342 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaos Lord Malek]

So people want realistic combat, graphics, armor and clothing. But don't want realistic characters and story.

If Bioware will listen to this crap you post here, the story of this game will never get even close to the games like Planescape Torment or Witcher.

[vallore]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I can see why both Meredith and Leandra's stories were included in her list. Meredith doesn't seem to make a choice in her circumstances - what happens to her seems to be an amplification of her own fear and distrust, versus some stance that she decides to take, but that we see with Orsino. He draws the line in the sand and taps into darker forces, whereas circumstantial evidence for Meredith (templars reporting that
she was heard talking to herself in her office) points to her being led/carried off by forces outside of her control.

And yes, for Leandra, we see the darker side of magic and one particular mage, but with women as the victims, women as the individuals that were manipulated and essentially destroyed. It just falls in line with a long history of women-in-media (stories, comics, movies, etc) as being victim versus victor. 

So what's the alternative?

Make Orsino a female and Meredith a male just to avoid the issue? Or have them both male or both female characters so nobody can claim that it's sexist?

Make it so that your mother is dead, not your father so the father gets kidnapped? So nobody can claim it's a stereotype?

To not have any victims, or weak characters, or characters who have things out of their control?

Unless they are specifically choosing a gender for a specific reason or point, people are just looking for criticisms, where there is no basis for it.

It's not so much that there needs to always be a flipside alternative so much as there should be an awareness of this sort of gender depiction. Meredith and Orsino could have been written in different ways - add some dialogue to show Meredith as having more of a say in what happened to her, that she took direction action. 

I don't really want to go down the path of how this or that could have/should have been done differently, because there are countless threads for that. But what I personally would like to see is that awareness - that small shifts can be added to any character and story, that how victims and victors are depicted can be changed, that there is fairness in how characters are written - so that we don't so much see the same stories applied to women or to men, be they good or bad.

Characters can be weak or strong, or any medley and mix in between, but when there is a leaning in one direction over the other, and it falls in line with how one gender has been depicted over decades, it gets troubling...and old.

The point I got from this thread is not to "look for criticisms" without basis. She provided the basis, she pointed out areas where the 'standard' depictions are evident. The point here was to put down what the hope for the future stories/games might be - that there can be a better balance achieved.

I’m pretty sure that if Orsino was portrayed as a victim of circumstances, without control over what happened to him, and Meridith in fully in control of hers, some people would be protesting that the female was being unfairly portrayed as the archetype villainess, while the male was getting away as being himself a victim.

Meridith and Orsino are primarily people; their gender is most definitely not portrayed as having any impact in their personality or choices.

[shimoyake]

As a woman, following this thread is quite interesting to me. o.O Some of these points never occurred to me before. That said, I think I'll let my brain sit before I comment further than to say that I'm surprised I never took the time to consider sexism in DA before. Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to have all the sexist events in my life to be really blatant, aka people refusing to let me serve them in a 'male' oriented workplace (video game store) just because I'm a woman. Or asking me a question and then going to get the exact same answer from a male coworker before believing it.

On a slightly related note, I thought that the reason few women were made grey wardens was related to the consequences of the taint, specifically, infertility? The older wardens would know about that, after all. After the broodmother discovery, I have to wonder if there wouldn't be some concern that female wardens hearing the Call to go into the Deep Roads and die might be corrupted enough to become broodmothers themselves. But that's just rampant speculation on my part after my latest DA:O run this week.

All in all, I've always been fine with how Bioware portrays its females (mostly its strong female PCs), but I do have to consider the fact that I'm just comfortable with the cliche stereotypes in literary (or video game) form. :/ Which is something to ponder in itself.

[GloriousDame]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


Point being... yes, there is probably an uneven portrayal of EVERY group fitting into certain stereotypes. Its part of the narrative consciousness, after 10,000 years of telling stories, certain concepts, roles and paradigms will be in place. And, despite how hard a writer may want to avoid such stereotypes, it would ultimately be futile, as otherwise, the characters would be so foreign as to be unable to connect to them.

Because as others said, while there are a disproportionate number of "victim" females, there is also a LARGE number of strong female characters, characters which don't take **** from anyone, and which could serve as a model for other media to take some lessons from.

But don't you think the weight of issues such as rape (and other things that tend to only happen to female characters) surpasses those you mentioned? I mean, just because other groups are unfairly portrayed, doesn't make it balanced. And yes, there are many strong female characters, all of which I love and appreciate, but again their presence doesn't "balance" this particular issue.

That being said, I don't think there's any way to counter this other than having it be absent and if that's the case, I'd rather see it still implemented, if only because at the end of the day, your character will be the one to kick ass while all the rotten scum will still have nothing to show.

Modifié par ArinTheirinCousland, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:08 .

[Terrorize69]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

Merril is not socially confident, but she will not let you sway her on her decision to remake the Eluvian. She has a strong sense of self belief.
Isabela is a captain, a leader, very sexually active, and very confident.
Aveline is headstrong, morally incorruptable, willing to take the hard road even if it costs her.
Your mother is strong and independent while Gamlen is weak and makes excuses

Don't forget Andraste

Oh and should add Sister/Mother Petrice to this also :innocent:

[EricHVela]

The only way to avoid the OP's proposed situation is to make gender be totally immaterial to everything. Then, you'll get those that want their PC's gender to have some kind of impact. That's a hard place for them to be.

They cannot appeal to everyone. We'll see which way they decide to go. Hopefully, they'll put more effort into the story that they want to give to us rather than our story we want them to make for us.

If I wanted to read a story that conforms to every ideal that I think I would want, I'd write it. An interactive story still comes from other authors. Feel free to write your own, though, if that's what you really want.

[Dirgegun]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

Merril is not socially confident, but she will not let you sway her on her decision to remake the Eluvian. She has a strong sense of self belief.
Isabela is a captain, a leader, very sexually active, and very confident.
Aveline is headstrong, morally incorruptable, willing to take the hard road even if it costs her.
Your mother is strong and independent while Gamlen is weak and makes excuses

Don't forget Andraste

Oh and should add Sister/Mother Petrice to this also :innocent:

And the Divine? 

[Fast Jimmy]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


Point being... yes, there is probably an uneven portrayal of EVERY group fitting into certain stereotypes. Its part of the narrative consciousness, after 10,000 years of telling stories, certain concepts, roles and paradigms will be in place. And, despite how hard a writer may want to avoid such stereotypes, it would ultimately be futile, as otherwise, the characters would be so foreign as to be unable to connect to them.

Because as others said, while there are a disproportionate number of "victim" females, there is also a LARGE number of strong female characters, characters which don't take **** from anyone, and which could serve as a model for other media to take some lessons from.

But don't you think the weight of issues such as rape (and other things that tend to only happen to female characters) surpasses those you mentioned? I mean, just because other groups are unfairly portrayed, doesn't make it balanced. And yes, there are many strong female characters, all of which I love and appreciate, but again their presence doesn't "balance" this particular issue.

That being said, I don't think there's any way to counter this other than having it be absent and if that's the case, I'd rather see it still implemented, if only because at the end of the day, your character will be the one to kick ass while all the rotten scum will still have nothing to show.

I have to agree. If the only alternative to not talking about women getting raped, women being brutalized, women being abducted/kidnapped is that NO ONE is raped, brutalized or taken against their will, then I feel that the story will only suffer because of it.

Although I do agree that the women in games do seem to receive the most EXTREME treatment more often than not. The only alternative to that would be to give the same treatement to men (which wouldn't make sense in some cases, like the Broodmother) or to remove the content altogether. I'm not sure what a good solution would be that doesn't involve creepy subjects like male prison rape or hentai-type creatures that turn their sights on men... which is UBER creepy... 

Again, my point being - I see the problem, but I don't think there is a solution, even if the writers "keep it in mind" when they craft material.

[Volus Warlord]

If all that stuff is left out.. how much "edgy" material do you have left to work with?

/hides under a rock

[Terrorize69]

Dirgegun wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

Merril is not socially confident, but she will not let you sway her on her decision to remake the Eluvian. She has a strong sense of self belief.
Isabela is a captain, a leader, very sexually active, and very confident.
Aveline is headstrong, morally incorruptable, willing to take the hard road even if it costs her.
Your mother is strong and independent while Gamlen is weak and makes excuses

Don't forget Andraste

Oh and should add Sister/Mother Petrice to this also :innocent:

And the Divine? 

Indeed, the White Divine also.

Empress Celene too.

[Withidread]

Cammen was a whiny little so-and-so that I wanted to run through. Granted. But this isn't supposed to be high fantasy. In many cases, the city elf origin in particular, the male version isn't nearly as motivating as the female version. What's more motivating, being taken hostage and the implied rape of the female version or rushing to the rescue of your cousin and a random woman you've just met but are supposed to marry?

In the male version of the origin, the PC almost feels removed from the events taking place. He's really only reacting to something that's happened to someone else. It's not nearly as compelling as the female version where the PC is in thick of it, the center of events.

While I certainly don't want writers to limit themselves to any one type of plot hook, given the choice between sexism and dry, stale, boring storylines that make up every fairytale we've ever heard, I'll take the sexism thanks.

[Mims]

As a woman, I both agree and disagree. On one hand, this is a game, you shouldn't have to sit through sexist comments on your down time. But on the other hand, some characters are just sexist. Some themes do explore gender issues or gender fears.

But I totally, totally agree there needs to be more equality. Sexist remarks and rape should not be treated as shock value. It shouldn't be exploitative.

I personally found the broodmother and city elf starting area to be rather chilling. I didn't feel it was being overly exploitative. The broodmother plays on both male and female fears, and provides a somewhat reasonable explanation as to why there are fewer women in the grey wardens.

To me, the city elves were all being equally oppressed. Men were forced to endure the degradation of the nobles, and were largely just losing hope. The PC elf and his/her cousins were a rarity in the town.

Now. That said. I DO consider offhanded remarks of rape to be exploitative. In the same starting area, I thought it was a bit meh to have the girl elf basically go, "woe is me I am going to be raped if someone doesn't give me some money". I also didn't feel the backstory of the elf in one of the books needed the sex slave aspect to it. When something feels tacked on, its hard to shake.

Basically, I feel this: if rape is to be addressed, it needs to be given a reason why. It shouldn't just be treated as something that makes the story "more real." Or plays on men/women's desire to protect women.

[berelinde]

Sejborg wrote...

A female PC can flirt with Teagan, Cullen, Sebastian. Not all of the female flirting options are fugly. You seem to be forgetting those options.

A female can flirt with them (and be rejected). These attractive men do *not* flirt with the PC. That is a very important difference. Perhaps the rejection part should not be parenthetical. There is no male equivalent of Bella or Gheyna, where the PC's attention toward an attractive NPC is rewarded with returned interest. Even Dairren (the only NPC conquest in both games available to female PCs) in the human noble origin is a lot derpier than his female counterpart.

Nor should Sebastian really be included in that list. He is a companion at that point and is intended as a potential LI. 

[Dirgegun]

berelinde wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

A female PC can flirt with Teagan, Cullen, Sebastian. Not all of the female flirting options are fugly. You seem to be forgetting those options.

A female can flirt with them (and be rejected). These attractive men do *not* flirt with the PC. That is a very important difference. Perhaps the rejection part should not be parenthetical. There is no male equivalent of Bella or Gheyna, where the PC's attention toward an attractive NPC is rewarded with returned interest. Even Dairren (the only NPC conquest in both games available to female PCs) in the human noble origin is a lot derpier than his female counterpart.

Nor should Sebastian really be included in that list. He is a companion at that point and is intended as a potential LI. 

Cullen might not outwardly flirt, but his stuttering and "You're not distracting -- I mean you are -- I mean you're not." is pretty indicative of an attraction. Then there's that one mage who is all "I've heard Cullen's in love with you!"

Teagan can also flirt with the Warden without the Warden flirting, depending on the tone you use when asking whether or not he has a family. My Warden asked that, and I didn't see it as flirting but instead asking if he had people he was personally protecting other than the villagers.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just sayin'...
 
Personally I wish more males would flirt with my male Warden/Hake. My flirtatious Donovan Hawke got a kick out of it whenever there was the option.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Dirgegun wrote...

Dragon Age has plenty of wonderful and strong female characters, and it has plenty of wonderful and strong male characters.  It is not sexist to throw in a couple of characters that are weak. It isn't, and in fact I want to see it. I want a well developed world with characters who come from different standings and different positions of power, be that personal, mental, physical or social power.    

You and several others seem to be missing Maria's point. She never said Dragon Age didn't have strong female characters, or strong male characters.

Go back and look at her list of unique content for male characters compared to female characters. Do you see nothing  unfair in how one gender is treated compared to the other in terms of that unique content?

Yes, both genders get to be Big Damn Heroes and win the game no matter what. But why, in situations when the game bothers to check your character's gender, do females tend to have a much more unappealing array of unique content than males? Why is it the norm, in a fantasy game of all things, to have female characters belittled and threatened due to their gender, while male characters get kisses from hot barmaids or a heroic role in a rescue scene?

Why is there nothing wrong with this picture?

[fchopin]

I don’t understand what Maria is complaining about, i see nothing wrong with the Dragon Age stories, IMO they should be grittier and more adventures for both genders.

Modifié par fchopin, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:48 .

[Terrorize69]

Dirgegun wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

A female PC can flirt with Teagan, Cullen, Sebastian. Not all of the female flirting options are fugly. You seem to be forgetting those options.

A female can flirt with them (and be rejected). These attractive men do *not* flirt with the PC. That is a very important difference. Perhaps the rejection part should not be parenthetical. There is no male equivalent of Bella or Gheyna, where the PC's attention toward an attractive NPC is rewarded with returned interest. Even Dairren (the only NPC conquest in both games available to female PCs) in the human noble origin is a lot derpier than his female counterpart.

Nor should Sebastian really be included in that list. He is a companion at that point and is intended as a potential LI. 

Cullen might not outwardly flirt, but his stuttering and "You're not distracting -- I mean you are -- I mean you're not." is pretty indicative of an attraction. Then there's that one mage who is all "I've heard Cullen's in love with you!"

Teagan can also flirt with the Warden without the Warden flirting, depending on the tone you use when asking whether or not he has a family. My Warden asked that, and I didn't see it as flirting but instead asking if he had people he was personally protecting other than the villagers.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just sayin'...
 
Personally I wish more males would flirt with my male Warden/Hake. My flirtatious Donovan Hawke got a kick out of it whenever there was the option.

This is offtopic but, really?  whens he say that? lol

[GloriousDame]

berelinde wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

A female PC can flirt with Teagan, Cullen, Sebastian. Not all of the female flirting options are fugly. You seem to be forgetting those options.

A female can flirt with them (and be rejected). These attractive men do *not* flirt with the PC. That is a very important difference. Perhaps the rejection part should not be parenthetical. There is no male equivalent of Bella or Gheyna, where the PC's attention toward an attractive NPC is rewarded with returned interest. Even Dairren (the only NPC conquest in both games available to female PCs) in the human noble origin is a lot derpier than his female counterpart.

Nor should Sebastian really be included in that list. He is a companion at that point and is intended as a potential LI. 

Just in case anyone is interested:

IanPolaris wrote...


Since you seem interested as an
aside, here is (AFAIK anyway) the comprensive list of who you can sleep
with, their gender, and who (male or female) can seduce them...oh and
when you can:

Iona (female), available to all  (excludes Darian): Human Noble Origin
Darrian (male), avaiable to all (excludes Iona): Human Noble Origin
Mardy (female), male only (Teli also available): Dwarf Noble Origin
Teli (female), male only (Mardy also available): Dwarf Noble Origin
[You can sleep with both Mardy and Teli in the same night but not at once]
Morrigan (female), male only [any but not if in "Love"]
Lelianna (female), available to all [only if in "Love and quest completed]
Zevram (male), available to all
Alistair (male), female only [only after personal quest completed]
Desire Demon (?? looks female), available to all, Fade Ritual/Redcliff Castle [Mage Only]
Isabella (female), available to all, Pearl (Denerim) [requires persuade check]
Isabella won't sleep with you if romantic partner jealous (morrigan always, unhardened Alistair or Lelianna)
Pearl "Workers" (6 male and 6 female) available to both for the right price (Denerim)
Gheyna (female), male only, Dalish Camp [requires persuade check, always causes Cammen's quest to fail]
Cammen
(male), female only, Dalish Camp [requires persuade check, can still
complete Cammen's quest if persuade Gheyna and NOT mention you sleeping
with Cammen]

----
Though our PCs may have fewer choices, it does seem like the couple of times we are 'flirted' with are more... meaningful, I guess.
---
Fast Jimmy, Agreed.

[Dirgegun]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

Dragon Age has plenty of wonderful and strong female characters, and it has plenty of wonderful and strong male characters.  It is not sexist to throw in a couple of characters that are weak. It isn't, and in fact I want to see it. I want a well developed world with characters who come from different standings and different positions of power, be that personal, mental, physical or social power.    

You and several others seem to be missing Maria's point. She never said Dragon Age didn't have strong female characters, or strong male characters.

Go back and look at her list of unique content for male characters compared to female characters. Do you see nothing  unfair in how one gender is treated compared to the other in terms of that unique content?

Yes, both genders get to be Big Damn Heroes and win the game no matter what. But why, in situations when the game bothers to check your character's gender, do females tend to have a much more unappealing array of unique content than males? Why is it the norm, in a fantasy game of all things, to have female characters belittled and threatened due to their gender, while male characters get kisses from hot barmaids or a heroic role in a rescue scene?

Why is there nothing wrong with this picture?

That was one point I made in reply to a comment that I agreed with. I posted before that with something more relevent to the OP, too, but whatever let's run with your point...

I didn't find any of the female 'conquests' anymore attractive than the males. That's the problem with personal opinion and our own perception of beauty, though. I personaly think everyone looks rather normal. That might be influenced by my own sexuality or whatever, but there you go.

As for Bella... I feel the men stared, not because the player was supposed to see her as attractive, but because of her personality and character. The men in the tavern KNOW her, while the Warden has just met her. I took that moment as meaning that they didn't think they would ever see her, as they know her, give someone a heroes kiss just because he asked.

So... more gobsmacked 'what is this' than I AM SO JEALOUS THAT SHE DOES NOT KISS ME.

[Dirgegun]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

A female PC can flirt with Teagan, Cullen, Sebastian. Not all of the female flirting options are fugly. You seem to be forgetting those options.

A female can flirt with them (and be rejected). These attractive men do *not* flirt with the PC. That is a very important difference. Perhaps the rejection part should not be parenthetical. There is no male equivalent of Bella or Gheyna, where the PC's attention toward an attractive NPC is rewarded with returned interest. Even Dairren (the only NPC conquest in both games available to female PCs) in the human noble origin is a lot derpier than his female counterpart.

Nor should Sebastian really be included in that list. He is a companion at that point and is intended as a potential LI. 

Cullen might not outwardly flirt, but his stuttering and "You're not distracting -- I mean you are -- I mean you're not." is pretty indicative of an attraction. Then there's that one mage who is all "I've heard Cullen's in love with you!"

Teagan can also flirt with the Warden without the Warden flirting, depending on the tone you use when asking whether or not he has a family. My Warden asked that, and I didn't see it as flirting but instead asking if he had people he was personally protecting other than the villagers.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just sayin'...
 
Personally I wish more males would flirt with my male Warden/Hake. My flirtatious Donovan Hawke got a kick out of it whenever there was the option.

This is offtopic but, really?  whens he say that? lol

If you don't flirt and say "I shouldn't distract you from your duties". He also says that "You can talk to me anytime, if you like." 

[Terrorize69]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

Dragon Age has plenty of wonderful and strong female characters, and it has plenty of wonderful and strong male characters.  It is not sexist to throw in a couple of characters that are weak. It isn't, and in fact I want to see it. I want a well developed world with characters who come from different standings and different positions of power, be that personal, mental, physical or social power.    

You and several others seem to be missing Maria's point. She never said Dragon Age didn't have strong female characters, or strong male characters.

Go back and look at her list of unique content for male characters compared to female characters. Do you see nothing  unfair in how one gender is treated compared to the other in terms of that unique content?

Yes, both genders get to be Big Damn Heroes and win the game no matter what. But why, in situations when the game bothers to check your character's gender, do females tend to have a much more unappealing array of unique content than males? Why is it the norm, in a fantasy game of all things, to have female characters belittled and threatened due to their gender, while male characters get kisses from hot barmaids or a heroic role in a rescue scene?

Why is there nothing wrong with this picture?

Anyone can pick out only the negatives points and put them across to prove a point or belief.

I can do that too, all males are potrayed as rapists or power hungry pigs. They are shown that they will enslave anyone they can and abuse anything that disagrees with. Etc etc..

[berelinde]

Dirgegun wrote...

Personally I wish more males would flirt with my male Warden/Hake. My flirtatious Donovan Hawke got a kick out of it whenever there was the option.

Male/male flirting isn't really the point of this thread, but whatever flirting your Donovan received is still more than his female counterparts got. The only people who showed an interest in her were lecherous mercenaries or idiotic virgins. In all cases, it was treated as a joke, not as a statement about her desirability. Would peppering the game with fawning Adonises be better? Of course not. But it would be more fair to include more parity about the encounters. It would not kill the male protagonist to have to fend off unwelcome attention. Or, failing that, make the attention the female receives less degrading.

[Milan92]

I understand the OP's problem, but I can tell you that this thread will not end well. No offence OP.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Dirgegun wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

You and several others seem to be missing Maria's point. She never said Dragon Age didn't have strong female characters, or strong male characters.

Go back and look at her list of unique content for male characters compared to female characters. Do you see nothing  unfair in how one gender is treated compared to the other in terms of that unique content?

Yes, both genders get to be Big Damn Heroes and win the game no matter what. But why, in situations when the game bothers to check your character's gender, do females tend to have a much more unappealing array of unique content than males? Why is it the norm, in a fantasy game of all things, to have female characters belittled and threatened due to their gender, while male characters get kisses from hot barmaids or a heroic role in a rescue scene?

Why is there nothing wrong with this picture?

That was one point I made in reply to a comment that I agreed with. I posted before that with something more relevent to the OP, too, but whatever let's run with your point...

If I've taken you out of context then I apologise. Your post was in response to several others that had a strong undercurrent of 'It doesn't matter if bad stuff happens to characters because there's plenty of cool stuff to counterbalance it.' The cool stuff was never in dispute. The problem is said cool stuff is weighed much more heavily in favour of male characters.

I didn't find any of the female 'conquests' anymore attractive than the males. That's the problem with personal opinion and our own perception of beauty, though. I personaly think everyone looks rather normal. That might be influenced by my own sexuality or whatever, but there you go.

As for Bella... I feel the men stared, not because the player was supposed to see her as attractive, but because of her personality and character. The men in the tavern KNOW her, while the Warden has just met her. I took that moment as meaning that they didn't think they would ever see her, as they know her, give someone a heroes kiss just because he asked.

So... more gobsmacked 'what is this' than I AM SO JEALOUS THAT SHE DOES NOT KISS ME.

Sadly it's...rather telling that of all the points you could have focussed on for your rebuttal, it was kissing and rating the attractiveness of NPCs that you flew with.

I guess when I asked "Why is there nothing wrong with this picture?" the answer was "Because people are so used to it they don't even see it anymore." :/

Edit: reduced quote pyramid

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 24 octobre 2012 - 01:00 .

[esper]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


Point being... yes, there is probably an uneven portrayal of EVERY group fitting into certain stereotypes. Its part of the narrative consciousness, after 10,000 years of telling stories, certain concepts, roles and paradigms will be in place. And, despite how hard a writer may want to avoid such stereotypes, it would ultimately be futile, as otherwise, the characters would be so foreign as to be unable to connect to them.

Because as others said, while there are a disproportionate number of "victim" females, there is also a LARGE number of strong female characters, characters which don't take **** from anyone, and which could serve as a model for other media to take some lessons from.

But don't you think the weight of issues such as rape (and other things that tend to only happen to female characters) surpasses those you mentioned? I mean, just because other groups are unfairly portrayed, doesn't make it balanced. And yes, there are many strong female characters, all of which I love and appreciate, but again their presence doesn't "balance" this particular issue.

That being said, I don't think there's any way to counter this other than having it be absent and if that's the case, I'd rather see it still implemented, if only because at the end of the day, your character will be the one to kick ass while all the rotten scum will still have nothing to show.

I have to agree. If the only alternative to not talking about women getting raped, women being brutalized, women being abducted/kidnapped is that NO ONE is raped, brutalized or taken against their will, then I feel that the story will only suffer because of it.

Although I do agree that the women in games do seem to receive the most EXTREME treatment more often than not. The only alternative to that would be to give the same treatement to men (which wouldn't make sense in some cases, like the Broodmother) or to remove the content altogether. I'm not sure what a good solution would be that doesn't involve creepy subjects like male prison rape or hentai-type creatures that turn their sights on men... which is UBER creepy... 

Again, my point being - I see the problem, but I don't think there is a solution, even if the writers "keep it in mind" when they craft material.

I am sorry, but why is this more creepy than a threath to rape a woman? I for my part would like to see this in some form. Male rape is still rape and if women are so threathen with this to bring horror/grim into the game so should men be.

Just as I would like to see a pathectic woman come on to male protagonist some time.