616 réponses à ce sujet

[jordie3000]

Latino Peringo wrote...

i want buffing on characters we play as not debuffing Can i also say that Geth Pyro Flame is stupid far u cant run away when u hav a weak character

FTFY

[nSquared75]

RiouHotaru wrote...

nSquared75 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

HusarX wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Destroyer was frankly way too powerful and one of the reasons he was the most played kit in the game along with the Demolisher (they were both way above everyone else).

This is interesting. So the Destroyer was too popular, people had to much FUN by playing this kit so you decided to nerf it? Also, why was it an unexpected "ninja-nerf"? Why didn't you ask us " Hey guys what do you think about..." before applying the changes. Present somebody with a fait accompli is not cool.

The point was that according to their data, people played the Destroyer/Demolisher moreso than ANY other kit because those two kits were vastly superior to other kits of their type (Soldier/Engineer).  Bringing them down means people are liable to branch out, rather than just play the absolute best all the time.

This isn't an odd concept.

The concept isn't new but, I don't recall being asked why I played either of the two classes. Does this mean that the next new kit to gain popularity for whatever reason is automatically doomed to be nerfed if, it doesn't suck from the start? I'm seeing alot of the new Turian kits so, are they next in line for a nerfbat to the face? The logic pretty much dictates that any FOTM can be next in line. I guess it's bad to have favorites in this game.

If those new classes are so much better that they overshadow the other kits?  Then expect a nerf.

And did either the Demolisher or Devastator REALLY overshadow the other kits?  Do they overshadow the Brogaurd or, any other Krogan for that matter? No.

Modifié par nSquared75, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:20 .

[RGFrog]

nSquared75 wrote...

And did either the Demolisher or Devastator REALLY overshadow the other kits?  Do they overshadow the Brogaurd or, any other Krogan for that matter? No.

Not at all. Oh well. You guys clammored for and applaused the Inf. nerf.

Reap the harvest.

[ZerebusPrime]

For the record, I play the Destroyer not for its stats*, but because I enjoy playing big, lumbering, heavily armed and armored characters. The visual and aesthetic appeal are worth more than anything else. As near as I can tell, those things are still in place following the changes, especially since now we have access to "heavy" mods for our weapons and the Destroyer is one of the few classes that can wield them properly.


*Ok, if the Destroyer were a paper tiger to the point where it got killed too easily, I wouldn't be able to play it because of the frustration.

[ReverendBeast]

Just bought 200 shares in EA ... For the sole purpose of getting invited to the share holders meetings and hopefully get a chance to vote up or down on execs and compensation. And if at the same time I can get a little respect for the fans that want BW to layoff the balance changes and work on the other more pressing issues... Yup may not be the best return for my money but I feel much better now knowing I can always go over BW's head and talk to the real owners of the company.... The shareholders...

[Rib0flavin]

Probably the only thing I like in these changes besides the Drell and Turian buffs is the cool down increase on the prime's drones.

I hated that they made the combat drone stagger and the prime would summon it the instant you destroyed the combat drone and turret too. Now you will at least get a second or two of a break from its combat drone and turret spam.

[nSquared75]

RGFrog wrote...

nSquared75 wrote...

And did either the Demolisher or Devastator REALLY overshadow the other kits?  Do they overshadow the Brogaurd or, any other Krogan for that matter? No.

Not at all. Oh well. You guys clammored for and applaused the Inf. nerf.

Reap the harvest.

No, I did not. I don't see the point of nerfs in a cooperative game. Please don't make accusations that you cannot prove. You quoted my post so, I'm not going to assume you we're making a general statement.

[Epsilon42]

I think he was making a general statement. Apparently, in the days before I even read this thing, people were hot for an Infiltrator nerf.

[Eric Fagnan]

ntrisley wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Destroyer was frankly way too powerful and one of the reasons he was the most played kit in the game along with the Demolisher (they were both way above everyone else). Also, Devastator Mode made it very difficult to balance many weapons, especially weapons that have regenerating ammo (Collector Weapons) or get damage bonuses after a charge up time like the PPR.

Please test him in game before jumping to conclusions. He is still a very powerful kit.

He still is powerful, but did you ever think that the metrics for why they were played might not simply be because they are powerful?

Not everyone wants to play an alien character to be effective in Gold. The original humans were, by and large, fairly lackluster in Gold. The N7s let you play a human and be effective.

That is of course no longer true, as many of the original humans have been buffed to compete with their alien counterparts but the point remains that it might not simply be a power thing.

That's why I said it was only one of the reasons they were at the top. But to counter the point of them just being more fun, the fact is that as the difficulty increases the kits are used more and more. So on Bronze it's not as much of an issue, but the Demolisher and Destroyer get more and more prevalent as you rise from Silver to Gold, and Gold to Platinum. This is a clear indication that it isn't just the fun factor influencing the high rate of usage on those kits, and it's a pattern we've seen with every weapon or kit that has been too powerful in the past.

Modifié par Eric Fagnan, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:52 .

[FrankNstyle]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Destroyer was frankly way too powerful and one of the reasons he was the most played kit in the game along with the Demolisher (they were both way above everyone else). Also, Devastator Mode made it very difficult to balance many weapons, especially weapons that have regenerating ammo (Collector Weapons) or get damage bonuses after a charge up time like the PPR.

Please test him in game before jumping to conclusions. He is still a very powerful kit.

He still is powerful, but did you ever think that the metrics for why they were played might not simply be because they are powerful?

Not everyone wants to play an alien character to be effective in Gold. The original humans were, by and large, fairly lackluster in Gold. The N7s let you play a human and be effective.

That is of course no longer true, as many of the original humans have been buffed to compete with their alien counterparts but the point remains that it might not simply be a power thing.

That's why I said it was only one of the reasons they were at the top. But to counter the point of them just being more fun, the fact is that as the difficulty increases the kits are used more and more. So on Bronze it's not as much of an issue, but the Demolisher and Destroyer get more and more prevalent as you rise from Silver to Gold, and Gold to Platinum. This is a clear indication that it isn't just the fun factor influencing the high rate of usage on those kits, and it's a pattern we've seen with every weapon or kit that has been too powerful in the past.

Ummm...did you mean to give such a good example of why there was no logical reason to nerf them?

[Faps to phantoms]

Changes are well within reasonable limitations; can be changed again in the future. Keep up the good work BioWare.

[OMGsideboob]

I just used the Hurricane with my Turian plus Recoil and its now kicking like crazy... Is this a glitch or did you make the Cane kick even worse now??

[Capt. Pancake]

too much too fast this MP is all over the place. I have no idea what it's going to be tomorrow it would be nice to have some consistency. I certainly wouldn't go to a gun store and buy a gun if it's going to shoot different every time I pull the triger. A trained soldier has honed his skills and expects his tools to be consistent. Just waaay tooo may changes over the last month. Bordering on MP not being enjoyable anymore IMO

[Hulk Hsieh]

The downside of magazine size change is that it impacts some interesting combinations, like the 3 shots Wraith. Someone mentioned if the caluation can be changed to 2.7 = 3 buttlets, it won't impact PPR, but can certainy keep the interesting builds.

[Tk3997]

The Dev mode nerf really was just ill conceived all around the Demo one I don't mind frankly Demolisher was IMO a bit too good, but the Destroyer has clear downsides being slow, no real increase in durability over other soldiers (assuming you use the missile launcher), and lacking any sort of ranged offensive powers or ability to really spike damage in a punch.

The reductions have pretty much rendered the ammo bonus worthless plain and simple. It was never useful on automatics frankly as it was extremely rare you'd even fire the entire mag. The only really reason to use it was to gain a few extra shots on some of the lower capacity weapons thus allowing interesting combo other classes couldn't do effectively... pretty much all of these are now gone. Then for no discernible reason you decide to nerf the rate of fire bonus as well even though other classes have larger ones (with cool downs, but so small that they can functionally maintain a higher rate without much effort)

The only "problem" with the Destroyer class was that you made all the other solider classes so damn bad. The solider should really be about weapon use with powers based around being able to carry big honking guns and still be effective. The Destroyer (and Demo) were pretty much the ONLY one that did this it's powers being useful while carrying allot of weight while most of the others ended up being just crappier versions of other "spell casting" classes who couldn't even use heavy weapons cause they needed short cooldowns to be even vaguely useful by spamming powers.

Then we combine this with your craptastic store system that gives out awesome very rares JUST enough to have some, but not enough to make them usable. So guys that have played awhile will have a bunch of very rare weapons they'd like to use, but that are completely unsuable on 90% of classes cause they're all low level and weigh ten tons. So if they want to use these very rares in some games despite the weight issues what to do? Well play the only two classes in the game that can really not care about weapon weight at all and be effective the Demo and the Destroyer.

This frankly even dumber in the face of the JUST LAST WEEK change that buffed every single tech using caster in the game. All the tech classes are now probably AT LEAST twice as effective as they were, which was good it was WAY overdue and helped break the stangle hold of biotics at higher levels. Indeed with tech powers buffed to roughly match biotics and the Demo and Destroyer for weapons user we ALMOST had a rough pairty where Guns/Tech/Biotic were each viable if you used the right classes...

Couldn't have THAT though so had to hit the weapons classes with a nerf bat, get those tools that want to be able to use big guns instead of spells back in the ghetto where they belong. When you have 50 damn classes I'm sorry, but some will be perfered over others, and when out of that entire swarm of them only TWO can really do a certain style of  (heavy weight weapons) they're going to get used dispropporirately; because you know they DON'T SUCK .

Modifié par Tk3997, 26 octobre 2012 - 05:06 .

[GoD_D3VIL]

Destroyer and Demolisher nerfs SUCK. WTF u guys doing?

[XTR3M3]

all this nerfing crap reminds me of the political correct crap where they try and make everyone and everything very close to equal. We are not equal and all have different likes. Geez, anything we think is cool gets nerfed.

I will say it again, FIX THE CRAP wrong with the game before worrying about inconsequential stuff to you DEVs like the way my Destroyer was. How about fix the shadow strike, vault animation so it actually works all the time, the screen jumping back and forth where you have to reset it with a heavy melee, ect. ect. You DEVs are fixing things that aren't broke and ignoring things that are.

[ka243]

Sadface about the destroyer and demolisher nerfs

[Calamity]

ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame wrote...

Demolisher nerf makes no sense. Logic fallows:

BioWare creates a class based on casting grenadesPlayers use the class as a grenade casterBioWare then nerfs the rate the grenades can be obtained.

Just shows that BioWare contradicts itself with the balance changes sometimes. Might as well make every caster class have to use something to regenerate biotic powers and give them a count of times they can use the biotics until they have to go consume more of the item to regain them. Then make this substance extreamly limited a well.

Then all tech powers would need the players to share a very limited supply of batteries to be able to use them more.

Combat powers would need to have something to replenish those as well to use them after you run out of their count as well.

Then to keep running and meleeing we need to consume energy drinks or we will start to walk and then walk slower until we're crawling if we don't get an energy drink.

Thank you! Said much better than I could.

[capitao_ratao29]

why? destroyer my favorite character =/

[Felis Menari]

Tk3997 wrote...

The Dev mode nerf really was just ill conceived all around the Demo one I don't mind frankly Demolisher was IMO a bit too good, but the Destroyer has clear downsides being slow, no real increase in durability over other soldiers (assuming you use the missile launcher), and lacking any sort of ranged offensive powers or ability to really spike damage in a punch.

The reductions have pretty much rendered the ammo bonus worthless plain and simple. It was never useful on automatics frankly as it was extremely rare you'd even fire the entire mag. The only really reason to use it was to gain a few extra shots on some of the lower capacity weapons thus allowing interesting combo other classes couldn't do effectively... pretty much all of these are now gone. Then for no discernible reason you decide to nerf the rate of fire bonus as well even though other classes have larger ones (with cool downs, but so small that they can functionally maintain a higher rate without much effort)

snip...

The bolded statement is filled with so much wrong I don't know where to start.

Modifié par Felis Menari, 26 octobre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Empi3_ALK]

i like all the changes. don't care if it's a buff or a nerf as long as it makes me reconsider my choices.
i like it dynamic

Modifié par Empi3_ALK, 26 octobre 2012 - 10:02 .

[D4RK V3NOM]

nSquared75 wrote...

@Chi_Mangetsu

I don't recall ever embarking on the Devastator's buffs.I suppose I could have been more specific about the mag size decrease. I personally like the HML and went to it after I got tired of the Typhoon/Grenade build I had. I had finally unlocked the PPR and, felt the HML would have better synergy.

The PPR has been controversial since the beginning. Some say it is quite useless while others love it. The Devastator made it shine. It wasn't the best damage dealer but, it worked well if spec'd right. It was a fun build for me. With other weapons the mag size limit won't make much a difference. The Harrier will still wreck mostly everything as it always has, etc. However, the Dev/PPR build will not be as rewarding as it was. Like I said prior, mine is at level 1.

I didn't always top the list with it nor, did I feel the need to do so, I have other builds that I am much more consistent with. I could find myself trying to fight for a 3rd place spot if there were Vanguards or any of the nade toting Sentinels.Obviously, many on this forum feel that the nerfs were unnecessary and hurtful to the kits. I say that the Devastator's nerf paled in comparison to the Demolisher but, that wasn't the point.

The point is that players are being forced to play a different way or change their builds entirely. We all like new elements and challenges but, this isn't the case. They already did that with new enemies and hazard versions of maps. This was a forced change by taking something away that players have been using, relying on and, have been accustomed to since the characters were added to the roster. Nobody likes things to be taken from them. Why build something just to tear it down shortly afterwards? Just sayin.

Well spoken... Why build something just to tear it down shortly afterwards?

[Cornughon]

Damn all this whining never seems to end...