356 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark Tlaloc]

UkranyannBR wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Here are the numbers.

With a Harrier X with EB and AP:
Base 130 damage
+25% from EB
+80% TC damage
+20% AR bonus from TC
+30% from passives
+27.5% from damage-specced stimulant pack
+12% from Warfighter
+30% from AR amp III

Each Harrier shot does 421.85 damage. That means it has a spike DPS of 3866.96 with perfect long-ranged accuracy and no recoil. Even taking away the 2 second period of +80% TC damage, it's DPS is still absurd. Explain how this is balanced.

You are wrong.
The damage bonus granted to AR by TC is 10 seconds at rank 6...since you choose to increase the duration of the TC and not the bonus damage.

What I do not understand, this enormous desire that some players have to ruin good characters! BW does not need help for that. Already fu***** with the game all the time, increasing the difficulty of the game, "rebalancing to worst" most things still useful and creating hordes of dragoons and phantoms in gold.

Stop to think, before suggesting a nerf. The character came with the new DLC, because it is needed. Ghosts and Havocs are elite soldiers of the Turians, and the Destroyer is an elite soldier of humans.

Moreover, the game is cooperative, non-competitive. Whether the team has 3 Turians with Harriers XXVIII and you are there with your Drell and a pistol of water. If they do work, it's great for me. Someone complains of 80 000 credits in an extraction of gold?  No! So, that's it!

Yeah, I really don't get it either. I was playing Reapers Gold last night on PUG, and I was using the combination of stagger from heavy melee, TC + Stimpacks to basically revive people constantly, even in situations where I shouldn't have been able to get to them. We only wiped on Wave 10 because I was sync-killed by a Banshee while cloaked and being knocked backwards by a Brute.

If the Turian Ghost gets nerfed, I assume they'll nerf the Stimpack, and then a good part of my support-plan for teammates will be gone. Mostly I hope they just don't significantly neft the Ghost.

Modifié par Dark Tlaloc, 25 octobre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

billy the squid wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

First off, I am almost NEVER in favor of player-side nerfs.

That being said, all you ever see in Gold matches anymore is Turian Ghosts with Harriers, and a ton of them have a Harrier X. Playing as any other class/setup is literally resigning yourself to be an assist machine while they kill Gold Banshees in under 5 seconds. The rate at which they kill things is completely unmatched. It makes the pre-nerf Pirahna GI look weak in comparison. And unlike the GI, it isn't squishy with a passive that takes a huge chunk of shields. In fact, it has a power that instantly regens their shields and gives them a massive shield bonus as well.

I stopped reading at loads of people have a Harrier X... dumb arse.

Good luck getting a decent ammo supply if you have more than two Harriers in a match, you'll be humping the ammo box for most of the match. If you have a Destroyer in the game and a Ghost. Haha, they'll be fighting over grenade, stim pack and ammo half the time.

Shield bonus is only if you don't take weapon damage boost. And an UR assault rifle is very damagein? D: Jesus Christ someone call Fox! It's a scandal. 

More like you just got your arse handed to you by another good player. It happens. Put a Ghost in the hands of a poor player and they'll still die easily, put them in the hands of a good one and they're Godly, if you know what you're doing.

When am I going to be one of these "tons of people" who have a Harrier X?!? I've seen 3 people with one. (I know more than that have one) and give ANYONE a god gun and they turn into god.

Give a newbie a class, they will die (Any class)
Give a good/great/pro player a decent class and they will do good. End of story.

[Elfonztm]

Oh f*ck off allready, you whinner, play the game and shut your mouth. Let the others enjoy it as they wish. I personally don't have ANY problem with "OP" characters. I usually outscore them and have fun with no-"OP' classes.

If you want to do this, just ignore Turian Ghost or whatever you call "OP" and go to the other side of the map, i'm sure you will be busy with enemies swarming you, idiot -.-

Modifié par Elfonztm, 25 octobre 2012 - 02:27 .

[kyles3]

I don't think anything is overpowered, but I knew the moment I played the Ghost that he was cruising for a nerfing--he's just too awesome to live. So I haven't played him at all. Did the same thing with Destroyer and Demolisher and weapons like the Krysae and Pirahna. This way I never have to get mad about nerfs because I'm usually using an under-the-radar class like the FQE or TSent anyway. I've even been avoiding using my beloved Harrier VIII because I don't want to get too attached to it.

[TMB903]

IMO the Ghost will suffer the same exact fate as the GI. By that I mean that their powers synergize so well together that they will remain amazing characters even if adjusted. The GI is still an extremely powerful character and IF Bioware decides the TG is too powerful then he will adjusted and still be an all-around powerhouse.

[BlackDahlia424]

UkranyannBR wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Here are the numbers.

With a Harrier X with EB and AP:
Base 130 damage
+25% from EB
+80% TC damage
+20% AR bonus from TC
+30% from passives
+27.5% from damage-specced stimulant pack
+12% from Warfighter
+30% from AR amp III

Each Harrier shot does 421.85 damage. That means it has a spike DPS of 3866.96 with perfect long-ranged accuracy and no recoil. Even taking away the 2 second period of +80% TC damage, it's DPS is still absurd. Explain how this is balanced.

You are wrong.
The damage bonus granted to AR by TC is 10 seconds at rank 6...since you choose to increase the duration of the TC and not the bonus damage.

What I do not understand, this enormous desire that some players have to ruin good characters! BW does not need help for that. Already fu***** with the game all the time, increasing the difficulty of the game, "rebalancing to worst" most things still useful and creating hordes of dragoons and phantoms in gold.

Stop to think, before suggesting a nerf. The character came with the new DLC, because it is needed. Ghosts and Havocs are elite soldiers of the Turians, and the Destroyer is an elite soldier of humans.

Moreover, the game is cooperative, non-competitive. Whether the team has 3 Turians with Harriers XXVIII and you are there with your Drell and a pistol of water. If they do work, it's great for me. Someone complains of 80 000 credits in an extraction of gold?  No! So, that's it!

Right, and the all purpose 80% damage bonus lasts 2 seconds after decloaking.

My point is that the character with one of the top 2 DPS outputs in the game while having one of the top survivabilites isn't balanced. It's ability to abuse the Harrier is rediculous.

[JimmyBazooka]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Everyone is clearly in denial.

Get lost, basement dweller.

[Dark Tlaloc]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

UkranyannBR wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Here are the numbers.

With a Harrier X with EB and AP:
Base 130 damage
+25% from EB
+80% TC damage
+20% AR bonus from TC
+30% from passives
+27.5% from damage-specced stimulant pack
+12% from Warfighter
+30% from AR amp III

Each Harrier shot does 421.85 damage. That means it has a spike DPS of 3866.96 with perfect long-ranged accuracy and no recoil. Even taking away the 2 second period of +80% TC damage, it's DPS is still absurd. Explain how this is balanced.

You are wrong.
The damage bonus granted to AR by TC is 10 seconds at rank 6...since you choose to increase the duration of the TC and not the bonus damage.

What I do not understand, this enormous desire that some players have to ruin good characters! BW does not need help for that. Already fu***** with the game all the time, increasing the difficulty of the game, "rebalancing to worst" most things still useful and creating hordes of dragoons and phantoms in gold.

Stop to think, before suggesting a nerf. The character came with the new DLC, because it is needed. Ghosts and Havocs are elite soldiers of the Turians, and the Destroyer is an elite soldier of humans.

Moreover, the game is cooperative, non-competitive. Whether the team has 3 Turians with Harriers XXVIII and you are there with your Drell and a pistol of water. If they do work, it's great for me. Someone complains of 80 000 credits in an extraction of gold?  No! So, that's it!

Right, and the all purpose 80% damage bonus lasts 2 seconds after decloaking.

My point is that the character with one of the top 2 DPS outputs in the game while having one of the top survivabilites isn't balanced. It's ability to abuse the Harrier is rediculous.

I just think it's a pretty ****ty situation that the line "ability to abuse the Harrier" exists. Not criticizing you, but I think it sucks that we get these super cool UR weapons, and they're more powerful than the other weapons (because, you know, they're UR and are a reward for us buying a crapload of packs), and then they get nerfed because apparently having a powerful UR gun makes no sense. 

Why do we have URs then? In the case of guns like the Scorpion, I guess I get it, since it's really unique, but what is the point in releasing general use powerful weapons, only to nerf them? It just seems like a better route would be to keep the URs to guns like the Scorpion and PPR, which are unique (and characters like the Volus), and guns that all kits can utilize to the Rare category.

[billy the squid]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Right, and the all purpose 80% damage bonus lasts 2 seconds after decloaking.

My point is that the character with one of the top 2 DPS outputs in the game while having one of the top survivabilites isn't balanced. It's ability to abuse the Harrier is rediculous.

I'm stealing the numbers from someone else. But a weapon dependant DPS centred class, has one of the highest DPS in the game? No sh*t Sherlock! Now, factor in the latest big buffs to Turian Sol and Sent. Weapon passive damage. The Ghost's complete lack of debuff from Prox mine, warp, Geth racial weapon bonus, grenade damage from Destroyer. The Ghost looks on a par with 4/5 other classes which are also DPS beasts. Except it relies on the sheer rate of fire as it has no way to debuff armour/ shields or inflict addit damage over time using grenades like the other classes.

Because here are REAL numbers pertaining to ONLY the TGI. MAX Damage Spec.
+80% for 2.5s (Tac. Cloak)
+20% for 10s (Tac. Cloak ARs)
+27.5% for either 6s or 9s (Stim Pack)
+30% (Armiger Legion)

TOTAL:
157.5% for 2.5s (ARs)
77.5% for max 9s
50% for 10s
30% overall
(Raised Shields)

Compare to the Human Soldier with AdRush, MAX damage Spec:
70% for 6.8s Max (AdRush)
27.5% (Alliance Training)

TOTAL:
97.5% for 6.8s max
27.5% overall
(Boosted Shields for 6.8s)

THEN Compare to the Geth Infiltrator with Hunter Mode, MAX damage Spec:
22.5% (AI Reg)
10% (AI Geth)
17.5% (Hunter Mode)
80% for 2.5s (Tac. Cloak)
25% for 2.5s (Tac. Cloak SRs)

TOTAL:
155% for 2.5s (SRs)
50% overall.
(Halved Shields)

Compare to the Destroyer with Devastator Mode, MAX damage Spec:
30% (DM)
27.5% (T5-V)

TOTAL:
57.5%
(Boosted shields)

Modifié par billy the squid, 25 octobre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Zero132132]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

UkranyannBR wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Here are the numbers.

With a Harrier X with EB and AP:
Base 130 damage
+25% from EB
+80% TC damage
+20% AR bonus from TC
+30% from passives
+27.5% from damage-specced stimulant pack
+12% from Warfighter
+30% from AR amp III

Each Harrier shot does 421.85 damage. That means it has a spike DPS of 3866.96 with perfect long-ranged accuracy and no recoil. Even taking away the 2 second period of +80% TC damage, it's DPS is still absurd. Explain how this is balanced.

You are wrong.
The damage bonus granted to AR by TC is 10 seconds at rank 6...since you choose to increase the duration of the TC and not the bonus damage.

What I do not understand, this enormous desire that some players have to ruin good characters! BW does not need help for that. Already fu***** with the game all the time, increasing the difficulty of the game, "rebalancing to worst" most things still useful and creating hordes of dragoons and phantoms in gold.

Stop to think, before suggesting a nerf. The character came with the new DLC, because it is needed. Ghosts and Havocs are elite soldiers of the Turians, and the Destroyer is an elite soldier of humans.

Moreover, the game is cooperative, non-competitive. Whether the team has 3 Turians with Harriers XXVIII and you are there with your Drell and a pistol of water. If they do work, it's great for me. Someone complains of 80 000 credits in an extraction of gold?  No! So, that's it!

Right, and the all purpose 80% damage bonus lasts 2 seconds after decloaking.

My point is that the character with one of the top 2 DPS outputs in the game while having one of the top survivabilites isn't balanced. It's ability to abuse the Harrier is rediculous.

But for that 2-second duration DPS, you're also including stimpack (spec'd for damage) usage. If people use it that way, it becomes an offensive power, and survivability will decrease when you're out of them later. His survivability AND DPS with that build are very tied to an ammo box, too.

That being said, the Ghost is sort of on GI status with me. I'll take it to U/U/P, but not into Gold matches anymore, so he's definitely a crutch class. The real question is how you could fix him without breaking anything else.

Changing his fitness, racial passive, or stim pack will hit the Havok much harder, because the Havok needs all of these things to be effective. An overload nerf would hit other tech classes without really messing up his DPS. The only thing that can be examined is his tactical cloak specifically. Since it's unique, they probably could alter it without messing up other infiltrators, but it would just feel wrong for one character to specifically have a weaker version of tactical cloak.

Also want you to consider this;
Human Infiltrator doesn't get the stimulant pack bonus and the racial passive is 27.5% rather than 30%, so that's +147%, but with a multiplicative debuff (cryo blast) of 25%, you end up with a total weapon damage multiplier of 3.0875. Without screwing up grenade spawning on the map, the common Human Infiltrator can get 401.375 damage per harrier shot. If you discount the stimulant pack in your calculations above (most people use them for survivability, not consistent damage output), the base human infiltrator does more damage than the Ghost even with the Harrier. Do you REALLY think that his damage output is so amazing?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

CaptainTeabag wrote...

Get rid of stunlocks and sync-kills THEN you can nerf my favorite characters.

With all of the AI factions so damn strong and own the ability to shoot straight through our shieldgate/healthgate, i'd say the Ghost is perfectly balanced.

1) Scion magic bullets and grenades = player dead in one shot
2) Paretorians wall hacks laser (that can be fire out of its butt) = player dead in one shot
3) Prime's mass stunlock abuse + Drone stunlock = player can't fight back after being hit once... dead
4) Hunter's being able to stunlock us through stasis = player dies coz it can't fight back
5) Possessed Collector Captains one-shot-kills = player downed then promptly stomped 2 secs later
6) Possessed Abomination = player dead after being silently sneaked up on and nuked
7) Atlas Stunlock Missile = Player survives with one 1 bit of HP then has it burnt off because DoT and stunlock prevents Ops Pack being used (BS!)
8) Phantoms now have magnet grab and will sync kill you during Shadow Strike/ Havoc Strike animations
9) Geth Rocket Trooper = missile gatling gun = player dead in one shot
10) Banshee can teleport through a wall right in front of ur face and grab u for an insta-kill = players cheaply killed with no way of dodging
11) Dragoons are crazy powerful and prevent you from successfully completing a 4-Device-Hack objective due to spawning too fast after you take em out and their speed allows them to come back at you before you can cap a device.
12) Enemies will no literally spawn right next to a player regardless if he/she is standing in a spawn zone (as of 24th Oct stealth balance changes)

So you see, Ghost is fairly matched against the above BS. If anything, the rest of the character's need buffing.

This ! With the amount of annoying enemies, the Ghost is perfectly justified

[kelly ripas bicep]

no it's not. It's a one dimensional character, you either play it just right or it's powerless. That doesn't make it op

[Epsilon42]

Atheosis wrote...

Your "simple tactic" only works as long as you don't get stunlocked or sync-killed.  The Ghost doesn't expose himself to that kind of risk.

While I'm neutral on this topic, despite being against ALL NERFS, that last bit is not true at all.  Sometimes, at the higher ranks, enemies see through the tactical cloak.  And it's impossible to be ALWAYS shielded from that risk.  He may not be AS EXPOSED to the risk, but he has exposure to it nonetheless.

On a sidenote, there's more whine on this board since the latest balance changes than in the ABC store.

[upinya slayin]

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

I've been playing for the last few hours...only seen one turian Ghost with a Harrier. >_> Nerf yourself OP.

i'd kill for a TGI to have a harrier X in my game. i usually get crap layouts. last one i remember was TGI with rev, Vols Eng don't rememeber weapon, and another infiltrator (human i think) with a pheaston and me with a MQE and scorpion. Somehow the volus doubled the pheaston inf (like 25k to 50k) the TGI put up a respectable 80kish but was spamming stimpacks so much I barely got a grenade at all from any crate all game and i was around the 115 mark. oh and they picked the enemy as giant and reapers. the volus and infiltrator spent alot of time trying to camp that room and dying

[mrcanada]

Let's face it, these threads need to stop. You making another one on top of the other 50 isn't going to matter is it? Play the game and shhhhhhhh

[Merchant2006]

You can't play any matches without seeing Ghosts? I've played 10 rounds yesterday and none of them used it. So shut up.

[cgj]

if you play the TGI off host you might as well spec out of stim packs if you were using them for survivability, if you used those for damage anyway then you can keep them

but these things are sooooooooooo host dependant that it makes me wonder if they'll nerf it or not

otherwise, yes this character is just as strong if not stronger than the GI but without the lack of survivability (though i still think the GI is slightly superior)
why do you think we see so many platinium solo thread these day, if it's not a volus that has something to prove ... TGI harrier

Modifié par cgj, 03 novembre 2012 - 12:40 .

[megabeast37215]

mybudgee wrote...

No he isn't

Even 1 year ago... Still posting moronic crap. Some things never change...

[Moby]

Cool necro man.
You said you'll be home tonight yeah? Up for some Magic?

[HeroicMass]

Reading through this again gave me a good laugh.

[megabeast37215]

MofuggerX wrote...

Cool necro man.
You said you'll be home tonight yeah? Up for some Magic?

It'll be very late... Like midnight my time.

[Deerber]

Feneckus wrote...

Next DLC weapon : M-920 Cain

BSN Reaction : Don't nerf it, it's not OP

Lol. Then they ask me why I liked this guy.

Thanks for the necro Mega, made me have some good laughs, and just a tiny bit of melanchony

[HeroicMass]

I will say, I do miss "discussions" like this when balance changes were still taking place.

OT, I apologize again.

[Deerber]

heroicmass wrote...

OT, I apologize again.

[Moby]

megabeast37215 wrote...

MofuggerX wrote...

Cool necro man.
You said you'll be home tonight yeah? Up for some Magic?

It'll be very late... Like midnight my time.

Aww.  
Okay then.