty) out of the fight; a type of melee-specific crowd control.MillKill wrote...
One of the many reasons Origins had terrible combat was that Rogues and Warriors felt the same. classes should remain distinct. Two melee dps classes make both dual-wielding Warriors and dual-wielding Rogues feel less special.
I wouldn't mind new weapon styles for both classes, though. Polearm warriors and one-handed rapier rogues could both be fun.
It would be awesome to see the duelist spec fully fleshed out as a proper swashbuckler/fencer. And Orlais with its nobles and courtliness is a perfect opportunity.
Modifié par marshalleck, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:33 .
#16
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:33
AppealToReason
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MillKill wrote...
I wouldn't mind new weapon styles for both classes, though. Polearm warriors and one-handed rapier rogues could both be fun.
Damn thats an idea.
#17
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:33
DreamwareStudio
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Dual-wielding and arcane warriors should both return.
Citing an excuse to differentiate classes is a lame and rather asinine excuse. classes should be different based upon their build/talent trees and how they fight, not the weapons they can and cannot use. If a character (whether PC or NPC) has two hands and the strength to lift the weapons they should be able to use them. How effective they are with them should depend upon training/skills and attributes such as the aforementioned strength as well as stamina, dexterity, etc.
Citing an excuse to differentiate classes is a lame and rather asinine excuse. classes should be different based upon their build/talent trees and how they fight, not the weapons they can and cannot use. If a character (whether PC or NPC) has two hands and the strength to lift the weapons they should be able to use them. How effective they are with them should depend upon training/skills and attributes such as the aforementioned strength as well as stamina, dexterity, etc.
Modifié par google_calasade, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:36 .
#18
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:35
ScarMK
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Dual wield warriors returning are a must have.
#19
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:36
MillKill
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marshalleck wrote...
It would be awesome to see the duelist spec fully fleshed out as a proper swashbuckler/fencer. And Orlais with its nobles and courtliness is a perfect opportunity.
I am completely in favor of a rapier-wielding swashbuckler rogue. Here's hoping plumed hats are available as rogue headware.
#20
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:38
marshalleck
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Plumed hats and rapiers are borderline overpowered. Who would play anything else? :happy:
Modifié par marshalleck, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:38 .
#21
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:43
MillKill
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marshalleck wrote...
Plumed hats and rapiers are borderline overpowered. Who would play anything else? :happy:
I'd probably play a halberdier over anything if polearms are included. A swashbuckler with the snarky personality would be a close second.
#22
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:44
berelinde
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Great cheese wheels, yes!
Dual-wielding warriors makes tremendous sense, and warriors in general are in need of a serious, serious overhaul.
Every class should have some build diversity, three types, in fact. You should be able to make a character who excels at crowd control, support, *or* DPS with every class. Roges have it covered. Depending on how you build your archer, you've got the crowd control and the support role down (although the latter requires you to squint a bit so you can see it). Dual-wielding rogues are the best nukes in the game. Mages have always had all three covered with their AoE, their buffs, their debuffs, and their damage-oriented spells. Warriors in DA2 got a choice between being a tank and... well, that's about it. They really need a better DPS build, and dual-wielding would accomplish that nicely.
Dual-wielding warriors makes tremendous sense, and warriors in general are in need of a serious, serious overhaul.
Every class should have some build diversity, three types, in fact. You should be able to make a character who excels at crowd control, support, *or* DPS with every class. Roges have it covered. Depending on how you build your archer, you've got the crowd control and the support role down (although the latter requires you to squint a bit so you can see it). Dual-wielding rogues are the best nukes in the game. Mages have always had all three covered with their AoE, their buffs, their debuffs, and their damage-oriented spells. Warriors in DA2 got a choice between being a tank and... well, that's about it. They really need a better DPS build, and dual-wielding would accomplish that nicely.
#23
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:46
marshalleck
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A polearm specialist could add a new dynamic to tactical combat as well: area denial. Put a halberdier next to your mage to keep those swarms of pesky footsoldiers at bay while the mage blows them up with fire. There's a reason halberds were often the weapon of choice for bodyguards.
Modifié par marshalleck, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:52 .
#24
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:46
Fast Jimmy
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MillKill wrote...
marshalleck wrote...
Plumed hats and rapiers are borderline overpowered. Who would play anything else? :happy:
I'd probably play a halberdier over anything if polearms are included. A swashbuckler with the snarky personality would be a close second.
If the black-and-white outline pictures taken in the background of the Edmonton studio can be believed, there were some charcters with VERY long sticks and large tips which would make you very excited.
#25
Posté 24 octobre 2012 - 12:47
Fast Jimmy
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Fast Jimmy wrote...
MillKill wrote...
marshalleck wrote...
Plumed hats and rapiers are borderline overpowered. Who would play anything else? :happy:
I'd probably play a halberdier over anything if polearms are included. A swashbuckler with the snarky personality would be a close second.
If the black-and-white outline pictures taken in the background of the Edmonton studio can be believed, there were some charcters with VERY long sticks and large tips which would make you very excited.
Wow... I really should take a glance at my posts before hitting Submit.
That is to say... it looked like there were some character models with polearms/halbreds. Not... anything else you may be thinking of.
