43 réponses à ce sujet

[NRieh]

I've been thinking, whether it's possible at all to get previous character in a game as cameo. We don't know yet, what will devs decide. But there was a quote saying that "Warden and Hawke may appear if you played the first two games and as NPCs." So, it did not even say that they "will", just " may". But it also did not say "mentioned" - it said "appear as NPC".

Main problem I see here is custom appearance. Even Lt.Cmdr. Shepard knows how tricky it may be - to import face properly. Not to mention, that such a feature will hardly be developed just for the sake of short optional cameo. A friend of mine suggested, that they may just use "default" Hawkes. But...I doubt I need to explain how ugly this "solution" is. And there is no such thing as iconic "default Warden" anyway. 

Warden has one more issue - player never heared Warden speaking. Yes, there were few combat words, but there were not so much of them to get used to the voice. So, speaking Warden character, probably, won't make anyone happy. Or, at least, cause some heavy immersion glitches. Even if custom appearance problem is somehow dealt with. 

In fact I see at least two ways to let it happen. Those are simple ones. So it's possible, that they were considered somehow already by developers.

1. Masquerade Ball.  That one was mentioned many times as something planned. It just asks "Please, dear writers, put a lot of easter eggs among those costumes", isn't it? If devs do need Hawke APPEAR  - why not to make some...I dunno, "hawk costume" voiced by same VAs? And even some friends and lovers can be somewhere around...(voting for templar suit for Anders!!!! :innocent: )

Works less perfect for Warden - because, as I said, no recognizable voice. And possible "Hawk" is only two models (male and female human), while Warden is...yes, you counted right - 6 models (each race of both genders). Unless Warden wears Ogre or Golem costume (full scale).

2. Fade is another option. You know, all those blurry and shifting textures and shapes. They will only have to respect class and gender (which still leaves 6 models for Warden). It can ignore custom face pretty much. And also - in the Fade anything may appear as....well, anything. So if you think of it - they may ignore everything at all.  But that would look almost as cheap and dull as a bucket on a head, or voices speaking from behind the curtain. Works same mediocre for both. And Warden still has "no voice" issue.  

As I understand it - chances for Warden to appear as recognizable "oneself" are very slim.  Chances for Hawke look much higher, though - because you may recognize him (her) without seeing a face.


What do you think? Thoughts? Ideas? 

Note: It's not about whether we (players) need Hawke  or Warden in DA3 or not. It's about how can this (theorethically) happen with lesser harm, if we assume that devs are going to involve them anyway (as was stated in a quote).   

[chuckwells62]

For me, the best option to allow for something like the return of the Warden or Hawke, if Bioware was interested in caving to fans wishes, would be to do a specific Inquisition dlc that was structured to allow for these iconic figures to appear. Then you could tailor the entire thing as a special quest for a specific reason. By traveling to wherever Hawke or the Warden were to gain information or items of significance that would then import back to the single player campaign, they would allow us to scratch that itch and have a reference of point of value for mentioning our previous protagonists in the here and now.

Modifié par chuckwells62, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:13 .

[Angelo2027]

I really would love to see my hawke and warden and the voice of the warden you actually chose it when you where creating him/her only that he only actual says some combat words and nothing more but you actually know how he sounds so I really don't see the problem.

[Amirit]

As far as I understand, the problem is not with what those Hawke and Warden will do, the question is how they will look like in the game.

I am sure everyone here spent hours perfecting that one look for your Hawek. Are you ok with that face to be replaced with default F/M Hawke from the Prologue?

Honestly, I did not expect anything in this area since all my Hawkes and Wardens were made with CC mods and can not possibly be recreated on another engine. And I am sure I was not alone in it. So, since we learned about their cameo presence I was sure default face is what we can get.
From the other hand, there is no such thing as default face for Warden. Do not know what Developers will decide but I like OP's ideas. Both of them.

Modifié par Amirit, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:11 .

[Stippling]

Unless the intent is to surprise us (which wouldn't seem to be working very well because of the amount of buzz regarding this issue), I would think the wisest thing to do would be to allow for us to see and modify Warden/Hawke during the import process. I would much rather see a disfigured image of my warden and be given the chance to try to spruce him up versus being totally at the mercy of an attempt at duplication.

In essence, I would rather have something "close" made by me than something "close" generated by code.

Or the helmet thing would work too, though it is kind of a cop out.

[NRieh]

I really would love to see my hawke and warden and the voice of the warden you actually chose it when you where creating him/her only that he only actual says some combat words and nothing more but you actually know how he sounds so I really don't see the problem.

Well, I only have two of them (so far), and I can't call any of two voices neither fitting much or memorable. Also - Hawke takes just 2 VAs.

Anyone know how many real VAs were involved into voicing Warden's combat words? I never compared, all I know is that each race and gender has several options. Very likely - some are same VA with different manner of acting. And even so - can you imagine re-voicing something in same manner after all those years? I'd think about one voice per race-gender combo, which still makes 6, and which sounds hell expensive for a cameo.

So - I can't see how Warden may appear walking and talking (as that's what NPCs usually do). If we're talking about OUR Warden here, of course, not some random model NPC. We can see his\\her corpse (very hurt and burned), we can see some ethereal Fade creature saying "I used to be Hero of Ferelden, like you....".

Still - there are ways to let us meet "faceless" Hawke and recognize him(her).

And a small detail that would actually mean a lot, I think.
Grab Hawke and\\or Warden's NAME from import. I think I can forgive mismatching voice and bucket on a head. If only those "NPCs" had their names on nameplates (or on a letter, or...somewhere else).

I know it can't be spoken. But who ever told us that it can't be written? That's just a small text variable. DAO used it all the time - so devs should know where to look for it.

[DeathScepter]

we don't "need" Hawke or the Warden within DA3

[Knight of Dane]

DeathScepter wrote...

we don't "need" Hawke or the Warden within DA3

Yes, keep them out of it. It's only going to get messy.

[Amirit]

DeathScepter wrote...

we don't "need" Hawke or the Warden within DA3

Mb we don't but here: http://social.biowar...ndex/14590429/1 you can read
"Warden and Hawke may appear if you played the first two games and as NPCs." Almost an official confirmation.

So, the question is - how?

Modifié par Amirit, 24 octobre 2012 - 04:55 .

[Rune-Chan]

I do not want any playable characters returning in future Bioware games unless we are playing them again.

Unless we can import appearances and they do not speak or do anything that could go against the characters we created, then it will just be awful.

Do people really want Bioware to completely decide what our characters say and do?

[NRieh]

@DeathScepter, Knight of Dane
Reading OP is too much to ask for nowadays, right?..

Do people really want Bioware to completely decide what our characters say and do?

You may be surprised, but that's what game developers do. They decide what characters say and do. Including PC. Sometimes - with few variations.

Modifié par Nrieh, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:32 .

[the_one_54321]

No. Stop asking.

[DreamwareStudio]

I don't want previous characters used as cameos, whether it be my PC or a NPC. It cheapens what preceded the cameo.

[Amirit]

It's not up to you, is it? We are trying to find the less traumatic way to do it, that's all.

[wright1978]

If they are going to appear, having them appear together might make sense. Hawke can do the talking and this can joked about if queried. If Warden is dead hawke appears alone. Their identities wouldn't be immediately be made apparent until end of quest and they would be wearing concealing headgear to keep their anonimity. Eventually once inquisitor has earned trust their identities could be revealed and it could be revealed that Warden didn't want to be recognised that's why he/she didn't speak.

All that would be required was to specify the gender and race of the characters.

[DreamwareStudio]

Amirit wrote...

It's not up to you, is it? We are trying to find the less traumatic way to do it, that's all.

Nor is it up to you or anyone else outside the developmental department at EA. I did nothing more than state my opinion, same as everyone else.

Modifié par google_calasade, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:51 .

[Amirit]

google_calasade wrote...

Amirit wrote...

It's not up to you, is it? We are trying to find the less traumatic way to do it, that's all.

Nor is it up to you or anyone else outside the developmental department at EA. I did nothing more than state my opinion, same as everyone else.

You sure did but without reading even original post. Let's try it again.
Here: Edmonton Expo information

"Dragon Age 3 Info Protagonist is human. Player can choose different backgrounds for their character that will affect portions of the story. Warden and Hawke may appear if you played the first two games and as NPCs. Flemeth is coming back. Dragon Age is not a trilogy but there will be a close to certain stories, “threads.”The is a big Quanri story waiting to be told. Not a big focus of the story but we will learn more. Importing save files from previous games are presenting an issue due to the switch in engines. However they are looking at how to keep the Player’s choices. We are going across many lands this time around. "

Enough reasons to believe this IS goint to happen. So, here you go - developers did tell it. And all what is left to us is to discuss - how exactly it can be done.

Modifié par Amirit, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:01 .

[UrgentArchengel]

I would live to see my Warden-Commander Kyruu Cousland kick ass back to back with my Champion of Kirkwall, Arth Hawke. It would be just epic. But realistically, the warden can appear anywhere being helmeted, and armored so they can limit the number of models. The Ball thing would be funny.

[Wulfram]

If they make the character faceless, generic and bland enough to appear in the game without causing offence, what would be the point of doing it?

[Knight of Dane]

Machines Are Us wrote...
Do people really want Bioware to completely decide what our characters say and do?

Apparently...
*Looks at thread about autodialogue*
People don't know themselves...

[wright1978]

Wulfram wrote...

If they make the character faceless, generic and bland enough to appear in the game without causing offence, what would be the point of doing it?

Given they made a plotpoint of their disappearance. I'd prefer if they briefly played a part during a key moment to staying disappeared or being killed off screen.

[OdanUrr]

I'd rather they didn't appear... at all.

[Celtic Latino]

I would just cover them up in armor (warriors/rogues) or robes (mages), concealing their skin and face. There's no way they're going to be imported, especially with the new Frostbite engine, and there's certainly no way they're going to let us tailor their appearance. For all we know there's probably going to be a set canon like they did with Revan (canon gender, appearance and class).

[LobselVith8]

My Surana Warden left his life as a Warden behind to leave with Morrigan and his trusted Mabari Hound to go through the Eluvian, to unite with his son and walk into the destination unknown. I'm not certain he has a role to play with the Grey Wardens anymore. I imagine he's probably helping Morrigan prepare for the changes that are about to descend upon Thedas. Perhaps Morrigan may allude to this in dialogue, if she makes an appearance in Inquisition? Or the Inquisitor could see the two of them together in the distance?

As for my apostate Hawke, it's possible he's leading a group of rebel mages, given Anders' dialogue about him being the leader mages have been waiting centuries for. Given Varric's concluding conversation with Cassandra, Merrill would be with him. I suppose the Inquisitor could hear news about this, since the Templar-Mage War is erupting across Thedas.

Possible scenerios if "cameos" are mandatory. I think direct conversations with either the Hero of Ferelden or the Champion would be a mistake, since it would end up stepping on the toes of players who feel they lost the agency over their protagonists. The cameos themselves could end up backfiring badly, and that may be something Bioware would want to avoid, given the reception of Dragon Age II.

[Vestua]

They could just impliment a system that allows you to customize their appearances and the what they did in the story at the start of the game.