205 réponses à ce sujet

[TheButterflyEffect]

Pro mages, because clearly, the idea of just locking them has never worked very well, and has now failed spectacularly.

[Vicious]

Go read Asunder.

Majority of Templars are basically Cerberus now.

Modifié par Vicious, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:03 .

[Dave of Canada]

Pro-Templar, mages are too dangerous to be left unchecked and I have little interest in the "BUT THEIR INNOCENT!!!11" argument.

Vicious wrote...

Go read Asunder.

Majority of Templars are basically Cerberus now.

I don't get it, how are the majority of the Templar incompetently written like a comic book villain?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Fredward]

I'm a raging pro-mage. Having your rights taken away for what you were born with? Come on. I wonder what it looks like in Tevinter if the Chantry is right? Do Magisters just randomly turn into abominations? I'm sure the rate of possession is much higher in Tevinter but if you put everyone who has the chance of getting possessed in a tower and tell them they will be killed if it's even suspected that their susceptible to possession that's bound to happen.

If you think about it possession isn't in the mage's best interest either so in theory you could let good ol' self preservation take its natural course. And mages watching over mages might work pretty well too, like I suppose it works in Tevinter. A magister with lots of little wannabe magisters. And the wannabe's killing each other off would make for a naturally high attrition rate while at the same time culling those likely to be possessed! In theory. See, a totally free self-regulating system.

Anywhoozle I object to the Circle's existence on moral grounds basically. Mages are kept nicely penned while making oodles of cash for the Chantry and a handy trump card in case of invasions while at the same time providing justification for the Chantry to employ as many Templars as they want and thereby creating a army beholden to no country. And why? Because Magisters were rilly, rilly mean to some people hundreds of years ago. What is it with religions and justifying their atrocious acts with some original sin dating back to whenever that NO ONE currently living had ANY part in. Ugh. The Chantry needs to be given a bloody mouth on principle. And if I have my way the Templars will be a bad memory and every Chantry in Thedas will be a smoking hole in the ground before the mages are done. And there will be a epic name for it too. Like The Day of Crushed Templar Dreams or something epic sounding like that. xp

So yes. In my playthrough there will be blood, there will be fire, and the Chantry will RUE THE DAY they thought it was a good idea to lock people up who can shoot lightning at fools.

[lil yonce]

Pro-Justinia. Don't like either the Templars or the Mages. Both factions are lead by extremists.

[The Hierophant]

The main issue with the current circle system is about who makes the rules, as the Tevinter a mage dominated society uses a circle system with templers before the latter split with the chantry.

[Medhia Nox]

I'm Pro-Exiled Empress of Orlais.

We need to start putting Thedas right - and letting special clubs rule is exactly what shouldn't be done - we need secular rich people to rule properly because they're the only types concerned with protecting their assets which are the people and the nation... not dying for fool ideals.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Pro-normal people. Who are probably dying in the hundreds to thousands thanks to this stupid war.

"Who do you truly serve?"
"The realm, my lord. Someone must."

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:47 .

[mopotter]

I'll have to wait and see, but probably pro mage. I only have one character that sided with the templars in DA2 but if DA3 has a really good story for both sides then I'll happily take turns siding with one and then the other.

[LobselVith8]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Magic stagnates the world.

If the nations of Thedas didn't cripple themselves with relying on mages - they would have likely made vast technological advances instead o fusing swords and armor like primitives.

Yes we can see just how safe a technological world is simply by reading a newspaper... 

Reliance on magic isn't any worse than a reliance on technology. Magic doesn't stagnate a worlds development. Intolerance and fear do.

There is a great deal of fear and intolerance towards mages in Andrastian society.

[Wittand25]

I am neither.
It is rather clear that mages need supervision by outsiders, since otherwise you end up with lots of bloodmages and abdominations. Even someone like Merrill turned to a demon because she needed power to fullfill her ambitions, and considering that she is naive bordering to simple, imagine how the average mage would think about the access to more power. So an organisation like the templar order is needed.
On the other hand Templars also need supervision. Otherwise the power they have leads to abuse of the mages.
This supervision cannot come from the order themself since a Templar commander is Templar first and commander only second. Thinking that they could leash the Templars simply by taking control of the Lyrium trade was rather shortsighted by the Chantry. Which combiened with the fact that the last Devine held the position long after she was in any way capeable to fullfill her duties resulted in the dire situation Thedas is faceing now.

[Scott Sion]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Magic stagnates the world.

If the nations of Thedas didn't cripple themselves with relying on mages - they would have likely made vast technological advances instead o fusing swords and armor like primitives.

Yes we can see just how safe a technological world is simply by reading a newspaper... 

Reliance on magic isn't any worse than a reliance on technology. Magic doesn't stagnate a worlds development. Intolerance and fear do.

There is a great deal of fear and intolerance towards mages in Andrastian society.

Magic > Technology

[LobselVith8]

Wittand25 wrote...

I am neither.
It is rather clear that mages need supervision by outsiders, since otherwise you end up with lots of bloodmages and abdominations.

Blood magic is the only magic templars can't nullify with their abilities, so it makes sense mages fighting for their freedom use blood magic. Some Grey Wardens use blood magic as well.

Wittand25 wrote...

Even someone like Merrill turned to a demon because she needed power to fullfill her ambitions, and considering that she is naive bordering to simple, imagine how the average mage would think about the access to more power.

Merrill isn't naive or simple; she demonstrates her intellect throughout the narrative. Having culture shock as a Dalish in human society is expected. She learns blood magic from Audacity (who was sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem), but she worked on building an Eluvian based on extrapolating information from the shard and studying the lore. She doesn't abuse her abilities, and proficiently uses magic for several years in Kirkwall.

[Nashimura]

Can i be neutral? Good and bad on both sides and a compromise would be best.

[Cimeas]

I play a mage, so ingame I can't really go against mages, but really they should all be killed.

I mean think of all the trouble they have caused, they simply wield too much power. As a mage you can get to the point where you are almost invincible, whereas as a mortal, even if you are very powerful and command great armies, you can be killed with a single rope.

Thedas has been stuck in fantasy land for however many years because of magic, and to progress magic simply has to disappear as the 'easy option' to curing wounds/travel/war etc...

[Wittand25]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Blood magic is the only magic templars can't nullify with their abilities, so it makes sense mages fighting for their freedom use blood magic. Some Grey Wardens use blood magic as well.

Merrill isn't naive or simple; she demonstrates her intellect throughout the narrative. Having culture shock as a Dalish in human society is expected. She learns blood magic from Audacity (who was sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem), but she worked on building an Eluvian based on extrapolating information from the shard and studying the lore. She doesn't abuse her abilities, and proficiently uses magic for several years in Kirkwall.

Several mages turn to blood magic because it is a great source of power and the only way to cast potent spells without the use of Lyrium. Claiming that it is only practised as a form of self defense is rather silly, every mage who is looking for power will consider using it. Merrill and several others who were not under the reign of the Templars did after all. Merrill even admits that she turned to blood magic because otherwise she would not be capeable to cast the magic needed to cleanse the mirror.

And how is Merrill not naive ? She is not even capeable to understand why her own clan is against her making pacts with demons and practising bloodmagic. She is not stupid, quite the opposite really, but she definatly has problems understanding the consequences of her own actions.

Modifié par Wittand25, 27 octobre 2012 - 12:29 .

[overburning]

I started off as pro-mage, but the more time I played the more pro-templar I became. The mages in DA2 never really give me a reason to support them.

[LobselVith8]

Wittand25 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill isn't naive or simple; she demonstrates her intellect throughout the narrative. Having culture shock as a Dalish in human society is expected. She learns blood magic from Audacity (who was sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem), but she worked on building an Eluvian based on extrapolating information from the shard and studying the lore. She doesn't abuse her abilities, and proficiently uses magic for several years in Kirkwall.

Several mages turn to blood magic because it is a great source of power and the only way to cast potent spells without the use of Lyrium. Claiming that it is only practised as a form of self defense is rather silly, every mage who is looking for power will consider using it. Merrill and several others who were not under the reign of the Templars did after all. Merrill even admits that she turned to blood magic because otherwise she would not be capeable to cast the magic needed to cleanse the mirror.

I never claimed it was only used as self-defense; I addressed that some mages use it for those purposes because not all blood mages are the same. And Merrill lacked the lyrium needed to cleanse the shard with ordinary magic because the Chantry has a monopoly on the lyrium trade.

Wittand25 wrote...

And how is Merrill not naive ? She is not even capeable to understand why her own clan is against her making pacts with demons and practising bloodmagic. She is not stupid, quite the opposite really, but she definatly has problems understanding the consequences of her own actions.

The clan hates her because Marethari poisoned them against her in an attempt to coerce Merrill back into the fold. The Keeper admits she told the clan to be wary about her former First when Merrill confronts her about Pol, and then tries to use that to guilt her into coming back to the fold as her First.

Also, Merrill didn't make a pact with Audacity; it is sundered from the Fade, and only capable of communication while trapped in the totem. She knows the dangers spirits pose. Merrill chastises Anders that there's no such thing as a good spirit, because all spirits are dangerous.

Simply because Merrill went her own way doesn't mean she didn't understand what she was doing.

[Doozerpindan]

I'm Pro-Mage all the way. The Templars abuse their power over Mages all the time, innocents are imprisoned, beaten, tortured, raped and killed for little to no reason by Templars who believe it's within their divine right to commit such acts.

All Mages want is the same freedom that others have. There is a solution to the issue, but the Chantry with it's moronic views on magic turns the Templars from being "wardens" or guards to raging zealots and power hungry/warmongering scumbags who deserve nothing more than a horrifying death by Mage-Fire.

There should be a circle, there should also be Templars. Have the Mages get sent to the circle until they reach adulthood, where they undergo a harrowing. If they fail, try to imprison them, and only kill them as a last resort, then go into the fade and make them tranquil, as they are a danger to themselves and everyone around them. If they pass, then let them leave and have the same freedom as everybody else, but also keep the phylacteries so Templars can still track Blood Mages should the need arise.

There are only so many Blood Mages because they are forced into such desperate actions by the Templars who abuse them day after day after day. How many real life stories are their of people killing their abusers? Exactly. This is no different. With power comes responsibility, to be sure, but the demons are well aware that the terror and desperation the Mages feel every day make them easy targets for possession.

Modifié par doozerpindan, 27 octobre 2012 - 01:35 .

[Plaintiff]

Cimeas wrote...
Thedas has been stuck in fantasy land for however many years because of magic, and to progress magic simply has to disappear as the 'easy option' to curing wounds/travel/war etc...

This reasoning is completely faulty.

Magic was never the "easy option" for anything, because the Chantry restricts its use entirely. Nobody except the Chantry has access to it, unless they harbour an apostate, which is incredibly risky.

Thedas has stagnated because the most powerful organization on the continent has an extreme bias against the use and research of the most valuable and versatile resource they possess.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a society being stagnant anyway. If it needs and wants for nothing, then there is no problem.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 27 octobre 2012 - 01:54 .

[Emzamination]

Pro-Templar

Magic has destroyed so many lives such as sophia dryden, the templars of the ferelden circle, leandra and the... grand cleric Maker, I hate bioware for not allowing me to save her. The first mage I execute will be dedicated to you Elthina, may you find the maker's embrace, your holiness.

Modifié par Emzamination, 27 octobre 2012 - 01:59 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

Cimeas wrote...
Thedas has been stuck in fantasy land for however many years because of magic, and to progress magic simply has to disappear as the 'easy option' to curing wounds/travel/war etc...

This reasoning is completely faulty.

Magic was never the "easy option" for anything, because the Chantry restricts its use entirely. Nobody except the Chantry has access to it, unless they harbour an apostate, which is incredibly risky.

Thedas has stagnated because the most powerful organization on the continent has an extreme bias against the use and research of the most valuable and versatile resource they possess.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a society being stagnant anyway. If it needs and wants for nothing, then there is no problem.

Incorrect. Everybody who can make the travel, and probably pay the fee, can have acces to magic. Thing is, peasant can hardly afford the time spent travel, not to mention any fee the Circle may crave. So it is usually just the nobles of Thedas who can afford the services of the Circles.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 27 octobre 2012 - 02:00 .

[Hurbster]

If I get the choice then neutral. Had enough of that in DA2.

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Incorrect. Everybody who can make the travel, and probably pay the fee, can have acces to magic.

"Access isn't impossible, it just might as well be because of the extremely selfish limitations of the Chantry!"

Anders provided his services for free and he was squatting in the sewer. The Chantry amasses enough wealth through other measn that it could easily afford to follow his example. it chooses not to because of simple greed. 

Thing is, peasant can hardly afford the time spent travel, not to mention any fee the Circle may crave. So it is usually just the nobles of Thedas who can afford the services of the Circles.

Inexcusable. The system should never have been set up that way to begin with.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 27 octobre 2012 - 02:24 .