616 réponses à ce sujet

[Tronar]

Leland Gaunt wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...
We are still looking at other balance changes, including some potential Gold changes for future updates. But we felt Bronze/Silver were higher priority since a lot more players play those 2 difficulties.

That confirms what I always felt: the nerfs and buffs cater to silver-level-players.
Nice to actually have that confirmed now, it explains a lot.

Yep, our assumptions got confirmed. The main focus of the game is obviously the Silver difficulty.
That's probably why you have a nice gaming experience as long as you don't leave Silver.

And above that difficulty the BS starts to happen. Weird bugs and glitches occur way more often.
Certain classes that worked perfectly on silver suddenly create a lot of problems and are not fun anymore.

And while I agree that the Demolisher was a beast on Silver easily scoring top of the leaderboard, this is completely different for Gold. There are way more enemies coming at you, so you needed the grenade supply. Now the demolisher lost a lot of his charm for me.

At least grant one grenade automatically at the end of the wave, since some of the ammo is replenished automatically as well. So you don't have to run from ammo box to ammo box like crazy, only to get your grenade supply back up again.

[FrankNstyle]

I have to assume the people crying about the Destroyer being overpowered haven't really played it. In a game full of space wizards and mediocre guns, the Destroyer traded off speed and space magic in exchange for more efficient weapon use. It wasn't overpowered, it was a gun class with enough of a bump to make it moderately effective in a team of other characters which make magical explosions for a living. Heck I can score way higher using an old fashioned Geth Engineer with a GPS, and burn though almost no medigel since he can dodge incoming fire so easily. The destroyer wasn't overpowered, he was passable. And the reason the stats were up is clearly due to people using the one single weapons based class to get the new weapons based achievements.

The biggest mystery is why they would choose to nerf devastator mode, when the Krogan Vanguard is now post patch indestructible. With the Kroguard, gold can be soloed by a button mashing Spider Monkey. Count me in as one of the people dropping out. I got rid of the game yesterday evening, but not because "they broke my favorite toy" or anything. It's just gotten tiresome watching every good decision that gets made be totally undermined by another remarkably dumb one.

[Rifneno]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Destroyer was frankly way too powerful and one of the reasons he was the most played kit in the game along with the Demolisher (they were both way above everyone else). Also, Devastator Mode made it very difficult to balance many weapons, especially weapons that have regenerating ammo (Collector Weapons) or get damage bonuses after a charge up time like the PPR.

Please test him in game before jumping to conclusions. He is still a very powerful kit.

This is pretty hilarious coming from the guy who thought the assault rifle high velocity barrel wasn't terrible.

[skiadopsendow]

Tronar wrote...

OmegaDestroyer wrote...

Why the changes to devastator mode and the supply pylon?

Yep. I didn't see so many Destroyers or Demolishers in the random lobbies. And the only thing the Demolisher has going for him are the grenades. Other classes can spam powers infinitely, but the Demolisher always has to watch his grenade supply.

And the Destroyer?

Devastator Mode Power
- Base magazine size bonus decreased from 25% to 15%
- Rank 2 magazine size bonus decreased from 10% to 5%
- Evolution 3 magazine size bonus decreased from 25% to 15%
- Evolution 4 rate of fire bonus decreased from 25% to 15%

Seriously? One nerf wasn't enough? This badly reminds me of the Krysae.

First you nerfed the Typhoon and now the Devastator Mode? When the pair came out, it was a Boss killing machine. Then you declasses the only really good Assault Rifle that was Machine Gun style. And now you also nerf the Devastator Mode?

Now all is left is another boring Soldier in the generally not that interesting Soldier class. And compared to the Human Soldier and the Turian Soldier the fire rate is now a joke.

Why would you do that? People didn't use the Toothpick Launcher, because it was a joke. No need to nerf the Devastator mode to make speccing the Launcher more interesting... buffing the Launcher would have been sufficient.

If I hadn't recently discovered the Batarian Soldier (thanks to a friend), I would have lost again my interest in the soldier class in general.

The brotarian is an awesome soldier
For me was even better than the destroyer, and i really like the destroyer, well i haven't played him yet (post nerf), i hope it isnt that bad as it may sounds

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

Demolisher nerf makes no sense. Logic fallows:

BioWare creates a class based on casting grenadesPlayers use the class as a grenade casterBioWare then nerfs the rate the grenades can be obtained.

Just shows that BioWare contradicts itself with the balance changes sometimes. Might as well make every caster class have to use something to regenerate biotic powers and give them a count of times they can use the biotics until they have to go consume more of the item to regain them. Then make this substance extreamly limited a well.

Then all tech powers would need the players to share a very limited supply of batteries to be able to use them more.

Combat powers would need to have something to replenish those as well to use them after you run out of their count as well.

Then to keep running and meleeing we need to consume energy drinks or we will start to walk and then walk slower until we're crawling if we don't get an energy drink.

Modifié par ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:15 .

[HusarX]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Destroyer was frankly way too powerful and one of the reasons he was the most played kit in the game along with the Demolisher (they were both way above everyone else).

This is interesting. So the Destroyer was too popular, people had to much FUN by playing this kit so you decided to nerf it? Also, why was it an unexpected "ninja-nerf"? Why didn't you ask us " Hey guys what do you think about..." before applying the changes. Present somebody with a fait accompli is not cool.

[Bleachrude]

???

Dont change BSN. Not once has anyone said "oh, let's adapt and see if it works" but automatically goes into the negative.

As for the demolishers, you start the game with 60 grenades at the least....plus what ever you get from your pylon and ammo boxes...

Demolishers were running out of grenades>?

[Rifneno]

Bleachrude wrote...

???

Dont change BSN. Not once has anyone said "oh, let's adapt and see if it works" but automatically goes into the negative.

As for the demolishers, you start the game with 60 grenades at the least....plus what ever you get from your pylon and ammo boxes...

Demolishers were running out of grenades>?

"If I can still manage to kill some stuff" ≠ "If this is still fun"

[Zakk86]

I play the demolisher alot,it's one of my favorites ,..and I'm perfectly okay with the small nerf they did to it...I don't see what the fuss is about waiting 4 more seconds for more grenades...I'm sure during that 4 seconds you can fire off your gun ..there's a concept. Bioware keep up the good work,:Dlove the new hazard maps and the new kits.

Modifié par Zakk86, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:51 .

[ElectroNeonPanda]

The problem I have with the Demo nerf is it wouldn't have been such an issue in the past but since the targeted eradication of camping the chances of you receiving ammo from your pylon just became significantly worse due to the forced need to remain mobile and the increased time between ammo spawns. The kit has taken a significant nerf to its damage potential as a result of this in addition to the other changes.

[SgtAmazing]

Rifneno wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

???

Dont change BSN. Not once has anyone said "oh, let's adapt and see if it works" but automatically goes into the negative.

As for the demolishers, you start the game with 60 grenades at the least....plus what ever you get from your pylon and ammo boxes...

Demolishers were running out of grenades>?

"If I can still manage to kill some stuff" ≠ "If this is still fun"

They are making it more difficult to do that...

[Rifneno]

SgtAmazing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

???

Dont change BSN. Not once has anyone said "oh, let's adapt and see if it works" but automatically goes into the negative.

As for the demolishers, you start the game with 60 grenades at the least....plus what ever you get from your pylon and ammo boxes...

Demolishers were running out of grenades>?

"If I can still manage to kill some stuff" ≠ "If this is still fun"

They are making it more difficult to do that...

Exactly.  I can still kill stuff, but it's just not fun.

[D.Shepard]

FrankNstyle wrote...

I have to assume the people crying about the Destroyer being overpowered haven't really played it. In a game full of space wizards and mediocre guns, the Destroyer traded off speed and space magic in exchange for more efficient weapon use. It wasn't overpowered, it was a gun class with enough of a bump to make it moderately effective in a team of other characters which make magical explosions for a living.

He is also a character that cannot dodge, thus evading enemy fire. Nerfing it means placing the class in the "down powered" category. I also had problems with shields in the last waves; it seems it's a bug of some sort.

So we have just another un-fun class... The community interest for the game increased with the last dlc and we other fun ruining nerfs.

I don't care if there are more buffs then nerfs, as many are quick to mention, since I don't want to game to be easier or harder but I want it to be fun.

Just one last note: November is near and many players will have to choose between an incoming sequal to a famour videogame series and continue to play ME3 MP.  If the fun classes get nerfed what do you think most players will do?... just a small note, as I said

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Good god. This is getting tiring. At evo 1 Pylon ammo spawns at ~11.2 seconds and grenades at 14.4 seconds. If you run completely out of ammo in that time, you are bad at your job.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

@D.Shepard: How in the world you people think an accumulative decrease in 7-8% burst fire and 10% clip size decrease is beyond me. Try the damn class before you jump to conclusions. Perhaps post a video of how it's been ZOMG RUINED! If a power is being neglected by a majority of players, that's a problem.

This is a gift, it's paid with a price,
Who is the Lamb and who is the knife?

[Trontor]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Destroyer was frankly way too powerful and one of the reasons he was the most played kit in the game along with the Demolisher (they were both way above everyone else). Also, Devastator Mode made it very difficult to balance many weapons,

I can believe that.

Does that mean that you will be able to buff the N7 Typhoon? Because at low levels (which is what most players have) it is absolutely laughable at the moment. The only worse Assault Rifle is the Geth Pulse Rifle.

especially weapons that have regenerating ammo (Collector Weapons) or get damage bonuses after a charge up time like the PPR.

Please test him in game before jumping to conclusions. He is still a very powerful kit.

I don't care too much about the nerfs of those two classes. I never liked the Destroyer and the Demolisher was only really good for camping which the patch and the DLC made unpractical anyway.

I however think that you have failed to achieve balance. I'm strongly suspecting that all the gunslingers who used these two classes will just move to one particular replacement class (I'll leave guessing that class as an exercise for the reader). I suspect that you have made the problem twice as bad.

Modifié par JustAnotherVanguard, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:18 .

[D.Shepard]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

@D.Shepard: How in the world you people think an accumulative decrease in 7-8% burst fire and 10% clip size decrease is beyond me. Try the damn class before you jump to conclusions. Perhaps post a video of how it's been ZOMG RUINED! If a power is being neglected by a majority of players, that's a problem.

This is a gift, it's paid with a price,
Who is the Lamb and who is the knife?

I was talking about the approach to "nerf the fun". If I want to spend my entire day to make calculations I would do for something more useful then in-game events.
If the "accumulative decrease" is so insignificant to not alter the class WHY bringing into existence?
If it changes nothing, it's useless, then it would be logical to not change the class.

Beside I just expressed my own opinion and I don't have to post a video to prove something to you. No offence intended...

What do you mean with the "This is a gift, it's paid with a price, Who is the Lamb and who is the knife"?

I may have to try the class before I "jump" to conclusion but you have to repsect the right to express opinions before you jump to conclusions. No offence intented...

[Bon3zz1001]

Maybe I missed something but why is it that even with the 50% power boost for Drells the Drell adepts reave is still weaker than the Asari Justicars?

[Chi_Mangetsu]

@D.Shepard:
HML was given a base damage bonus and then reduction to shield penalty (40% meaning it reduces shield by only 10% rather than 25% rather than 35%). The changes aren't useless. The tweak sacrifices a miniscule amount of what made the class one-track to make a power that was being snubbed out of hand viable, hence the reference to Florence + the Machine's "Rabbit Heart."

Jumping to conclusions about jumping to conclusions? Having read this entire thread, I can tell you it really doesn't work that way. So much butthurt.

[nSquared75]

Anyone who feels that a 4 second increase at their Pylon is no big deal needs to play Collectors/Glacier on Gold/Platinum. There isn't going to be camping at the pylon to begin with and, you'll always be on the run. This equates to barely even seeing your pylon. Add the possibility that you'll be joining another players with grenade powers and, guess what? You'll be primarily relying on your guns. Well, there are kits out there better suited for gun blazing destruction. No point having the powers if they aren't readily available. Wasn't the point of the pylon was to prevent the need for the Demolisher to empty the ammo boxes just to use his ability?

The Devastator was not in any way OP and, he actually made the PPR fun to use. Mainly due to being able to max its potential. Again, it was NOT OP. The GI actually hits harder with the PPR than the Destroyer. Of course you can always "adjust" to the balance chages with consumables, but that entire concept bothers me.

Perhaps, a lvl X PPR just pwns all making the Destroyer OP but, I wouldn't know since, I only have a level one. After testing yesterdays changes, I was able to take down an Atlas "Bronze solo" after my 3rd PPR recharge.I can clearly state that I was not feeling the powaaaa.

The point of nerfing anything in this game unless it risks breaking it.Just because it is popular; doesn't mean it's overused. One would think it is indicative that it is fun. Not to mention that this is a cooperative game. It's hurting no one. In the beginning all I used to see were Krogans, especially the Battlemaster. The Krogans are still a formidable force but, the time of consistently seeing them crowding a lobby is over. It's a cycle that's only indicative to the fact that we like new things. It's even better when those things are good.

The N7's are still pretty new, especially for many newer players. Even the N7 character details make them sound a God-like force to be reckoned with. Why does it seem that the players are being punished for enjoying something that was provided for them? If it's new and awesome; chances are is that the players will flock to it. If it's weak than they'll go back to what they enjoy so, why lessen the enjoyment?

This isn't a whine. I simply question the logic behind it all. It really doesn't make sense. I've never understood why one would dumb something down in order to make the other seem adequate. If others characters have fallen behind due to the new guy, why not bring them up to par? Most of player affected don't even have the equipment to make these"OP" kits shine to their "OP" potential.

Modifié par nSquared75, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:53 .

[Chi_Mangetsu]

@nSquared75:

to use his ability

Her. Demolisher is female.

Read some other posts in this thread, hell, on this page for an answer to your question of "why lessen the enjoyment."

[Rifneno]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

@nSquared75:

to use his ability

Her. Demolisher is female.

Read some other posts in this thread, hell, on this page for an answer to your question of "why lessen the enjoyment."

I love that all you could come up with to actually correct in his post was the gender of the character.  Failtastic.

[nSquared75]

@Chi_Mangetsu

What's next? Going to correct grammar too? There isn't a logical answer to the question, posted. Hence, is why it was asked.

Modifié par nSquared75, 25 octobre 2012 - 02:11 .

[Der Ivan91]

Bah, they nerfed the Destroyer, now the class became pretty much USELESS

@bioware- you should stop nerfing already balanced classes, all you are doing is making good classes utterly useless, I mean:

N7 destroyer before October 24th nerf:
Very good for gold runs, very effective when used in combination with the Typhoon/Particle rifle, cannot be stunned while in D-mode and when you choose the more shield evolution, you become the hardest-to-kill (soldier) class in the game, the only drawback being its slow movement speed

Situation NOW:
You have significantly less dps and less base bonus clip size
Now the N7 destroyer is just a normal soldier with slightly faster rate of fire who cannot be stunned >.<

And fix the Collectors already

[Beerfish]

Der Ivan91 wrote...

Bah, they nerfed the Destroyer, now the class became pretty much USELESS

@bioware- you should stop nerfing already balanced classes, all you are doing is making good classes utterly useless, I mean:

N7 destroyer before October 24th nerf:
Very good for gold runs, very effective when used in combination with the Typhoon/Particle rifle, cannot be stunned while in D-mode and when you choose the more shield evolution, you become the hardest-to-kill (soldier) class in the game, the only drawback being its slow movement speed

Situation NOW:
You have significantly less dps and less base bonus clip size
Now the N7 destroyer is just a normal soldier with slightly faster rate of fire who cannot be stunned >.<

And fix the Collectors already

And the bolded part is bad why?