10 réponses à ce sujet

[mickey111]

Takes away like 80% of the whole strategy of an RPG when every bit of magic for your spell casters has unlimited uses. Basically, for me, DAO got boring fast. I know it might seem deep and tactical to the typical console gamer who has no reat time or turn based strategy gaming to compare origins to, but it's really not. I know it's a bit unrealistic to expect some magic system like the old baldurs gate and other infinity engine games where you had to hand pick each and every spell you wanted to have at your finger tips each and every time, but I believe that having this in some limited capacity would be negotiable which is why I'm bringing it up now. How about mages get access to some extra powerful special magic which can only be used a few times before requiring an hour of cool down before they can be used again? I honestly just found origins to get very boring and repetitive because all I had to do was build my character as a high damage mage (healing magic optional since healing items were plentiful) and recruit anyone like alistair who could draw all of the incoming hostiles attention and survive for as long as neccessary on healing potions... and that' one strategy just won the whole game for me, gg. it was very boring, and that was all because that origins had no real resource managment at all and it's the resource management that much of the strategy element comes from.

[Allan Schumacher]

I've seen this come up a fair bit, but I don't know where people get the idea that turn based combat is not affected by cooldowns....


NOTE:  Potshots at console players or insinuating that people that don't like what you like are not as refined or are in some way lesser than you is not the greatest way of presenting this perspective.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 25 octobre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Eh, it's just that I have played TB games that have cooldowns on abilities, in the sense of "you cannot use this ability for the next two turns" and stuff like that.


Having said that, one consequence of having really fast regen is that fights must be outright lethal in their threat to the player in order to mean anything. Though it's up to the game designer to mitigate things like "Fight, rest, fight, rest" as well.

I think it's an interesting challenge.

[Allan Schumacher]

Any thoughts?

Restrict the access to top tier spells? Better synergies with lower level spells?

[Allan Schumacher]

How about the idea of shared cooldowns? Would require a system that is a bit different than DAO/DA2 in how the spells are structured in order to make it clear what abilities may share a cooldown.

Other things to mitigate could be incentive for not resting (if it were a rest mechanic like older D&D). I think many gamers consider XP to be the holy grail and prefer to acquire it as efficiently as they can, and if you gain bonus xp the more hostiles you defeat between resting, might be something that causes people to stop and take notice. Within the context of DA, it'd have to require mana/stamina not have much/any regen, but probably have the pool larger. In this sense, spamming the biggest spells would make the mage less useful long term, and provide an incentive for more situational and varied spell/ability usage. In this sense, it might also fairly balance between all the classes to boot?

(note, I'm not on the combat team so I'm really just spitballing ideas lol)

[Allan Schumacher]

So a global cooldown system much like in MMOs?

Or something more along the lines of certain spells being grouped together, and casting from that pool starts a multiple round global cooldown?

Spells being grouped together, not a global cooldown. Although this can still be simulated without explicit cooldowns if wsandista's suggestion was implemented, and mana regen remained.

To use spell levels, have cooldowns grouped by spell level, with higher spell levels having different cooldowns.  Though an issue is it may start to become challenging to keep track of this information.

Problem with XP that I can see coming up is that you guys scaled combat to level in DA:O, and I think you did that in DA2 though I'm not quite as familiar with the system there. It is an incentive, but I would think even if the incentive was something significant enough that players would try to maximize it, the opportunity to trivialize intricate or difficult boss fights arises. Sure players might spend 90-95% of the time min-maxing their XP(or other incentive), but would they put the extra effort in gaining that little bit more from a single fight when it would be so much easier to rest right before, and then drop the entire mana pool worth of spells on the boss fight?

This system would probably revolve around boss fights being somewhat isolated (and perhaps challenging enough to require the player's full mana pool/selection of spells).

I don't think there's as much of an issue with each boss fight requiring the player to use the super awesome spells, but rather it become more boring that you still only use the super awesome spells in every encounter between the boss fights.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 25 octobre 2012 - 05:03 .

[Allan Schumacher]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The is not 3.5 DnD were everyone worships the awe inspiring power of your staff.

I see what you did there.


Another idea (I know, I'm throwing out a lot of them) that could be both nasty and lore appropriate is for there to be a mechanic that if you overexert your mage, then a  demon from the fade comes out to possess them.  Somthing of a none-standard game over for PC mages.   Not sure that would be workable with companions, however.

I think this would be really interesting, but at the same time difficult to successfully execute to make sure it's fun.

[Allan Schumacher]

Vandicus wrote...

So running with the idea of XP incentives(or rather anti-rest incentives of any sort), how would a player who isn't a mage or doesn't use a mage companion in their core party be able to interact with such a system?

They also have their own resource (stamina) and if we're building the system around that resource being expended using abilities and being restored while resting, it seems like it'd apply for them just the same as it would for a mage.

[Allan Schumacher]

Vandicus wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

So running with the idea of XP incentives(or rather anti-rest incentives of any sort), how would a player who isn't a mage or doesn't use a mage companion in their core party be able to interact with such a system?

They also have their own resource (stamina) and if we're building the system around that resource being expended using abilities and being restored while resting, it seems like it'd apply for them just the same as it would for a mage.

So how would you see lyrium/stamina potions interacting with the system?

Likely being rare and/or expensive.  It'd maybe turn them into the "Awesome but impractical" due to people not using them waiting for the perfect time, but I think I'd rather that than the abilities themselves.

[Allan Schumacher]

I was thinking something similar, since they don't seem to be the healthiest things!

[Allan Schumacher]

eyesofastorm wrote...

I think gaming, or at least gaming as I enjoy it, has suffered for the concern over "fun".  Consequences aren't supposed to be fun... they are supposed to suck.  Consequences that suck add to the "fun" for me because they force me to make difficult decisions at critical times to achieve victory while hopefully escaping these consequences.  The "fun" part is pulling it off successfully and I think that you guys have lost touch with that particular concept of "fun".  Just sayin'.

I think we're still using the same definition of the word fun.

Consequences can exist, which make the game more enjoyable.
Consequences can also exist, which do not make the game more enjoyable.