288 réponses à ce sujet

[Hantaksk]

L2P

[Dembed]

Jiovanie- wrote...

doozerdude wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Destroyer and Demolisher Nerf were uncalled for.

Actually it was:whistle:

And definitely not signing this. Destroyer and Demolisher were the two most common classses you see on gold/plat because they were simply OP.

Multiplayer is all about playing as aliens and tons of other characters... Why the **** would anyone want two super powerful characters that absolutely trivialize the others?

I actually can think of a reason why you might want that, cause you suck, and it made you feel like you could play gold/platinum when really you can't.

Overpowered is saying that these too classes were far too powerful. I don't see how that's true considering how they get downed just like every other class does. I've seen the Destroyer downed several times in one match; that's not even including executions. 

They were not overpowered in anyway; they were fine with where they were at and how they performed. Also, I don't think they were used the most simply because they were the most effective. I believe they were used because they fit people's playstyles better or were more aesthetically pleasing. I don't think using a character is an indicator of skill level. 

How does using the Human Male Soldier make one more skilled than using the N7 Destroyer? I'd say that was a childish claim if you were actually serious. I still prefer the Batarian over the Destroyer simply because the Batarian is my Go to soldier for fitting me aesthetically.

Thats exactly what i also think, the Destroyer just fits my playstyle and i didnt even cared about the movementpenalty and because of that i often got grabbed by Banshees, but the firepower made i acceptable.

Finally the Typhoon was usuable with the 2 new mods but now its only playable with the Turian Soldier, why even bother now with the Destroyer?  

[Madeline Lightning]

Fagnan's quote ... changing what they did changed everything about him to be worse. the devs just seem bad at balancing guns. They don't have the experience or problem solving necessary to do it right, thus they ruined the destroyers firepower and how he plays and he does play different. I'm sure Fagnan or Chris can see my Origin account and I invite them to look at my data and see how he suffered before and how much more he will in the coming week I use him. I'm not a horrible player but not the best. They will see how their change screwed this guy over for me. He had a lot going for him but he wasn't that great before and now he's even worse and between playing the nerf version him (or demolisher) or an alien I'll just not play the game at all. I'd like to see him and the demolisher reverted back to how they were. Maybe look to hire someone who's better at balancing weapons and doing the math. Just looking over everything they did to "balance" the game from day 1 to this point, and any good things they did or rather discovered smarter people pointing out on reddit, and then their comments about the change to the Destroyer and balancing other guns which sounds like a goofy excuse for just not understanding what they did to him by changing him shows me they have a poor understanding of the mechanics of their own game.

Modifié par Madeline Lightning, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:18 .

[Drayce333]

R.I.P.

[xXdmndmnXx]

signed, if that's ever going to help...

[DC69]

Signed. I thought so highly of BioWare for all the work they put into the single-player aspect of the trilogy but their constant tinkering with the multiplayer for the worse is growing very tiresome. If they want players to use other characters they shouldn't have to nerf the popular ones, instead improve the weaker ones so they're a viable choice.

AresKeith wrote...
The nerfing of the Supply pylon was a really bad move, since its a support power

Could not agree more. The Supply Pylon is what gives the Demolisher most of her punch, otherwise she is reduced to camping ammo crates and as we all know camping doesn't mesh with BioWare's "artistic integrity".

Modifié par DC69, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:32 .

[Aryck the One]

Supply Pylon nerf wasn't necessary. /signed.

Devastator Mode, on the other hand; well, I thought it was a bit stupid at first, but it actually makes certain automatic weapons like the Revenant and Typhoon a bit easier to control. Instead of de-nerfing it, maybe they could buff it's defensive capabilities? Buff the level 4 shield regen bonus to +30% and the level 6 max shields to +60%. I could live with that.

[Rildok]

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...

Supply Pylon nerf wasn't necessary. /signed.

Devastator Mode, on the other hand; well, I thought it was a bit stupid at first, but it actually makes certain automatic weapons like the Revenant and Typhoon a bit easier to control. Instead of de-nerfing it, maybe they could buff it's defensive capabilities? Buff the level 4 shield regen bonus to +30% and the level 6 max shields to +60%. I could live with that.

That, and add so it reaches 50% mag size so I can have 3 shots with the wraith and raider again.

[cubaka11]

+1

[Jzadek72]

death_for_sale wrote...

Jzadek72 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Jzadek72 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Jzadek72 wrote...

No. Bioware explained that the Destroyer nerf was so that they'd have less headache creating weapons that would be good on every character, rather than either too powerful on the Destroyer or useless on everyone else. I want good weapons for all my kits rather than a second longer firing on my Destroyer.

Demolisher was barely nerfed.

Stop being so histrionic. Neither of these makes that much difference, calm down and grow up. This is seriously not worth the tantrums some (not all) people are throwing.

Psst...The GI and TI would like to have a word with you regarding nerfing DM so Bioware can create balanced weapons.

Demolisher pylon is huge. As it stood, you could have a good cache of grenades at all times for those SHTF moments. Now you won't. When you tack in the fact that the most common build skipped fitness, you now have a glass support character with about 20% less support.

According to Chris Sanche, it was the clip size which was causing the problem. I can live with the relatively tiny change.

On the subject of the Demolisher pylon, since you phrazed it like an adult rather than a screaming child, I went back and checked to see if there was anything I missed.

Supply Pylon Power
- Base frequency for spawning ammo increased from 15 to 17.5 seconds
- Base frequency for spawning grenades increased from 20 to 24 seconds
- Evolution 3 weapon damage bonus decreased from 15% to 10%
- Evolution 4 power damage bonus decreased from 15% to 10%

Four seconds. That is Four. Seconds. That's only a little longer than the time it takes to fire a homing grenade. That isn't 20% less support, that's being a tiny, tiny little more conservative with grenades. In practice, that means squat. That's one grenade that maybe you don't throw right then. If that.

I'm not particularly for or against nerfing. I'm not one of those (evidently mythical) 'nerfducks'. What happened to the Krysae was an atrocity, but this is barely a change. To be honest, I'm not sure there was any point even doing it. If Eric hadn't announced this, no one would ever have noticed. 

Then why did they hit the RoF as well, which directly affects sustained DPS? You can quote BW devs, but the fact is that Fagnan already said that the class was nerfed because it was one of the most played classes, then he said that it was also to help them balance weapons. Yet the GI remains the most unbalanced weapon class in the game, followed closely by the TI. If they are going to nerf a class to balance weapons, they need to nerf all of the ones making weapons unbalanced, wouldn't you say?

As far as the Pylon goes, you are looking at one instance and saying 4 seconds is not that big of a deal. You obviously do not play the class that much. It is huge because of one simple factor. You could wait around 2 seconds after the pylon dropped ammo, then recast it to get an instant new set of grenades. Now it will take twice that amount of time, making it much less feasible to do that. It means that you will have far less grenades refilling what you are using, meaning a direct DPS hit of around 15-20%.

Additionally, longer ammo spawns, less weapon damage if you took that evo or less power damage if you took that evo. The fact of the matter is, with less grenades and less power damage, you will do significantly less damage. If you were one of the people using the harrier or other low ammo weapon then you now get less ammo and less weapon damage, a double hit to DPS as well.

tl;dr

Both classes just took a double hit to sustained DPS because they were popular classes and Bioware nerfs popular classes, weapons, maps, etc to encourage players to buy or use other weapons or classes. This upsets people because they liked playing the classes. You are not helping in any way by saying it isn't a big deal.

I liked playing the Demolisher. I still do, because it feels exactly the same. She's a fine class, and remains so. I also like playing the Destroyer, and am going to take him for a spin soon with his new BUFFS. It is not a big deal, and sustained DPS is a number - the GPR has DPS comparable to the Carnifex, but the latter is certainly more powerful. In gameplay, neither class has really been hit.

I could understand being a little upset, because it is a little demoralising to see those numbers go down. But there's a difference between that and the entitled weeping that goes on here. I'm not sympathetic to people who cry 'RUINED FOREVER' when they lose 5 from their ammo count. This hysteria is not warranted, and is childish and a little pathetic.

GPR = 373.26 sustained DPS
Carnifex = 466.35 sustained DPS

That isn't even remotely comparable.

If you play Demolisher and you think that it feels exactly the same, then you are one of those people who place a pylon and never recast it unless you have to move. In other words, you don't know how to play the class. As I said, and you completely ignored as you went on to rant over childish and pathetic hysteria, you could wait 1-2 seconds after placing the pylon, getting the new ammo drop, and then cast it again to get an automatic 2 new grenades. This means you could sustain your DPS at a higher rate because you could maintain a stock of grenades. Now you cannot do that. The fact that this is not apparent to you and your earlier gaffe about how the GPR and Carnifex are close in damage, indicates to me that you do not know how to play the game.

If you don't know how the mechanics work and the little tricks and tweaks you can do to maximise your capabilities, then I have to assume that you are just here to troll. Given your last comment criticizing people for hysteria, I no longer assume it, I KNOW it.

It's nice when people create strawmen so they don't need to actually argue. I'll agree that the GPR/Carnifex example was bad, it was based on a comment I saw ages ago. But calling me a troll or speculating on my playstyle without evidence is just fallacious. Still, at least you're actually forming a coherent argument. You are not the problem. 

[Battlepope190]

There's nothing to get "back" since they didn't go anywhere.

[Untonic]

/signed

Was unnecessary, at least Demolisher wise. Devastator's nerf I could live with.

[E71]

I rarely play them but I'm sick and tired of player nerfs.

/signed

[Sopec]

Signed

I don't understand it at all. It has never crossed mind that these character could even be considered overpowered. Two N7s, I'm really scared for my Fury right now.

[badass47]

signed and unnerf the Gi and piranha

[smith056]

Signed.

[FUBARczar]

/signed

[Pladim]

/signed

[darkpassenger2342]

my god with the whining.

[Rildok]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

my god with the whining.

There is nothing wrong with voicing opinions, unless you're a total D-bag about it.

[PaperAlien]

/signed

[GrundyzMoshPit]

Signed

[Zjarcal]

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

Signed. I want the destroyer to be able to destroy and the demolisher to demolish.

They are more than capable of doing that right now.

Feneckus wrote...

I love the Destroyer nerf, there's finally a reason to play the Turian Soldier again. It's like we got two new classes today.

And the nerf isn't even that significant tbh, I barely saw any difference.

I just played with a friend rocking his Destroyer and Typhoon IV, he was just as awesome as always (didn't play one myself because I wanted to try the Valkyrie).

Madeline Lightning wrote...

I hate developers who nerf. I absolutely hate that kind of development. It's not professional and it's just lazy. 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 octobre 2012 - 05:26 .