175 réponses à ce sujet

[upinya slayin]

Renku wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...
  If everyone is using something, and it turns out the reason is just because it's fun, not because it's too much better then a lot of other kits, we'll leave it the way it is.

A player somewhere in the world plays one kit more than others. How can you tell that reason behind the choice is a) because the kit is OP or the kit is fun? Space Magic?

they test it out themselves. I assume most of the testers are average players and not elite or bad players which make sthem the perfect test subject. and elite player with a pheaston will out to a bad player with a harrier. was playing one last night and watched a demolisher with a harrier 3 and all amps on (grenade cap 4, AR amp 3, power amp 3, and inc 3) still score lats while i used an infiltrator and BW with just a shotgun gear and warp rounds 3 and came in 1st.

The player is the biggets factor in balance. no matter what they do some players will suck and some will dominate and there is no way to adjust for that

[Farosyrn]

If anything, quit wasting poor Chris's time and nerves, so he can concentrate on creating further content. : )

[dysturbed0ne]

IMO the OP is correct when he states the "balance" stems more from ease of credits, than anything else. BW needs the transactions to keep the DLC free, that doesn't take a genius to figure out. Assuming BW wants to curb reliable credit earning isn't too far fetched. If they really thought we were all here just for the fun and enjoyment, we would be able to just buy the weapons we want.

*clip* there was more, but it is just a waste of time.

[CardboredSquare]

Chris Schanche wrote...

I think the Hawk missle launcher shield thing is the most "weird" balance change it's very painful it's just too big

Snip!  This one is a buff, not a nerf.  The changes from 25% at 40% at Evolve 1 means previously, when you purchased evolve 1, the shield penalty was 25% normal then base.  Now it means evolve 1 makes the penalty 40% lower then base.  Taking this evolution means that the Hawk is even less harmful to your shields then it was before.

Also thanks Volkai7, I had cheesecake at lunch though, I don't think I should have a chocolate bar right now!

Can you explain that to me like I'm eight years old?

[Kristen Schanche]

This thread has migrated a bit away from the original topic anyway. Try to keep it on the original subject, which is why we perform balance changes so frequently. I think the original poster actually made a very good point in that it's hard to feel like the play environment has stabilized. But that said for now we're going to continue our weekly changes.

Any discussion about specific changes should probably stick to one of the threads that has already been created for them. Thanks for the topic T04stm4n, I think it's a good one and worth discussing, even if we aren't going to change it at this time.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Allthough I think the balancing team makes a lot of strange deciscions overall I like the efforts they are making and it helps keep the game interesting. Tbf for the few things they've ruined they've improved and made a lot more guns/characters/powers viable or great.

[upinya slayin]

Chris Schanche wrote...

This thread has migrated a bit away from the original topic anyway. Try to keep it on the original subject, which is why we perform balance changes so frequently. I think the original poster actually made a very good point in that it's hard to feel like the play environment has stabilized. But that said for now we're going to continue our weekly changes.

Any discussion about specific changes should probably stick to one of the threads that has already been created for them. Thanks for the topic T04stm4n, I think it's a good one and worth discussing, even if we aren't going to change it at this time.

but sandwhiches are important business:wub:

lol back on topic if one change ruins the game for you then you have been playing it wrong.

the funny thing though is if you look at it , all we have is skill
enemies have greater numbers, more health, a OHK ability, better weapons, protective bubbbles, etc
all we have is our smarts and skill to combat it

[kil_edward93]

1/10 Would not bang.

[Lacboi86]

If more games in the future will be balanced weekly like this then I might just put the controller down and throw away my game system. Seriously this game goes up and down like my current relationship with my girlfriend. I love ME3 but sometimes we gotta let go.

[Hiero Glyph]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Part of the reason we continue the balance changes is because we keep releasing new content, some of which throws that balance off. Things that may have been balanced in the previous multiplayer climate may no longer be in the current one. I suspect that sometime after we stop releasing new multiplayer content, the balance changes will probably slow and then stop, but we've got a bit yet even just considering the weeks of kits ahead.

Wouldn't balancing the new content against the existing content prior to release be a better strategy?  If any balance adjustments are needed you can always alter the new content after release.  The way you are balancing things now is counter-productive as all of the existing content needs to be tweaked as opposed to only the new content.

[najzere]

Imagine if all the time this team put into weekly balance changes had been devoted to investigating and fixing bugs. Maybe the latest patch wouldn't have taken months to drop.

[T04stm4n]

Chris Schanche wrote...

This thread has migrated a bit away from the original topic anyway. Try to keep it on the original subject, which is why we perform balance changes so frequently. I think the original poster actually made a very good point in that it's hard to feel like the play environment has stabilized. But that said for now we're going to continue our weekly changes.

Any discussion about specific changes should probably stick to one of the threads that has already been created for them. Thanks for the topic T04stm4n, I think it's a good one and worth discussing, even if we aren't going to change it at this time.

Thanks for participating!  I didn't expect so much activity to be honest.  Maybe my "hook" of a title helped but I think the real reason was the BIOWARE label haha

[Kyerea]

upinya slayin wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

This thread has migrated a bit away from the original topic anyway. Try to keep it on the original subject, which is why we perform balance changes so frequently. I think the original poster actually made a very good point in that it's hard to feel like the play environment has stabilized. But that said for now we're going to continue our weekly changes.

Any discussion about specific changes should probably stick to one of the threads that has already been created for them. Thanks for the topic T04stm4n, I think it's a good one and worth discussing, even if we aren't going to change it at this time.

but sandwhiches are important business:wub:

lol back on topic if one change ruins the game for you then you have been playing it wrong.

the funny thing though is if you look at it , all we have is skill
enemies have greater numbers, more health, a OHK ability, better weapons, protective bubbbles, etc
all we have is our smarts and skill to combat it

Upinya, the only difference between us and them, is that we can consume copious amounts of booze before and during deployment.

[Eriseley]

Chris Schanche wrote...

I think the original poster actually made a very good point in that it's hard to feel like the play environment has stabilized. But that said for now we're going to continue our weekly changes.

On the other hand, change makes the game interesting. I would be so bored if we were still all playing Claymore Infiltrators or else spamming Reave and Nova. Which are both still potent. A lot of the shifting ground has been from new content and buffs, which indicates that power creep would be more of a concern, not nerfs. Removal of boss headshots did seem to hammer Sniper Rifles though, I will admit.

[Kristen Schanche]

Hiero Glyph wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Part of the reason we continue the balance changes is because we keep releasing new content, some of which throws that balance off. Things that may have been balanced in the previous multiplayer climate may no longer be in the current one. I suspect that sometime after we stop releasing new multiplayer content, the balance changes will probably slow and then stop, but we've got a bit yet even just considering the weeks of kits ahead.

Wouldn't balancing the new content against the existing content prior to release be a better strategy?  If any balance adjustments are needed you can always alter the new content after release.  The way you are balancing things now is counter-productive as all of the existing content needs to be tweaked as opposed to only the new content.

We do that of course, but we're a small team and on a time limit.  We make a massive number of balance changes internally to all this new content, and some of our balance changes to non-Retaliation content before Retaliation came out were in anticipation of its existance.  But as I mentioned earlier in this thread, there will always be things we don't catch.  We're only human, and there are a lot of changes that 10 or so people wont see that will really blow up in visiblity when the new content goes out to our sizeable playerbase.

[Eckswhyzed]

najzere wrote...

Imagine if all the time this team put into weekly balance changes had been devoted to investigating and fixing bugs. Maybe the latest patch wouldn't have taken months to drop.

Imagine if design and programming were two separate teams?

Imagine if bugifxing wasn't just a matter of throwing more people at a problem?

....oh wait.

Back on topic: As upinya slayin said: If you relied so much upon one class/power for your enjoyment, maybe you need to reconsider your relationship with multiplayer. Maybe you might complain about 'ups and down' if you played sniper infils, then the Krysae GI, then Reegar Kroguards, then Piranha GIs, then only the N7 Destroyer.

The more classes you play, the less likely you are to be hurt by any nerfs. Or you can be like me, and only play the GI and enjoy that playstyle so much that no nerf can ever take that away from you.

[Heggy]

What a lot of people forget is that statistically, if you have a few hundred thousand people playing a game, chances are, they are going to find bugs, exploits and optimal methods of doing something that it would take months or years for a small dev team doing testing to find.

Balance changes are necessary. I welcome them, They spice up the game a little each week.

[Kristen Schanche]

najzere wrote...

Imagine if all the time this team put into weekly balance changes had been devoted to investigating and fixing bugs. Maybe the latest patch wouldn't have taken months to drop.

Those two things have very little impact on each other.  Please don't mistake our efforts to keeping the balance of the game in check and fresh with ignorance or lack of dedication to the existing bugs.  The process for getting the two different types of fixes live and out to the player is very different.  We would love to have bug fixes out at the same rate as balance fixes, but that isn't a realistic situation right now and is largly outside of our control.

[nicethugbert]

The specific changes and the motive is what bothers me more than the frequency. The game is loaded with cheapness which seems to be sacrosanct. It took forever for Drell to get much needed attention and what they did get was a day late, dollar short. This game needs a lot of work and the balance changes thus far have been relatively minimal.

[Kristen Schanche]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

najzere wrote...

Imagine if all the time this team put into weekly balance changes had been devoted to investigating and fixing bugs. Maybe the latest patch wouldn't have taken months to drop.

Imagine if design and programming were two separate teams?

Imagine if bugifxing wasn't just a matter of throwing more people at a problem?

....oh wait.

Back on topic: As upinya slayin said: If you relied so much upon one class/power for your enjoyment, maybe you need to reconsider your relationship with multiplayer. Maybe you might complain about 'ups and down' if you played sniper infils, then the Krysae GI, then Reegar Kroguards, then Piranha GIs, then only the N7 Destroyer.

The more classes you play, the less likely you are to be hurt by any nerfs. Or you can be like me, and only play the GI and enjoy that playstyle so much that no nerf can ever take that away from you.

Okay guys, I have to drop out of the thread to go let the rest of the balance team know that Eckswhyzed is having too much fun with the Geth Infiltrator.

[TurianPimp]

Is OP actually blaming people for fixing our game?
I support balance changes.

Balance in all things!

[WiqidBritt]

they aren't looking to 'perfectly balance' this game, the weekly balance changes are there to give hardcore players (the ones on this forum) something to look for every week.
Also, be glad that BW surface as many of the mechanics as they do for us here. There has been zero response from people at Gearbox about what makes their new category of weapons (searaph) worth even attempting to get. BW is a completely open book in comparison.

[Dasher1010]

Mortal Kombat also had weekly balance changes.

[Kristen Schanche]

nicethugbert wrote...

The specific changes and the motive is what bothers me more than the frequency. The game is loaded with cheapness which seems to be sacrosanct. It took forever for Drell to get much needed attention and what they did get was a day late, dollar short. This game needs a lot of work and the balance changes thus far have been relatively minimal.

I agree with this, but there are a few cases where we feel that we may have gone too far all at once.  The original Falcon change comes to mind, even if we're happy with the 'caster gun' role it has settled into now.  We've burned ourselves and our fans a few times with changes that were too big all at once and our goal is to be more iterative now.  In cases where a change doesn't go far enough, we'll keep reevaluating and tweaking till it gets to the right place.

Lets see how those Drell changes shake out over the next few weeks first.  We wanted to change them before but some of their bonuses were directly tied to another races, we needed to unhook that with the patch before we were finally able to give them these buffs we've been wanting to.

[Drayce333]

The only reason the devs are trying to be such a open book with multiplayer is because its the only way they can save face after the series destroying ending, DA2 disaster and the TORtanic. They know they have screwed up to much at this point and need better PR to attempt to redeem themselves.

Don't fall for it people, and make sure never to preorder another bioware game or buy them at release if you can't return for a full refund. As you can see they still love to screw over the players every now and then.

Modifié par Drayce333, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:40 .