342 réponses à ce sujet

[henkez3]

RinjiRenee wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

What?! Are you insane? The vast, vast majority of violence in western society is male on male. Senseless male on male violence is becoming alarmingly more common. One of the reasons so many non-criminal male teenagers carry knives if because of the fact that they are afraid that other male teenagers are carrying knives. It's a horrible situation and not one limited to Britain.

Haha, wow.  WOW.  

Pal, we're not talking about violence in general here.  We are talking about women being victims of domestic violence.  There is a difference.

How is women walking down a street "domestic"? Did you not read what he/she wrote?

[Vandicus]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

May I ask then, how do you feel about media portrayals of men where they're expected to be stalwart, brave, self-sacrificing, and honorable(while men lacking honor or who are cowardly are typically villified)? Is this an unfair burden, or does this create a positive objective for men to strive for? If you think the latter, would you prefer the culture/media to do a similar thing with women, creating "paragons" if you will, that exemplify strong positive traits and villify cowardness or weakness?

Not the same.  Men being portrayed as particularly handsome or brave or self-sacrificing does their gender a credit.  Women being portrayed as sex objects for men to use does their gender a disservice.

I did not say they were the same. My questions are actually based on a premise that they are inherently not the same. There is an abundance of "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" male characters if you will(and comparatively few female ones). Though this could give a positive example to strive for, it does have a tendency to villify cowardice and any form of weakness. "True" men aren't allowed to be weak. If they are weak(in some temporary fashion usually), their friends snap them out of it. Do you feel this is a burden or a positive to strive for? If you feel that its a positive to strive for, would you also like females to be treated the same way(rather than as they are now), with "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" by culture and media?

[Dubya75]

Fiacre wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...


And you REALLY think the world is going to be a better place for women (and men alike) if we stop portraying the reality of the world we live in, in media such as games? Now THAT would be ignorant! No, not ignorant. Naive!

There is a vast difference between perpetuating stereotypes and troubling behaviour, and challenging them. The latter is good. The latter can include portraying these. It doesn't *have* to, but there#s nothing wrong with doing so, unless it stops challenging.

I'm not necessarily against portraying reality (though I very much understand people not wanting to deal with the same crap they have to deal irl in their fantasy world and indeed, not every game needs to be realistic), but writers need to take care with *how* they portray things. Bioware generally does a good job, but it is not, as nothing ever is, perfect, and I don't see why one shouldn't criticize what mistakes they make.

I may be a real wimp in real life, unable to defend myself and getting bullied all the time.
Now, I can take the approach that because I am being treated like this in real life, I don't want to have to deal with that in the game world. 
I have 2 choices.
Play a different game, or have an opportunity to be the victor.
I think I'd choose the latter.

[Rinji the Bearded]

henkez3 wrote...

How is women walking down a street "domestic"? Did you not read what he/she wrote?

Here, I'll quickly illustrate for you since you are obviously male and don't know any better.

Women are raised in fear of men.  We are told from a very young age that we should not walk alone anywhere, because there are rapists everywhere waiting for us.  It's not a world that a man has to worry about living in.  Heck, we even read about cases where our own loved ones will suddenly turn and beat us because they're having a bad day.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:23 .

[Bfler]

Aolbain wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

So we should give CD Project points for not even trying? I love the setting they use but too bad that EVERY woman Geralt meet is so oversexualised that its not eaven funny anymore.

They adapt the world described in the novels.  They can't change it to DA style in the games, because that's not how women are portrayed in the books of Sapkowski.

If one of the themes you inherit from the settings creator is sexist portrayal of women (not the same as a sexist world) then it is a stupid theme and you hould throw it away.

Why should they throw it away?  CDPR is a Polish studio and Sapkowsky is one of the most famous Polish writers and most people like (love) their games. 
Furthermore society in Poland (I live near the Polish border), and in East European countries, is not the same as in western countries. Many women there still accept a subordinate role.

Modifié par Bfler, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:27 .

[Aolbain]

Sainna wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

Sainna wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Your two game examples are the type of sexist media maria is talking about.The witcher portrays women in grotesque sexual stigmas and planescape torment gives the nameless one the option to degrade and make women subservient via cruelty to get what he desires I.e: Deionarra.

I completely disagree with you, try playing the games before you start to criticize them and if you don’t like them then don’t play them.
 
If you have problems then fix them and stop trying to put the blame on other game companies.

As somenone who has played both witcher games like 3 times each I have to say that I agree with Emzamination.
The witchers view on women and equality issues is imature and childish at best and horrifingly sexist at worst. It got beter in TW2. Beter, not good.

The Witcher never ever attempted to claim that men and women are equal? Women almost never are in fantasy settings like that.

So we should give CD Project points for not even trying? I love the setting they use but too bad that EVERY woman Geralt meet is so oversexualised that its not eaven funny anymore.

No, we should give them points not despretly trying to make a setting/world where everything and everyone is equal. Granted, I can agree that oversexualisation is bad but some people here are making all of this...ugh, they are making me fear that one day we will have a game where
<Npc to charecter> : Ah, you stupid wench I will smack you! But please note I would also smack you if you where a man and your gender has nothing to do with this, thank you.

No, that was not what I meant. Sorry if I have been unclear. What I was trying to get across was that having a sexist world is not bad. The (in my oppinon) best book-series of all time, A Song of Ice and Fire, is a glorius example of sutch a setting. Its only that CD Project seems to think that Grimdark=boobies and ****s everywhere (Im looking at you, random lesbian witch!)!

Modifié par Aolbain, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:23 .

[Lennard Testarossa]

Maria Caliban wrote...

In my mind, there is a difference in how women’s bodies and men’s bodies are treated in the Dragon Age series. It makes me uneasy. Women’s bodies are the default for violation, especially sexual violation. And in both
games now we’ve had long, unavoidable sections where we are given all the grisly details on how they were horrifically killed and altered.

There's also a difference in how women's bodies and men's bodies are treated in reality. Are you seriously complaining about women's bodies being portrayed as the default for sexual violation? This has been the case for the entirety of human history and is deeply rooted in human biology and human sexuality. What you're essentially asking is for the writers to make the game's world unrealistic and inconsistent because realism and consistency hurt your feelings.

Maria Caliban wrote...
What I’d like to see instead:

If there’s male-specific content where attractive women (or men) hit on the PC and the game makes
them feel ‘cool’ or ‘badass’ for having sex. Let there be female-specific content where attractive men (or women) hit on the PC and the game makes them feel ‘cool’ or ‘badass’ for having sex.

This I can agree with.

Maria Caliban wrote...
This is not so much a BioWare problem as it is a Mass Effect problem, but I’ll mention it. I’m not fond of a guy showing he’s a bastard by making snide remarks about the PC being a woman or just being skeevy toward a female PC. Other women might find it cathartic to punch men like that out or insult them, but generally I see it as a reminder that even in fantasy land, one gender is seen as less than another.

Yet again, the world should not be changed to make people feel "empowered". These guys should not be included so the PC can show her strength by punching them, they should not be excluded so you feel better about yourself. They should be included if their presence makes sense.
This is essentially the same as the request for heroic actions to never have bad consequences because bad consequences makes people feel less heroic.

Regarding women, I, for one, simply hope they don't include boobplate in the game.

Emzamination wrote...

Your two game examples are the type of
sexist media maria is talking about.The witcher portrays women in
grotesque sexual stigmas and planescape torment gives the nameless one
the option to degrade and make women subservient via cruelty to get what
he desires I.e: Deionarra.

PS:T is sexist because the nameless one has the option the manipulate and make women subservient? Dear God, please be trolling.

Modifié par Lennard Testarossa, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:26 .

[henkez3]

Dirgegun wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

No offence intended OP, but you seem to have a chip on the shoulder regarding gender-specific references which you are projecting here.
I think it would make for a totally bland and unrealistic gaming environment if the developers were to do as you ask.
Removing the dynamics between male and female participants borders on the ridiculous.

How typical a man wouldn't understand that the stigmas we women have to suffer through in life, we'd prefer not to see in our video game media as well. Maria is fighting for female rights, equality and portrayal mr. insensitive.

I'm sorry but I think it is out of order to expect the gaming industry to bend and adjust itself around individuals' insecurities. If that makes me appear insensitive then so be it.

How can you dismiss women not wanting to be portrayed as ****s or rape victims as we've been for millenia as our insecurities?? How DARE you.

I dare because I am not afraid or offended by men being portrayed in the worst possible way. I don't take it personally. No-one should take something like that so personally, and if you do then you clearly have issues that need to be addressed. By a professional, not a game designer.

To be fair, though, men can generally walk down a street without the worry that the teen douchebags watching them across the way might try and corner them. Women have to live with a very real undercurrent of worry that men aren't normally presented with. It doesn't help that media, at times, only presents women as being objects of a sexual nature. To write that off as insecurity, without having to live with that, is rather ignorant and thoughtless... :/

Saying that, there are ways the media demonises men that shouldn't be brushed aside, either. Fathers, for instance, have trouble showing affection towards their children, particularly girls, without the worry that some people, because of what the media has done, will see them as a predator and child abuser.

What?! Are you insane? The vast, vast majority of violence in western society is male on male. Senseless male on male violence is becoming alarmingly more common. One of the reasons so many non-criminal male teenagers carry knives if because of the fact that they are afraid that other male teenagers are carrying knives. It's a horrible situation and not one limited to Britain. Pub violence, gang/street violence is by far mostly a male on male thing.

No need to call me insane, thank you, but I will apologise if I've offended in some way. I was thinking about sexual violence when I typed that, rather than violence in general, so that did colour my word choice, even if I didn't make it all that clear. I just thought that would be obvious considering what I was replying to, I guess?

But yes, if we're talking general violence, then yes, that is on the up and tends to be between two men more often than it is between women or a man and a woman.

Perhaps I did overreact, sorry. The reason why that might be is beacuse I work at E.R unit at a hospital where I see droves of mostly young men coming in bashed up every weekend.

Modifié par henkez3, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:24 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Vandicus wrote...
I did not say they were the same. My questions are actually based on a premise that they are inherently not the same. There is an abundance of "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" male characters if you will(and comparatively few female ones). Though this could give a positive example to strive for, it does have a tendency to villify cowardice and any form of weakness. "True" men aren't allowed to be weak. If they are weak(in some temporary fashion usually), their friends snap them out of it. Do you feel this is a burden or a positive to strive for? If you feel that its a positive to strive for, would you also like females to be treated the same way(rather than as they are now), with "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" by culture and media?

I don't know really, but I'd sure love for my gender to be portrayed as selfless and heroic for once, and somehow that become the norm.  But apparently I'm asking for too much!

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:26 .

[Mclouvins]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Strange.

I always thought the Dragon Age games were highly female-centric, and in good ways. At the beginning of Dragon Age 2, if I pick a female warrior or rogue, the only man hanging around is Wesley, and he has to be put out of his misery. (The only other man was Carver and he gets crushed to death if you pick warrior/rogue, obviously.) When faced with Darkspawn, our first savior was a woman (Aveline) and when faced with nowhere to run, our second savior was a "woman" (Flemeth).  

I remember when I started out the game that way I thought, "Wow this is cool. There's a powerful warrior, a powerful mage, an exceedingly powerful shapeshifter, PLUS my protag - and they're all women!" (And there's Leandra. haha) 

The Chantry is completely run by women, and legions of people across Thedas worship a woman (Andraste) and it seems like the whole story is, at this point, being carried by Leliana and Cassandra - two very powerful women. 

I guess I don't share your perspective that Dragon Age is sexist toward women. If anything, I'd say that any misdeeds/crimes committed against women in the Dragon Age games are fairly balanced out by all the positives I've listed above (and then some).

This actually goes even further in Asunder where there are no weak female characters, and the closest is Adrian who at most is a little crazy but is still capable. In that book you have the Divine, Leliana, Wynne, Fiona, Evangaline, and Shale I guess if you want to classify it as being a woman, all of whom are strong and capable figures in the universe.

On the other hand you have Rhys, the Lord Seeker, Cole, and the tranquil elf whose name escapes me. Rhys is the protagonist but for most of the story he's rather weak and is being directed by the stronger female characters. Lambert is a brute but he does have a domineering personality, but Cole and the tranquil are both very much submissive characters for different reasons.

With the exception of Lambert the way that events unfold in that novel are very much subject to the female characters despite the protagonist being a man.

[Aolbain]

Bfler wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

So we should give CD Project points for not even trying? I love the setting they use but too bad that EVERY woman Geralt meet is so oversexualised that its not eaven funny anymore.

They adapt the world described in the novels.  They can't change it to DA style in the games, because that's not how women are portrayed in the books of Sapkowski.

If one of the themes you inherit from the settings creator is sexist portrayal of women (not the same as a sexist world) then it is a stupid theme and you hould throw it away.

Why should they throw it away?  CDPR is a Polish studio and Sapkowsky is one of the most famous Polish writers and most people like (love) their games. 
Furthermore society in Poland, and in East European countries, is not the same as in western countries. Many woman there still accept a subordinate role.

Yeah, I know people loves the books and the games (I am one of them). I have also read a bunch of russian author and have not found the same problem there. Maybe its just Poland? Or the Witcher franchise? And even if their culture is diffrent thats no reason for me to not criticizes.

[AlexJK]

RinjiRenee wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

2. False equivalency with rape and murder.  Everyone dies eventually.  Men have absolutely no necessity to rape.

Did you just suggest that portrayal of murder is OK because "everyone dies eventually"?

Not all murder is justified, no.   But sometimes, such in the case of murdering a murderer, it is justified.  But there is ABSOLUTELY NO CASE where rape is justified.

I didn't ask if you thought there was any case where murder was justified. I asked if you were suggesting that the portrayal of murder is acceptable because "everyone dies" (which is what you said), whereas the portrayal of sexual violence is not acceptable because it's unnecessary.

I assure you that murder, of any kind and for any reason including what you might think is "justified", is never necessary.

Sexual violence is not OK, but then neither are many, many of the other things that go in Dragon Age (and many, many other games, books, films, tv series, etc.) For example, why are we not suggesting that the inclusion of Fenris is wrong because slavery is abhorrent and has no place in society? Is it because slavery is not considered to exist any more? (It does.) Is it because the same level of physical violation is not implied?

Modifié par AlexJK, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:30 .

[Vandicus]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Vandicus wrote...
I did not say they were the same. My questions are actually based on a premise that they are inherently not the same. There is an abundance of "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" male characters if you will(and comparatively few female ones). Though this could give a positive example to strive for, it does have a tendency to villify cowardice and any form of weakness. "True" men aren't allowed to be weak. If they are weak(in some temporary fashion usually), their friends snap them out of it. Do you feel this is a burden or a positive to strive for? If you feel that its a positive to strive for, would you also like females to be treated the same way(rather than as they are now), with "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" by culture and media?

I don't know really, but I'd sure love for my gender to be portrayed as selfless and heroic for once, and somehow that become the norm.  But apparently I'm asking for too much!

Hey now, I'm not saying that its wrong to ask for that to become the norm for females as it is currently for males. I'm just talking about the existence of a self-esteem trap that exists in the male cultural/media portrayal, which I expect would likewise carry over if the same system was applied to females.

[Dirgegun]

henkez3 wrote...

Perhaps I did overreact, sorry. The reason why that might be is beacuse I work at E.R unit at a hospital where I see droves of mostly young men coming in bashed up every weekend.

I... I can see how that would be distressing, and I'm not even going to imagine how that might weigh on you as I'm not in a medical field. Working in that profession means you do good work, though, and I'm sure many people are thankful.

[robertthebard]

Dirgegun wrote...

Definitely not, but is there a reason media should encourage it? I'm not saying rape and the like should never be looked at from a story telling point of view, but to simply shrug off how women (and men) are treated in media and then claim anyone bothered by it needs a psychologist? That isn't cool. 

Lol.  I realize you're being serious, but this fits into:  My kid wouldn't have been a serial killer if there weren't so much violence on TV and in video games.  You see, this thread is railing against sexism, but the next step, if successful, will be violence.  The line needs to be established between fantasy and reality.  Otherwise, video games will start to be about how we solve all the problems in the world with cookies, not that I don't like cookies, but do you really thing the Archdemon would have bailed from the blight if we offered up enough Oreos?  Maybe he liked chocolate chip cookies better?

We have places like Walmart that won't sell music if it's not edited for language because parents can't be arsed to monitor what their kids are listening to.  We have the ESRB because people were worried about finishing moves in Mortal Kombat.  Where does censorship stop?  When will people be happy with everything that a company puts out?  When it's all as referenced in my first paragraph, where people never say harsh things to eachother, and it's all Hello KItty?

Video games don't set out to "encourage" this type of behavior.  If you believe they do, the the M rating applies to you.  These are mature themes, it's not that there might be an Alien Side Boob for your child to see, and that's the worst thing they can ever see, which is what attitudes like this lead to, but more of a "I don't want to monitor what my kids see, and so they shouldn't be allowed to include it in any way" position, and this is wrong.  The M rating implies that the people playing the game should be mature enough to understand that incidents presented in the game are not how one should approach life.  Some people get it, others don't, evidently, and instead of calling for the industry to cater to those, perhaps they should find other sources of entertainment.  If a medium isn't entertaining, I don't partake of it.  I despise Rap music, but I don't call for it to be eliminated, I don't listen to it, and the same applies to movies, books or games that don't suit my tastes.

[Giltspur]

I interpreted Maria's post as making a very specific point about gender: that reactive content for male PC's made the male PC feel empowering and that reactive content for female PC's did not make the female PC feel empowered.  A lot of the replies don't seem to address that specific point and instead speak to the portrayal of men and women in Dragon Age in general.  For example, there's mention of brothers being portrayed as traitors and of the crazy killers and terrorists always being male.  And those are negative portrayals of men.  Andraste is female.  So that's a positive portrayal of women.  So go some of the replies.  However, all of that content is seen by both male PC's and female PC's.  I believe Maria is talking specifically about the sort of content written for only one gender of PC to see.  And so (as I interpret her) she is not speaking more generally about men and women as portrayed in the game.

And I think it's an interesting observation.  It seems true.  If people can think of counterexamples (men getting unique reactive content that makes them feel like dopes or that they are in a sexist world or unique reactive content for women that's empowering or shows some of the advantages of being female where the advantage isn't sleeping to get what you want or using your looks to persuade someone), it would be interesting to hear those things because that would speak directly to Maria's point (as I understand it).  As it is, I think she's right.  Now what of it?  I don't think there's anything wrong with BIoware having written things the way they did.  This isn't that kind of topic.  I think a lot of people (myself included) believe that Bioware is pretty progressive in the context of video gaming with regards to how it treats gender and sexuality.  That's not what's at issue here.

What would be cool is if a writer looks at this and goes "Hmm, yeah, consciously or not, we probably do that with regards to reactive content for PC gender.  We should mix things up and make a conscious effort to present to gender-specifc content in a variety of ways since it's cool to try new things."  Or maybe they go "No.  We already do that.  You're just not noticing it."  That's fair too and examples could help show such a counterpoint and would be interesting.

[henkez3]

Dirgegun wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

Perhaps I did overreact, sorry. The reason why that might be is beacuse I work at E.R unit at a hospital where I see droves of mostly young men coming in bashed up every weekend.

I... I can see how that would be distressing, and I'm not even going to imagine how that might weigh on you as I'm not in a medical field. Working in that profession means you do good work, though, and I'm sure many people are thankful.

It's okay. It's just that all kinds of media often forget that men have emotions and feel pain too.

[Emzamination]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Your two game examples are the type of
sexist media maria is talking about.The witcher portrays women in
grotesque sexual stigmas and planescape torment gives the nameless one
the option to degrade and make women subservient via cruelty to get what
he desires I.e: Deionarra.

PS:T is sexist because the nameless one has the option the manipulate and make women subservient? Dear God, please be trolling.

Oh I see, you've never played Planescape torment. Carry on.

[Dirgegun]

robertthebard wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

Definitely not, but is there a reason media should encourage it? I'm not saying rape and the like should never be looked at from a story telling point of view, but to simply shrug off how women (and men) are treated in media and then claim anyone bothered by it needs a psychologist? That isn't cool. 

Lol.  I realize you're being serious, but this fits into:  My kid wouldn't have been a serial killer if there weren't so much violence on TV and in video games.  You see, this thread is railing against sexism, but the next step, if successful, will be violence.  The line needs to be established between fantasy and reality.  Otherwise, video games will start to be about how we solve all the problems in the world with cookies, not that I don't like cookies, but do you really thing the Archdemon would have bailed from the blight if we offered up enough Oreos?  Maybe he liked chocolate chip cookies better?

We have places like Walmart that won't sell music if it's not edited for language because parents can't be arsed to monitor what their kids are listening to.  We have the ESRB because people were worried about finishing moves in Mortal Kombat.  Where does censorship stop?  When will people be happy with everything that a company puts out?  When it's all as referenced in my first paragraph, where people never say harsh things to eachother, and it's all Hello KItty?

Video games don't set out to "encourage" this type of behavior.  If you believe they do, the the M rating applies to you.  These are mature themes, it's not that there might be an Alien Side Boob for your child to see, and that's the worst thing they can ever see, which is what attitudes like this lead to, but more of a "I don't want to monitor what my kids see, and so they shouldn't be allowed to include it in any way" position, and this is wrong.  The M rating implies that the people playing the game should be mature enough to understand that incidents presented in the game are not how one should approach life.  Some people get it, others don't, evidently, and instead of calling for the industry to cater to those, perhaps they should find other sources of entertainment.  If a medium isn't entertaining, I don't partake of it.  I despise Rap music, but I don't call for it to be eliminated, I don't listen to it, and the same applies to movies, books or games that don't suit my tastes.

......I'm not saying media encourages rape, and if you think I do then you haven't read any of my other posts or just took the above out of context. I think certain brands of feminism can be taken too far, and that there are stories where rape isn't just tact on and, instead, can make a very compelling plot. 

Media can encourage a certain mindset, though, or, at least, desensitise people to a certain mindset to the point that we stop questioning it. I was denfending someone who was bothered by certain issues, and who was replied to by someone saying they need a psychologist because they were bothered.

Edit for better word choice.

Modifié par Dirgegun, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:39 .

[Fiacre]

Vandicus wrote...


I did not say they were the same. My questions are actually based on a premise that they are inherently not the same. There is an abundance of "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" male characters if you will(and comparatively few female ones). Though this could give a positive example to strive for, it does have a tendency to villify cowardice and any form of weakness. "True" men aren't allowed to be weak. If they are weak(in some temporary fashion usually), their friends snap them out of it. Do you feel this is a burden or a positive to strive for? If you feel that its a positive to strive for, would you also like females to be treated the same way(rather than as they are now), with "extreme badass(or paragons of virtue and honor)" by culture and media?

The portrayal of gender roles and the vast problems with that is, imo, an entirely different beast from sexist and objectifying portrayals of women. Andpersonally, I want varied portryals of all genders, less rigid gender roles and certainly less villifying of those that aren't perfect or fit neatly into gender roles.

Dubya75 wrote...

I may be a real wimp in real life, unable to defend myself and getting bullied all the time.
Now,
I can take the approach that because I am being treated like this in
real life, I don't want to have to deal with that in the game world. 
I have 2 choices.
Play a different game, or have an opportunity to be the victor.
I think I'd choose the latter.

It's generally my choice as well, but I can't hold it against someone to not want to have to deal with these things in any fashion in their games. I'm not sure if DA is the series for that, but it is a perfectly understandable and acceptable desire, and it doesn't mean that all media must shy away from themes like sexual violence or sexism in general, or anything else people may find upsetting.

Modifié par Fiacre, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:36 .

[Lennard Testarossa]

Emzamination wrote...
Oh I see, you've never played Planescape torment. Carry on.

Of course I've played PS:T.

Modifié par Lennard Testarossa, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:36 .

[Droma]

RinjiRenee wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

How is women walking down a street "domestic"? Did you not read what he/she wrote?

Here, I'll quickly illustrate for you since you are obviously male and don't know any better.

Women are raised in fear of men.  We are told from a very young age that we should not walk alone anywhere, because there are rapists everywhere waiting for us.  It's not a world that a man has to worry about living in.  Heck, we even read about cases where our own loved ones will suddenly turn and beat us because they're having a bad day.

if this is actually how you have been raised, then whoever raised you thatway did a horrible job. kinda reminds me of the lessons from miss choksondik on sex in southpark. And it would make you kind of overly biased which is never a good point for a fair conversation imo. It's like talking about evolution with a pure conservative christian.

and to make another point on the topic. I don't know if woman don't see this but there aren't any nerdy, weak and/or ugly men in games either. nearly in none of them. so if you are somewhat of the above and play a game where everyone is a true hero and or an **** is also kind of unfair.

Modifié par Droma, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:42 .

[Nevara]

While I agree on some points, I don't necessarily hold all as valid.
While women can and are used as "victims" (I hate that word) of violent crimes doesn't necessitate it as being sexist. Being threatened with rape or abuse of any nature works both ways. How can one assume that its mostly women being harassed in such a nature? Because women will most likely call it out. Men, on the other hand, may not because its emasculating and stigmatizing.
This isn't about gender bias. This all falls to gender roles by societal norms.
I'm an author who used rape as a tool in shaping my main character's (who is female) personality. I am also a rape survivor. I see no stigma in using it and it doesn't diminish the egregious act at all. If you were to remove those elements from a story then at most you've cured a symptom and not a cause. At worst you've belittled every person that's ever gone it as if its never happened. These things can and do happen.
Like I said, however, this has nothing to do with gender at all, but bleating for equality and control over what you have not. If you don't want to deal with the violent (and psychologically dark) human psyche then reality isn't one for you. Saying that it shouldn't happen in one form or another isn't going to change the fact that it does and will happen.
Sorry, just my two cents.

[Joy Divison]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Here, I'll quickly illustrate for you since you are obviously male and don't know any better.

Was this necessary?

Modifié par Joy Divison, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:39 .