116 réponses à ce sujet

[Kail Ashton]

Oh good, another gaming masochist that wants to gimp the game to the point 90% of the audiance finds it annoyingly unplayible, ONCE AGAIN this is a perfect example of why developers should NEVER LISTEN TO FAN SUGESTIONS

Just play the game without using your hands, just bash your head into the leyboard, THAT'S a super challenge gimpfest for yah! it can only improve you!

[Fast Jimmy]

I understand your rage at a gameplay thread beig ignored?

But Vancian casting is a topic that's been done to absolute death. Bioware ain't gonna do it.

[upsettingshorts]

Vancian casting needs to die in a fire, but I didn't click enough on the fire spell in my spellbook so let me take a ****ing nap first.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 octobre 2012 - 02:30 .

[mesmerizedish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Vancian casting needs to die in a fire, but I didn't click enough on the fire spell in my spellbook so let me take a ****ing nap first.

You're just not smart enough to have strategically thought ahead with your spell selection.

[upsettingshorts]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Vancian casting needs to die in a fire, but I didn't click enough on the fire spell in my spellbook so let me take a ****ing nap first.

You're just not smart enough to have strategically thought ahead with your spell selection.

[Spankoman]

One way around the boredom of winning every fight with ease in an RPG is to not build your RP experience around who wins fights the best.

[Dhiro]

Are we talking about Baldur's Gate's magic system? You mean Vancian magic? The one where you reload and spams sleep all the time?

[Spankoman]

Yeah, you just end up resting right away anyway. Nobody sleeps that much.

[Maria Caliban]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Ok now everyone, just cool down.

Ish and Upsettingshorts are joking with one another.

Atakuma wrote...

Your little PC superiority complex is amusing.

My PC is actually quite large, thank you. People have often expressed surprise that I could fit a case that large into the back of someone's car.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:09 .

[The Hierophant]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Ok now everyone, just cool down.

Ish and Upsettingshorts are joking with one another.

Lol @ the Arnold Schwarzeneggar level pun.

[BerzerkGene]

Mana is the capacity. I ran out of mana so many times in Origins and DA2.
So sure you can probably spam spells as fast as possible(they had pretty short cooldowns), but then you run out of firepower pretty quick. Unless you quaff potions. Although that was nerfed in DA2. I really wondered how swallowing something can have a cooldown. "You cannot eat another potato chip for another 39 seconds!"

But with some work combat in both games was broken. in origins you had storm of the century, which cleared an entire area of enemies through sheer force, doubly so if you managed to cast another blizzard, or two storms at the same time.
Da2 had the force mage powers, combined with anything you just massacred your way through. Yank the enemies off their feet, blast them away, smash them with gravity, make them incredibly slow, then rain fireballs on them... Or cast double haste. Which made you(and allies) attack 100% faster. Double haste can even screw up meredith.

[DPSSOC]

I honestly wouldn't mind Vancian casting in a game, I actually like the system, but it woudln't work for DA. In order for Vancian casting to work you need to establish in your world that magic on the fly is either impossible or highly dangerous, DA hasn't done that. Magic by the untrained is still dangerous but once you know what you're doing you can conjure up any magical effect you know how to create as you wish and your mana allows.

I'd have no problem, and would actually really enjoy, if Bioware came out with an RPG with Vancian casting, I enjoy the more thought out nature of spell selection particularly on a first run. Like I said though it wouldn't work in DA, the rules are set.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

The problem people have with cool downs is crystallized inthe above postC possibly unitnetionally.

Layering two EXTREMEY powerful spells back to back (or even at the same time) should be a 'holy sheet, this enemy/group is going to decimate my squad - pull out all the big guns!!!'

Instead, it's the tactic every fight. Why WOULDN'T a mate just spam their most powerful spells? Mana cost isn't so disparate from lower level spells that it would matter that much... and besides, as soon as the fight is over, you'll get all of that mana back magically (no pun intended).

Is Vancian the bestest of the bestest? No. But it does teach conservation and restraint. As opposed to blasting every skill/spell and talent available until the enemy is dead, every fight in the game.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

The problem people have with cool downs is crystallized inthe above postC possibly unitnetionally.

Layering two EXTREMEY powerful spells back to back (or even at the same time) should be a 'holy sheet, this enemy/group is going to decimate my squad - pull out all the big guns!!!'

Instead, it's the tactic every fight. Why WOULDN'T a mate just spam their most powerful spells? Mana cost isn't so disparate from lower level spells that it would matter that much... and besides, as soon as the fight is over, you'll get all of that mana back magically (no pun intended).

Is Vancian the bestest of the bestest? No. But it does teach conservation and restraint. As opposed to blasting every skill/spell and talent available until the enemy is dead, every fight in the game.

But isn't that the point of the combat encounters? Why bother being a mage if you can rarely use your innate gifts? To me that would be like preventing a rogue from using Assassinate more than once in an entire combat scenario.

I can see support for perhaps a higher cost to mana, but I do enjoy flinging my magic across the screen for the duration of the battle. 

[Sarquindi]

I like it. I think I'm used to the idea from playing DnD, though. I always try to save those encounter powers for the best possible opportunity. Giving the game some "only can be used once during an encounter" abilities would prevent the need to pause the game and wait for a long recharge, as well. I would also like to see more combos. Some abilities that require you to cast so many other spells/abilities before using it, or maybe an ability that usually has a casting time will randomly let you auto cast it of you have so much mana in your bar. Some interesting things like that would be cool. They probably won't make a difference on lower difficulties, but that extra dps or major heal could save your life on nightmare. And it would keep me active, instead of brainlessly hitting "assassinate" whenever it's off CD.

And I completely agree with Sharn01 on the healing spells! I went through tons of potions because of the very slow recharge on Heal.

[Fast Jimmy]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

But isn't that the point of the combat encounters? Why bother being a mage if you can rarely use your innate gifts? To me that would be like preventing a rogue from using Assassinate more than once in an entire combat scenario. 

I can see support for perhaps a higher cost to mana, but I do enjoy flinging my magic across the screen for the duration of the battle.

Let me use my Dragon Ball Z reference. 

Why doesn't Goku just use the Spirit Bomb, right from the get go, every fight? It's super powerful and it takes care of everything. 

Because it be boring and it would diminish the role of not just the Spirit Bomb, but every other possible move or alternative. 

Does it not become mindlessly boring constantly clicking and using the same, hyper powerful spells? Instead of using more mundane skills/spells on more mundane enemies, using the 'big guns' when absolutely necessary?

Dont you want to feel your spells ARE truly powerful and devastating, because when you actually need to use them, they are a beautiful terror to behold?

[SeptimusMagistos]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

The problem people have with cool downs is crystallized inthe above postC possibly unitnetionally.

Layering two EXTREMEY powerful spells back to back (or even at the same time) should be a 'holy sheet, this enemy/group is going to decimate my squad - pull out all the big guns!!!'

Instead, it's the tactic every fight. Why WOULDN'T a mate just spam their most powerful spells? Mana cost isn't so disparate from lower level spells that it would matter that much... and besides, as soon as the fight is over, you'll get all of that mana back magically (no pun intended).

Is Vancian the bestest of the bestest? No. But it does teach conservation and restraint. As opposed to blasting every skill/spell and talent available until the enemy is dead, every fight in the game.

Not really. Just means I have to sleep every two rooms and recast the goddamn buffs again.

Seriously, though, Vancian casting is sort of okay but I'm a mage. I want to be casting spells, not being ineffective with weapons.

[Vandicus]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

The problem people have with cool downs is crystallized inthe above postC possibly unitnetionally.

Layering two EXTREMEY powerful spells back to back (or even at the same time) should be a 'holy sheet, this enemy/group is going to decimate my squad - pull out all the big guns!!!'

Instead, it's the tactic every fight. Why WOULDN'T a mate just spam their most powerful spells? Mana cost isn't so disparate from lower level spells that it would matter that much... and besides, as soon as the fight is over, you'll get all of that mana back magically (no pun intended).

Is Vancian the bestest of the bestest? No. But it does teach conservation and restraint. As opposed to blasting every skill/spell and talent available until the enemy is dead, every fight in the game.

Not really. Just means I have to sleep every two rooms and recast the goddamn buffs again.

Seriously, though, Vancian casting is sort of okay but I'm a mage. I want to be casting spells, not being ineffective with weapons.

See, now we're crossing editions here and everything is becoming confused. Its clearly not 4e because mages don't run out of juice in 4e. Its also probably not 3e since mages rarely need to be concerned about running out of spells because of how downright powerful they are. So are we talking 1e or 2e here?

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm not talking about any edition or any system, concretely. I do not think that introducing Vancian casting is even possible with the DA system.

I am merely pointing out that there is no penalty for using your most powerful spells, spells which visually appear to be able to rip open the world, in every fight, against every enemy.

I'm not advocating a sleep system. I'm not advocating a memorization system. I'm not avocations a cool down system, a mana recharge system, a progressive mana cost system, a spell reagant system, a spell book system, a long-casting time system or a charged wand system.

But I find it a waste that a Mage will only use two or three spells primarily for every fight. What's the point? Why even have other spells, if the system heavily rewards a DPS build that involves spamming a handful of spells (or skills, for non-mages)? It doesn't make me feel like I'm a mage, with the skill to manipulate the world and use my brain to address situations... it just looks like we are fighting every fight in a lightning storm, or underneath a volcano.

And spells that should rip the face off the Maker himself bounce off on most enemies (especially high level or bosses), which defeats the purpose as well. Arishok duel solo as a Mage... tell me that makes you feel 'powerful.'

[Allan Schumacher]

Any thoughts?

Restrict the access to top tier spells? Better synergies with lower level spells?

[TheJediSaint]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Any thoughts?

Restrict the access to top tier spells? Better synergies with lower level spells?

One thought would be a system similar to the ammo resouce for troopers in The Old Republic.   If you let your resources fall below 50%, your regeneration rate became much much slower.   If you exausted all your ammo, you either have to stop using abllies and wait a long time to recharge or you use cooldwon ablity that restores your ammo.

The idea is that you would have to pace the use of your ablites in order to maintain an optimal damage output.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:32 .

[Face of Evil]

I find having abilities that are basically one-time use means that I never use them, as I hold on to them in case of an emergency. But in my mind, the "emergency" is always something of ridiculous proportions.

A high dragon has torn my arms off? Better save my magical nuke in case the next fight is TWO high dragons stapled together!

I don't see what's the problem with the system we have now.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:31 .

[wsandista]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Any thoughts?

Restrict the access to top tier spells? Better synergies with lower level spells?

Have the top tier spells have a ridiculously high mana cost.

[DPSSOC]

How would people feel about the top tier abilities being really powerful but the game only lets you use them once per loaded area? So if you go into Lowtown in DA2 and drop a bomb on a group of random thugs you won't be able to do it again unless you leave and re-enter Lowtown. Not sure how feasible this is and they'd have to adjust, some what, enemy composition.