24 réponses à ce sujet

[Travie]

 This was my absolute favorite specialization of any of the two games, any chance of it returning!?

[DaringMoosejaw]

I loved it as well, and I hope so, but my bet is that it won't. It's too radical a shift from the main class in concept.

[Battlebloodmage]

If it doesn't return, I hope there is a type of battlemage in the game.

[caradoc2000]

Hopefully they leave AW where it belongs - the Graveyard of Bad Ideas.

[DaringMoosejaw]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Hopefully they leave AW where it belongs - the Graveyard of Bad Ideas.

I don't suppose you feel like expounding on that.

[Travie]

I just keep seeing it from an enemy's perspective.

If you're a seasoned veteran you basically know how to approach another warrior, and probably a mage too even though they are rare... it's when you see a fully armored guy throwing a fireball your way that you start to worry...

Modifié par Travie, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:29 .

[caradoc2000]

classes and specializations should be kept diverse - mages should not be warriors or rogues.

[Rune-Chan]

caradoc2000 wrote...

classes and specializations should be kept diverse - mages should not be warriors or rogues.

That is still not helpful, as you give no reasons as to why you feel that way.

[Travie]

Whats wrong with hybrid characters? As long as they aren't forced on the player, they just add diversity and replayability.

[Wulfram]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I don't suppose you feel like expounding on that.

It was horribly unbalanced, because the armoured mage was basically unkillable and easily out-tanked a warrior.  It was rather boring, because the spell caster didn't have any talents to use with their weapon.  And the whole thing about having to put your weapon away to cast was annoying.

I don't object to the concept, but the DA:O class was poorly designed IMO.

Modifié par Wulfram, 24 octobre 2012 - 06:55 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I like it. Only because I love wearing armor and carrying swords instead of sissy robes and ugly hats.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 24 octobre 2012 - 06:55 .

[caradoc2000]

Machines Are Us wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

classes and specializations should be kept diverse - mages should not be warriors or rogues.

That is still not helpful, as you give no reasons as to why you feel that way.

Lack of diversity per se is a bad thing. Having four jack-of-all--trades in your party is not my idea of fun. You don't have to plan how to best use party members and their various strengths for a tactical advantage.

It is also bad for replayability if every one of your PCs ends up being the same. This already happened to me in Kingdoms of Amalur. One of the specializations there is even called "Universalist", and of of the achievements "Jack Of All Trades".

Modifié par caradoc2000, 24 octobre 2012 - 07:07 .

[ScarMK]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

classes and specializations should be kept diverse - mages should not be warriors or rogues.

That is still not helpful, as you give no reasons as to why you feel that way.

Lack of diversity per se is a bad thing. Having four jack-of-all--trades in your party is not my idea of fun. You don't have to plan how to best use party members and their various strengths for a tactical advantage.

It is also bad for replayability if every one of your PCs ends up being the same. This already happened to me in Kingdoms of Amalur. One of the specializations there is even called "Universalist", and of of the achievements "Jack Of All Trades".

If you're picking AW simply because it was a strong if not OP spec, then that almost sounds like you're meta gaming.  Just picking the spec because it's stronger than the rest. 

[caradoc2000]

ScarMK wrote...

If you're picking AW simply because it was a strong if not OP spec, then that almost sounds like you're meta gaming.  Just picking the spec because it's stronger than the rest. 

But if classes are really disjoint, you have to pick one or the other. I think Bioware went into the right direction in DA2 with classes when for example warriors could no longer dual-wield.

[Plato]

If they made it a bit more interresting than: "congrats now you can wear heavy armor, a sword and go ghost mode". I'd love to see it return if they made a combination of Battlemage and Arcane Warrior specs from DA:O.

[JWvonGoethe]

Considering that it seems like just about everyone who played Skyrim did so as a kind of arcane warrior (fighting with magic in one hand and a sword in the other), it would probably be a popular choice.

But I think that it's unlikely: David Gaider said specialisations will probably "have a more profound impact, both on the story as well as your character, so you'll likely be limited to just one."

If we are only getting to choose one specialisation then, added to the fact that each one seems to be fully supported in the game unlike ever before, I would say that I can't see us getting more than three to choose from per class. And if there are only three per class, I can't see one of the mage specialisations being so similar to the warrior class.

It was great fun to play as in Origins though, even if it was overpowered. If they can bring it back, they should.

EDIT: here's the link to the DG quote 
http://dragonage.wik...s_fan_questions

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[Gamemako]

Battlemages and spellswords are not exactly a new idea. I play them in the vast majority of games where they are an option.

caradoc, you have neglected the other half of the saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none." That is the design that keeps standard battlemage designs from being too powerful -- they may be good at a lot of things, but they're not great at any one thing and are outdone by someone else in every facet. Dragon Age has the issue of having a stat set that doesn't work very well -- most classes need one or two stats out of the six. DA3 should make all stats valuable to all classes in different proportions, which innately balances the jack-of-all-trades.

[astreqwerty]

insta buy if they include aw (kiddin)...but i love that spec

[caradoc2000]

I just prefer my classes to be as unique as possible.

[Iosev]

My issue with the Arcane Warrior specialization is that it does not have much synergy with the majority of mage spells. In general, the class is designed around ranged casting, whereas the specialization is geared towards close, weapon combat. In practice, a player using the AW spec activates a bunch of sustained abilities (e.g., Combat Magic, Shimmering Shield, Miasma, Rock Armor, etc.) and then relies on auto-attack, resulting in a rather boring and tedious (due to constantly refreshing sustainables) playstyle.

To further confound the issue, if you used some of the more unbalanced abilities like Mana Clash, Blood Wound, or so on, large groups of enemies would already be dead before you even get a chance to auto-attack (on Nightmare, no less).

I'll be honest, the only reason I used the Arcane Warrior specialization was simply for aesthetic purposes (I disliked most of the robe appearances). If the AW spec were to return, it would have to be dramatically altered to make it more enjoyable gameplay-wise. Ideally, if you are an AW, you should be using magic-based, weapon attacks and instant, short range spells, not spells that a ranged caster would be using (i.e., the majority of the current, mage spells).

Modifié par arcelonious, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:17 .

[Gamemako]

caradoc2000 wrote...

I just prefer my classes to be as unique as possible.

Providing characters with distinct roles results in party homogenization. If you need a healer and a tank, then everyone will bring one of each. It doesn't matter whether you want to or not. That makes everyone's party the same, despite having very distinct classes. There must be overlap if there is to be any sort of variation in party makeup. You must be able to sub in someone else to fulfill various other roles. Guild Wars 2 had all kinds of fun with this by giving everyone a healing ability, making everyone the same but yet so very different.

I think we can agree that DA:O did things poorly with the way it overlapped skills because the overlap lacked uniqueness. Stats were also poorly designed, allowing Rogues to be 100% superior to Warriors in every way. It was a bit of a mess. DA2 didn't do much better, giving you six stats and all but pointed and laughed at you when you used something other than the prescribed two, resulting in cookie-cutter hell.

//EDIT:

arcelonious wrote...

My issue with the Arcane Warrior specialization is that it does not have much synergy with the majority of mage spells...

That's a problem of the past, not for the future. If you put an AW in DA2, Blood Wound wouldn't do him much good.

Modifié par Gamemako, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:18 .

[happy_daiz]

I liked the Arcane Warrior specialization, but frankly, I sucked at it. I think I liked the idea of it more than the actual practice of it.

I'd prefer to see a return of the Ranger class. With an option of longbows and crossbows, and the ability to summon an animal at will. Heck, yeah.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:23 .

[caradoc2000]

Gamemako wrote...

Providing characters with distinct roles results in party homogenization. If you need a healer and a tank, then everyone will bring one of each. It doesn't matter whether you want to or not. That makes everyone's party the same, despite having very distinct classes.

Not necessarily, I just completed act 1 in DA2 without using mages (unless mandatory). You might need a rogue, for example, but you can still decide whether to use a ranged or a melee one.

Anyway, this is getting a bit off the original topic. My gut feeling is that we won't see AW again in DA3.

[Dr Mew]

Here's my two pence on the subject;

Arcane Warrior was an excellent class in DA:O. Yeah it was OP'D in the sense that you could end up getting hit once every 10 seconds for about 4-6 pts of damage when surrounded by 10 enemies but at the end of the day, RPGs are about your characters ascent to epic/legendary levels of skill and power. Who wouldn't want their character to feel like a demi god?


Having said that, I would really love to see AW make a comeback in DA3 - Altered heavily though, hopefully turning it from just a mage with a sword and armour and more along the lines of fusion of the pair.

I think it would really set the class apart if rather than using the typical spells that mages get access to, AWs got a completely seperate spell skill tree built around weaving the magic into your weapon/fighting style, such as; having an extention of arcane bolt which has the user a 'shockwave' of magic through a slash of their sword, summoning their hands from another dimension (That move that Hawk used in the DF2 Trailer "Destiny") and either dragging the opponent towards them, hurling them into something, tearing them apart ect or enchancing their weapon with an element. Just so it makes them actually appear as if they are a fusion of two classes rather than two awkwardly glued together.

But all in all, Hybirds classes add to game play and realism in my opinion. I find it slightly unnerving if everyone is focused on a single aspect of fighting or combat. Afterall, why wouldn't a warrior want to duel wield weapons, rouge learn some kinds of magic to help sneak through the shadows better or mages learn how to better use a sword? Yeah, maybe everyone doesn't want to do it but I'm sure a fair few would want to.

Modifié par Dr Mew, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:08 .

[Gamemako]

caradoc2000 wrote...

My gut feeling is that we won't see AW again in DA3.

Hard to say for sure, but I'd have to guess that you're right. Gaider indicated that specs will be more meaningful, which says to me that we'll probably see 1 spec per character and 3 total options. Mages will undoubtedly have SH and BM plus a third neutral option. Since SH and BM are specific morality-type specs, the neutral spec would probably also be casting-focused, like Force Mage was (though I kinda doubt we'll see the return of force mage). The most unfortunate but likely option is that the AW-type character will be sewn into the SH spec, with the large health regen bonuses from DA2 having a caster-focused evolution.