What I'd advocate is not a totally blank background, but to have one which focused on the recent past and left stuff like childhood and family alone for the player to fill in as they wished.
So maybe you joined up with a band of mercenaries 6 months ago. Or joined the chantry. Or if you wanted to take a page out of Bethesda's book, got thrown in prison. The why would be up to the player - maybe they'd get prompted to discuss that detail, but they could not answer or the player could decide they lied.
Origins vs. Races: Which is more important?
Débuté par
upsettingshorts
, oct. 24 2012 07:23
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#177
Guest_Mikael_Sebastia_*
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 09:23
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Modifié par Mikael_Sebastia, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:56 .
#178
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 09:26
Sylvius the Mad
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That could work as long as those 6 months are left fairly empty. I'm a bit worried that we could later learn that the band of mercenaries had done something appalling during those 6 months, meaning that the PC either took part or stood idly by while it happened (or something like that).
Imagine NWN assuming not just that the PC was a student at the academy, but that he'd been there for 6 months, during which time the acadeny had been attacked and he'd fought to defend it, showing great courage and heroism. That would seem to preclude a cowardly character, unless they left space for the PC to believe that some other heroic person had been mistaken for him.
Imagine NWN assuming not just that the PC was a student at the academy, but that he'd been there for 6 months, during which time the acadeny had been attacked and he'd fought to defend it, showing great courage and heroism. That would seem to preclude a cowardly character, unless they left space for the PC to believe that some other heroic person had been mistaken for him.
#179
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 10:25
Wozearly
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Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That could work as long as those 6 months are left fairly empty. I'm a bit worried that we could later learn that the band of mercenaries had done something appalling during those 6 months, meaning that the PC either took part or stood idly by while it happened (or something like that).
Imagine NWN assuming not just that the PC was a student at the academy, but that he'd been there for 6 months, during which time the acadeny had been attacked and he'd fought to defend it, showing great courage and heroism. That would seem to preclude a cowardly character, unless they left space for the PC to believe that some other heroic person had been mistaken for him.
That would, however, be broadly in line with how Mass Effect handled its 'origin' stories.
All three had the character doing something 'impressive' in their background, and gave a small bit of flavour about their psychology. These had slight effects on the rate you gained Paragon / Renegade points, each had a unique side quest and one minor effect in a single notable side quest.
You then start at the common meeting point (effectively Ostagar, in DA:O terms) and your unknown past that you didn't get involved in jumps out at you in a small way once or twice as you go through the game.
Its a way of having some form of origin story, but without needing to devote the same amount of time and resource to crafting the excellent and sorely missed origin stories from DA:O. If I were a betting man, that's what I'd be putting my money down on.
#180
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 10:26
Todd23
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I searched and searched and couldn't find a pole for this so.....
http://social.biowar...76/polls/41006/
http://social.biowar...76/polls/41006/
#181
Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 01:57
robertthebard
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This would, largely, be how I would anticipate the Origin type situation to run out, and with whatever options we're offered, we can pick the one that best fits the way we want our character to play out. To Sylvus' point, if a cowardly character was desired, there could be an option that your character wasn't even there when the attack happened, but showed up shortly after it was over, and was Johnny on the Spot when credit was handed out, or, alternatively, the first thing I thought of when you brought it up; I was hiding in a closet the whole time...Wozearly wrote...
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That could work as long as those 6 months are left fairly empty. I'm a bit worried that we could later learn that the band of mercenaries had done something appalling during those 6 months, meaning that the PC either took part or stood idly by while it happened (or something like that).
Imagine NWN assuming not just that the PC was a student at the academy, but that he'd been there for 6 months, during which time the acadeny had been attacked and he'd fought to defend it, showing great courage and heroism. That would seem to preclude a cowardly character, unless they left space for the PC to believe that some other heroic person had been mistaken for him.
That would, however, be broadly in line with how Mass Effect handled its 'origin' stories.
All three had the character doing something 'impressive' in their background, and gave a small bit of flavour about their psychology. These had slight effects on the rate you gained Paragon / Renegade points, each had a unique side quest and one minor effect in a single notable side quest.
You then start at the common meeting point (effectively Ostagar, in DA:O terms) and your unknown past that you didn't get involved in jumps out at you in a small way once or twice as you go through the game.
Its a way of having some form of origin story, but without needing to devote the same amount of time and resource to crafting the excellent and sorely missed origin stories from DA:O. If I were a betting man, that's what I'd be putting my money down on.
#182
Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 02:22
Versus Omnibus
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In my honest opinion, I rather have origins since that leaves more room for other content.
#183
Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 02:24
wsandista
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Races. Origins can limit the variety of options for a PC, while races enhance them. DAO's origins worked well for me because they left quite a bit blank.
#184
Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 02:33
Heimdall
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Races by themselves don't work. The situations between different races are too potentially different for races alone to be as as satisfying as Origins, even only human Origins.
#185
Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 03:50
Orian Tabris
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It would have to be origins for me, as I can (very reluctantly) deal with only playing one race. Context matters more to me than race, and as long as I don't play a dwarf (or at least, not a male dwarf), I can make a character who I am (visually) very happy with - if not ecstatic.
Origins can help define your character's personality, as does race, but it's much more limited. An origin could define the character's views and their the place in the world, but race will (for the most part) only affect how other's view them. Since this is an RPG, and I will be playing my character not someone else's, I'd like it to be about how he or she reacts to the world, not how others react to them. So I think origin is more important.
Origins can help define your character's personality, as does race, but it's much more limited. An origin could define the character's views and their the place in the world, but race will (for the most part) only affect how other's view them. Since this is an RPG, and I will be playing my character not someone else's, I'd like it to be about how he or she reacts to the world, not how others react to them. So I think origin is more important.
#186
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Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 12:51
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Upsettingshorts wrote...
Answering both in this thread just makes me sigh, as it's a pretty arrogant thing to do. "Forget your premise, OP, it's not good enough for me!"
Please put your "we need both" posts in the human protagonist in DA3 thread.
Henceforth all "both" votes will be collected under a Wall of Shame in the next tally
Arrogant? Not necessarily. I don't think they're saying it to spite you.
Not all of them, anyway.
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
My first response to this was "Why bother?" I was thinking of in-game conversations, wherein there's no requirement that the PC be answering those questions truthfully. But if you're referring to questions during character creation where we establish a background, then yes, simply letting us skip some or all of the questions would serve nicely.
We shouldn't have to lie, though. If we were given a blank slate (isn't this just no origin?), we should have the option to ignore or redirect or simply refuse to answer a question about our past.
#187
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 12:55
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Wulfram wrote...
What I'd advocate is not a totally blank background, but to have one which focused on the recent past and left stuff like childhood and family alone for the player to fill in as they wished.
So maybe you joined up with a band of mercenaries 6 months ago. Or joined the chantry. Or if you wanted to take a page out of Bethesda's book, got thrown in prison. The why would be up to the player - maybe they'd get prompted to discuss that detail, but they could not answer or the player could decide they lied.
This...feels restictive, as far as I'm concerned, unless we're talking about situations like DA:O (there was a big bad and mostly everyone has reason to stop them) or DA ][ (we were escaping Ferelden and needed refuge, to the point we would work for such a person).
If the game just starts with us randomly in a group of mercenaries, I wouldn't like that. Wait a minute--are you suggesting those three (mercenaries, chantry, prison) would ALL be options? In that case it's a little better, but I still wish there were less extreme options.
#188
Posté 26 octobre 2012 - 01:14
Eludajae
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We will see, remember they are going with a new engine and the like. We have no idea what will be the result of this, will they keep the game progressing forward like they have been or take a step back to origins? Who knows, I liked both games, not having a choice of race seemed only a slight annoyance. Who knows maybe this new engine will allow them to deliver the game we want with a little extra choice on race. That aside we will not be seeing Hawke again so who knows who this new protagonist will be.
#189
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:33
upsettingshorts
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That's why this is asking about a hypothetical game, not Dragon Age 3. DA3 will have neither origins nor racial choice.
#190
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:40
Kileyan
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I would prefer the option to pick a race. Bioware doesn't have to tailor every single dialog to every race, given a sufficient range of choices, I can rp in my head that I am making choices from a dwarve or elven mindset. I don't really need Bioware to hold my hand and give me the "dwarf" or the "elf" dialog, just give me some variety in dialog and I can make due.
That said, I don't think even my concession would matter. It is still a matter of Bioware costs for voice actors. I don't really want to play a dwarf who talks like Hawke. No matter how simple and generic the dialog options were made, Bioware would still need a dozen different voice actors for each line to make it work:(
That said, I don't think even my concession would matter. It is still a matter of Bioware costs for voice actors. I don't really want to play a dwarf who talks like Hawke. No matter how simple and generic the dialog options were made, Bioware would still need a dozen different voice actors for each line to make it work:(
#191
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:51
daffl5
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Emzamination wrote...
Origins -- no question.
this ^^^^^
#192
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 07:06
JellyBean28
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If I had to choose, it would be origins. Easily.
#193
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 06:41
upsettingshorts
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Kileyan wrote...
That said, I don't think even my concession would matter. It is still a matter of Bioware costs for voice actors. I don't really want to play a dwarf who talks like Hawke. No matter how simple and generic the dialog options were made, Bioware would still need a dozen different voice actors for each line to make it work:(
That is a good idea for a follow-up thread actually. Something like, "Would you mind if in a future hypothetical Dragon Age game, racial options for protagonists shared voice actors? If it meant that was the cost of racial options."
But that's a discussion for said future thread.
Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 octobre 2012 - 06:41 .
#194
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 07:58
Rawgrim
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Both. since the first game set the standard by including both. Any DA game not having these two is therefore a step back when it comes to choices and replayability.
#195
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 08:28
upsettingshorts
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Rawgrim wrote...
Both. since the first game set the standard by including both. Any DA game not having these two is therefore a step back when it comes to choices and replayability.
Answering "both" is a step back when it comes to this thread.
#196
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:07
steelfire_dragon
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I'd rather play as an elf or dwarf than have the origins...........
#197
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:20
WhiteThunder
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Origins are more important than races, but races are more important than a voiced protagonist or multiplayer.
#198
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:46
Rawgrim
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WhiteThunder wrote...
Origins are more important than races, but races are more important than a voiced protagonist or multiplayer.
Spot on.
#199
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:50
LinksOcarina
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WhiteThunder wrote...
Origins are more important than races, but races are more important than a voiced protagonist or multiplayer.
An a voiced protagonist ismore important to a narrative.
See, we can do this all day as to what is more important or not, really. Doesn't mean any of it is true, it just means were exercising pure hyperbole to tell an opinion.
Modifié par LinksOcarina, 27 octobre 2012 - 10:51 .
#200
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:57
WhiteThunder
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LinksOcarina wrote...
WhiteThunder wrote...
Origins are more important than races, but races are more important than a voiced protagonist or multiplayer.
An a voiced protagonist ismore important to a narrative.
See, we can do this all day as to what is more important or not, really. Doesn't mean any of it is true, it just means were exercising pure hyperbole to tell an opinion.
How is a voiced protagonist important to the narrative? Can books not tell a compelling narrative? Is Game of Thrones better than A Song of Ice and Fire? Is Disney's "The Sword in the Stone" better than the first book of The Once and Future King? Is Baldur's Gate 2 a worse narrative than Assassin's Creed?
