175 réponses à ce sujet

[Hiero Glyph]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Hiero Glyph wrote...

Go play the demo; it was more balanced than the current version of multiplayer.

Maybe it was. But slightly more imbalance is the price you pay for the large array of content.

That's the point though, with a proper foundation all new content should be equally balanced or able to be appropriately balanced against that foundation.  While I understand that we have many more options available, the new content should never cause existing content to become unbalanced, ever.  If it does then the new content is the problem and should be adjusted.  Adjusting the foundation rarely makes the structure more stable or balanced, as in this case.  Bioware certainly has made this game entirely new, and with it they have to rebalance everything (or close to it).

[Madeline Lightning]

too bad they aren't experienced enough to do it right. one of them telling me proves nothing either. Bad balancing is bad. If it is indeed based on popularity of a class that's wrong and amateur. I don't play aliens because I dislike them in this game, it's not because the Destroyer or whatever other Human class I play has better powers. I played the Destroyer because I liked his look and it was a bonus he had decent balanced (not overpowered) powers. No nerf was needed. Like I said if ME4 has multi, hopefully an experienced team I'm familar with is working on it.... a different one than now.

Too bad they didn't have time to make character customization we can make all humans look how we want visually (clothes/armor, helmets, gloves, boots etc like some of my favorite games). At least I can control what races are NOT allowed in my game or not when I host.

Modifié par Madeline Lightning, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:45 .

[jrgull13]

Hah, I personally love the balance changes. If they nerf something it gives me a chance to go and screw around with it and figure out how to make it better on my own. I honestly wish that other PvE games I play would've spent this much time tweaking their game to make it perfect. If you don't like it quit playing...

[Sir_Alan_]

Agreed to some extent with OP...

It's good that Bioware are still paying attention to the game (quite a while past release now) and making changes BUT there is such a thing as too much tinkering!

The game is by no means perfect and while some things should be changed for the sake of everyones benefit, there's no real need for constant nerfing-buffing-nerfing-changing game mechanic-removing game mechanic etc etc

Clearly there were some fundamental flaws in the original MP release and most (if not all) weapons and classes should've gone through waaaaaaaaay more extensive testing BEFORE being released to the public.

Yes, some things can only be found out once thousands of people start bashing odd button combos but for things like class skills and powers, there's no excuse to give initially and then once people are all comfortable with it, snatch it away again. This is not cool.

I don't know when work will start on ME4 but it's not a bad idea to start making notes now. For the love of God take into account everything you felt you had to mess around with in ME3s mp. As for the campaign, it would be nice if you re-created a better ending for ME3 and add it as a prologue to the 4th game (sorry but i simply can't get over it), other than that please don't smoke crack before writing the ending for ME4 or ME6 as the case will probably be.

[DJ Airsurfer]

So what you're suggesting is an release schedule which is like that of CoD games?

Meaning you'd rather have one piece of **** a year, than something good every few years.

I'd like to know what you're smoking..

[IronRush]

Cyonan wrote...

It's one of the things of game development. No matter what you do somebody is going to be pissed off at you.

Don't change anything? People get mad that their favourite character is terrible
Only ever buff things? People get mad that the game is getting "too easy"
Try to balance things with buffs and nerfs? People get mad that you "nerfed in a co-op game"

One of the guys over on the WoW forums has a list of everything that's "ruined WoW forever!" according to the forums. I think he's up to about 200 items on that list now, with plenty of things that contradict each other. People will never be happy.

Also it's high end competitive PvP(LoL, SC2, etc.) that needs the tight balancing, not MMOs.

This.
Bioware is doing unbelievable work with this game.

[Madeline Lightning]

IronRush wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

It's one of the things of game development. No matter what you do somebody is going to be pissed off at you.

Don't change anything? People get mad that their favourite character is terrible
Only ever buff things? People get mad that the game is getting "too easy"
Try to balance things with buffs and nerfs? People get mad that you "nerfed in a co-op game"

One of the guys over on the WoW forums has a list of everything that's "ruined WoW forever!" according to the forums. I think he's up to about 200 items on that list now, with plenty of things that contradict each other. People will never be happy.

Also it's high end competitive PvP(LoL, SC2, etc.) that needs the tight balancing, not MMOs.

This.
Bioware is doing unbelievable work with this game.

yeah but unbelievable in a negative way, not a positive way. Tweaking the ini file numbers - great job. Forgot to fix that shadow SS on the atlas.  Nerf the destroyer and demonlisher.

[DSxCallOfBooty-]

Constant Motion wrote...

If you're seriously arguing this point, you probably don't really understand what balance is.

[Lord Rosario]

Madeline Lightning wrote...

IronRush wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

It's one of the things of game development. No matter what you do somebody is going to be pissed off at you.

Don't change anything? People get mad that their favourite character is terrible
Only ever buff things? People get mad that the game is getting "too easy"
Try to balance things with buffs and nerfs? People get mad that you "nerfed in a co-op game"

One of the guys over on the WoW forums has a list of everything that's "ruined WoW forever!" according to the forums. I think he's up to about 200 items on that list now, with plenty of things that contradict each other. People will never be happy.

Also it's high end competitive PvP(LoL, SC2, etc.) that needs the tight balancing, not MMOs.

This.
Bioware is doing unbelievable work with this game.

yeah but unbelievable in a negative way, not a positive way. Tweaking the ini file numbers - great job. Forgot to fix that shadow SS on the atlas.  Nerf the destroyer and demonlisher.

A few issues are always going to crop up, no matter what the game. I'm sure someone could tell you how other MP games have FAR more issures than this one and how little their companies do about it.

[Madeline Lightning]

I know more about the unreal engine than you do about anything in your life and I know how easy it is to tweak. If you play on the xbox then the conversation would be dead immediately too. Why don't you come over to epic games site and discuss it there.

Modifié par Madeline Lightning, 25 octobre 2012 - 12:37 .

[UKillMeLongTime]

Kinda agree I mean every week.....

Too much tweaking a horde gAme

[Onpoint17]

The balance changes are too much and too often. IMO it really destroys the enjoyabilty of the game. I can't fathom why the developers think that nerfing our favorite characters, making them less powerful and less effective is...fun. It's anything but fun. Its frustrating, its infuriating and it makes me appreciate the game less and less.

[KiraTsukasa]

I don't know what everyone's problem is. There has not been a balance change yet that has made me not play a class or character. Sure, there have been some that have made me relook at how I built the character, but I've never outright dropped playing something just because it was made a little different.

[D.Shepard]

Chris Schanche wrote...

The main thing I was trying to make clear now is that too many people using it is /not/ the reason we balance it.  If everyone is using something, and it turns out the reason is just because it's fun, not because it's too much better then a lot of other kits, we'll leave it the way it is.

That's a good point.
Anyway how do you know people play it because it's too much better then other kits?
What parameter do you use to discern the "using it because it's fun" from "using it because it's extremely powerful"?

I suppose via playtest but I'm sure you playtest the kits before release, so why looking at the community reaction after release itself?
In other words what the difference between being reasonable powerful, and thus fun to play, and overpowered to the point of being game breaking?

Please consider I'm not making polemics with you, Chris or BW.
Since it's one of the few times I have to chance to reply to a person from BW staff and I just wanted to know the above things for the sake of my own curiosity.

Thank you.

[Cornughon]

All this complaining because of Devestator Mode nerf?

Jeez...

[KiraTsukasa]

D.Shepard wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

The main thing I was trying to make clear now is that too many people using it is /not/ the reason we balance it.  If everyone is using something, and it turns out the reason is just because it's fun, not because it's too much better then a lot of other kits, we'll leave it the way it is.

That's a good point.
Anyway how do you know people play it because it's too much better then other kits?
What parameter do you use to discern the "using it because it's fun" from "using it because it's extremely powerful"?

I suppose via playtest but I'm sure you playtest the kits before release, so why looking at the community reaction after release itself?
In other words what the difference between being reasonable powerful, and thus fun to play, and overpowered to the point of being game breaking?

Please consider I'm not making polemics with you, Chris or BW.
Since it's one of the few times I have to chance to reply to a person from BW staff and I just wanted to know the above things for the sake of my own curiosity.

Thank you.

When they created the game, they didn't have the reactions to how things would play out. For example, tactical cloak. At release, all they had to go on was that "it works" but they couldn't tell that it would work TOO well to the point that everyone played infiltrators over everything else the majority of the time (I forget the exact numbers but I think infiltrator was chose 66% of the time). When they see something like that, then they start comparing numbers between classes, and they would see that infiltrators had a HUGE potential with tactical cloak damage boosts and a long duration. Thus they balanced it so that we couldn't have our fingers in both pies at the same time along with not having insane damage potential over any other class.

[N7Kopper]

Cornughon wrote...

All this complaining because of Devestator Mode nerf?

Jeez...

It wasn't even a Destroyer nerf - the Hawk Missile Launcher was actually buffed significantly, and Devastator Mode was mainly nerfed so that it wasn't such a massive factor in weapon balance.

As for the Demolisher... she stacked too well with her identikit sisters.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:48 .

[Cornughon]

N7Kopper wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

All this complaining because of Devestator Mode nerf?

Jeez...

It wasn't even a Destroyer nerf - the Hawk Missile Launcher was actually buffed significantly, and Devastator Mode was mainly nerfed so that it wasn't such a massive factor in weapon balance.

As for the Demolisher... she stacked too well with her identikit sisters.

Yes I know that, I perfectly understand the reasoning behind the nerfs, and completely agree with them, that's why I don't understand all this whining, it was the same with the Krysae and Tactical Cloak nerfs...

Well on the other hand, they NOW can buff the Typhoon again

[dysturbed0ne]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

When they created the game, they didn't have the reactions to how things would play out. For example, tactical cloak. At release, all they had to go on was that "it works" but they couldn't tell that it would work TOO well to the point that everyone played infiltrators over everything else the majority of the time (I forget the exact numbers but I think infiltrator was chose 66% of the time). When they see something like that, then they start comparing numbers between classes, and they would see that infiltrators had a HUGE potential with tactical cloak damage boosts and a long duration. Thus they balanced it so that we couldn't have our fingers in both pies at the same time along with not having insane damage potential over any other class.

It was 33%.

[N7Kopper]

Cornughon wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

All this complaining because of Devestator Mode nerf?

Jeez...

It wasn't even a Destroyer nerf - the Hawk Missile Launcher was actually buffed significantly, and Devastator Mode was mainly nerfed so that it wasn't such a massive factor in weapon balance.

As for the Demolisher... she stacked too well with her identikit sisters.

Yes I know that, I perfectly understand the reasoning behind the nerfs, and completely agree with them, that's why I don't understand all this whining, it was the same with the Krysae and Tactical Cloak nerfs...

Well on the other hand, they NOW can buff the Typhoon again

I wasn't correcting you, I was backing you up.

[KiraTsukasa]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

When they created the game, they didn't have the reactions to how things would play out. For example, tactical cloak. At release, all they had to go on was that "it works" but they couldn't tell that it would work TOO well to the point that everyone played infiltrators over everything else the majority of the time (I forget the exact numbers but I think infiltrator was chose 66% of the time). When they see something like that, then they start comparing numbers between classes, and they would see that infiltrators had a HUGE potential with tactical cloak damage boosts and a long duration. Thus they balanced it so that we couldn't have our fingers in both pies at the same time along with not having insane damage potential over any other class.

It was 33%.

Well, there you go. Had all classes been played equally, it would have been around 16% so double what it should have been.

[Leonia]

I remember when we didn't have the Destroyer or Demolisher..ya'll can keep complaining, I'm going to keep enjoying the game.

[N7Kopper]

leonia42 wrote...

I remember when we didn't have the Destroyer or Demolisher..ya'll can keep complaining, I'm going to keep enjoying the game.

+1

[jackkel dragon]

Go make ME4 and quit balancing this game

Someone has never heard of a Post-Release Content team. It tends to not be the entire company when your company has multiple locations.

Just release your DLC as scheduled

Fun fact: DLC released months after a game's release? Tends not to have been made before ship. It needs to actually be made, too.

Modifié par jackkel dragon, 25 octobre 2012 - 05:11 .

[LeandroBraz]

Same old arguments, and like every time, wont cut it..