257 réponses à ce sujet

[xAmilli0n]

starlitegirlx wrote...

I'd feel so betrayed I'd rage war on everything in my path. Or I'd find a way to destroy myself rather than live in that new hell because it was forced on my by someone who thought it was a good idea to befriend such a wicked enemy and then let it change every cell in my body.

Ah, but these are petty human emotions, with synthesis, you now transcend these irrational notions.  Your new higher level of existence would allow you understand the gift Synthesis has brought upon the galaxy.

Or something like that

Modifié par xAmilli0n, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:55 .

[ManiacG]

This blows a whole in syntesis every time, any argumennt you can muster can be botched at 0:28-0-55.

ps check my sig for the answer

Modifié par ManiacG, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:57 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

xAmilli0n wrote...
I can buy the idea of the Catalyst judging species unworthy, therefore destorying the Crucible (or did they...).  Definitely needs to be expanded on.

I can buy the Reaper personalities, but it should have been expanded on in game.  A sample size of two is quite limited (3 if you include the Destory on Rannoch, though we didn't much from it).  Where is our helpful, friendly, I'm doing this for your own good Reaper?

As for the Catalyst intervening to prevent one species from wiping another out (Geth/Quarians), species go extinct very often.  Heck the Krogan wiped out the Rachni (okay not really, but you can say the same would be true for any extinction) but the Catalyst did not intervene.  I do understand your point, and I do like the idea of these conflicts going against his programiing, forcing him to act, but it seems the exact trigger is a very vague "50K years, time to clean up."

Last point, if our cycle was ready, why not help with it?  After Rannoch, make contact with Shepard, and lets move forward together.  Of course, this would remove the main conflict of the game, so, that probably would not happen lol.

1)insert dramatic music immediately after "or did they" is said
2) I would love a Reaper that was created from a peaceloving race being all "Lets be friends with the cycles" to the other Reapers in Dark Space, or a Reaper that just doesn't care and hangs out somewhere until the harvest is over.
3) It can be explained as they simply missed it. Vigil states that Sovereign probably spent most of that 50,000 years in stasis to conserve power.
4) Like in "The Day the Earth Stood Still", the alien didn't call his machine off just because humanity promised to "be better". The Catalyst probably saw it as only a temporary peace due to the history of that conflict. Also, yeah would kind of defeat the point of the game if after Rannoch, Reapers are like "Oh, you guys friends with synthetics now. Let's come into my office to discuss peace".

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ManiacG wrote...



This blows a whole in syntesis every time, any argumennt you can muster can be botched at 0:28-0-55.

ps check my sig for the answer

starlitegirlx wrote...


So we have a pretty good idea as to what will happen as synthesis progresses and it doesn't look all pie in the sky. It may start out okay, but eventally, not so much.

The AI had different minds than the Zha, so fought for dominence. Synthesis doesn't place an AI in your head, so completely different.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:01 .

[ManiacG]

nope same thing different era

[Kel Riever]

I think the poll adequately reflects the general consensus, and while it is true that you can't say the poll, in a guaranteed way, reflects the feelings of those who can't respond to it, it has enough responders to argue the sample size is big enough to use as a guide.

Synthesis, I pretty much call, the most dumb of the dumb endings. In the most completely acquiescing spin I could possibly put on it, I'd say it is the ending which requires the most blanks to be filled in by the gamer who wants to like it.

[Heimdall]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
      
     I do not know why Reapers keep destroying a cycle's Crucible before it connects to the Catalyst except maybe they are judged to not be ready for that evolution.

It's quite possible that the Catalyst doesn't know what the Crucible does until it docks with the Citadel.  Reapers didn't build it after all.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ManiacG wrote...

nope same thing different era

Except you don't get a seperate entity placed in your head in  Synthesis, unlike the Zha'til.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lord Aesir wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
      
     I do not know why Reapers keep destroying a cycle's Crucible before it connects to the Catalyst except maybe they are judged to not be ready for that evolution.

It's quite possible that the Catalyst doesn't know what the Crucible does until it docks with the Citadel.  Reapers didn't build it after all.

Also likely, maybe to them it just appeared as some sort of WMD, which it is in Destroy.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:05 .

[Ieldra]

Kel Riever wrote...
I think the poll adequately reflects the general consensus.

There is no consensus. There is just a majority who dislikes it. Meaningless.

[rekn2]

Ieldra2 wrote...

It should come as no surprise that I like the outcome of Synthesis. A great deal. Why, that you can read in the OP of my Synthesis thread (link in my sig).

However, the rationale for it, the way it comes about and the way it's explained, that's so full of contradictions - even after the EC - that I'm still wondering what Mac Walters had been smoking. I would've thought that they'd use the EC to remove the worst aspects that make no sense, but no, they even add to it with parts of the exposition contradicting each other where before they "just" didn't make sense.

So even though I'm one of the main proponents of Synthesis here on BSN, I'm not blind to the flaws in its execution. Shepard's sacrifice is forced, the "final evolution" and the "new DNA" make no sense and contradict other parts of the exposition.

As much as like the outcome, Synthesis as presented in ME3 manages to mangle its own themes, and parts of it are rooted in comic book logic and vitalism and have no place in an SF universe. I pick Synthesis for the outcome and make up my own rationale, and if I have to ignore a part of the given exposition, well, that can't be avoided if there are contradictions. You have to discard one side.

im the same way. its just stupid that we have to in order for it to make any sense.

[Reth Shepherd]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

ManiacG wrote...



This blows a whole in syntesis every time, any argumennt you can muster can be botched at 0:28-0-55.

ps check my sig for the answer

starlitegirlx wrote...


So we have a pretty good idea as to what will happen as synthesis progresses and it doesn't look all pie in the sky. It may start out okay, but eventally, not so much.

The AI had different minds than the Zha, so fought for dominence. Synthesis doesn't place an AI in your head, so completely different.

Incorrect. The Zha'til (the merged race of organics and AIs) were getting along just fine until the Reapers came along and took control of them. Either way, you don't find it a bit damning that the instant the Reapers found a race matching Starkid's supposed goal, they immediately enslaved them?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I love the Synthesis ending. Everyone, Reapers included, benefit from it.

The scientist disagrees with you.

Mordin: "Disrupts socio-technological balance. All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready. Disastrous."

Also:

Mordin: "Reapers added tech to compensate. Mental capacity almost gone, replaced by overworked sensory input, transfers. Transmitting data to masters. No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive system, replaced by tech. No soul. Replaced by tech. Whatever they were, gone forever. Understand now? No art, no culture, closer to husks than slaves, tools for Reapers. Protheans dead, Collectors just final insult. Must be destroyed."

Catalyst states we are ready.

Of course he does. He's a Reaper.

Don't you realize what's going on?

i don't go anywhere near Indoctrination Hypothesis stuff. That has more holes than the endings ever did.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

ManiacG wrote...



This blows a whole in syntesis every time, any argumennt you can muster can be botched at 0:28-0-55.

ps check my sig for the answer

starlitegirlx wrote...


So we have a pretty good idea as to what will happen as synthesis progresses and it doesn't look all pie in the sky. It may start out okay, but eventally, not so much.

The AI had different minds than the Zha, so fought for dominence. Synthesis doesn't place an AI in your head, so completely different.

Incorrect. The Zha'til (the merged race of organics and AIs) were getting along just fine until the Reapers came along and took control of them. Either way, you don't find it a bit damning that the instant the Reapers found a race matching Starkid's supposed goal, they immediately enslaved them?

They were at war with the Prothean Empire, so they joined the Reapers in an attempt to survive, just like the Geth.

[DoomsdayDevice]

More synthesis-is-a-bad-idea foreshadowing:

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

(See previous page for heavy ending foreshadowing in Project Overlord)

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Reth Shepherd]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

i don't go anywhere near Indoctrination Hypothesis stuff. That has more holes than the endings ever did.

Why not? The Reapers have been using it as a major tool for at least the past billion years. Why wouldn't they try and use it against Shepard? As a correlary, have you read Mass Effect: Retribution? There's a scene near the end between Kahlee Sanders and Paul Grayson that mirrors nearly exactly the original chat with Starkid. I can quote the passage, if you'd like.

Also, you haven't responded yet to 'the Reapers ENSLAVED and used as a weapon the one race we know of who achieved Synthesis on their own'. A race that, by all accounts, was getting along just fine on its own.

[Ross42899]

Worst possible ending. Sorry. It feels just wrong to force synthesis to every living being in the galaxy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

More synthesis-is-a-bad-idea foreshadowing:

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

(See previous page for heavy ending foreshadowing in Project Overlord)

Again, Synthesis doesn't plant an AI in your head that will fight for dominance.

[Samtheman63]

hate it, reapers win

[AresKeith]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

ManiacG wrote...



This blows a whole in syntesis every time, any argumennt you can muster can be botched at 0:28-0-55.

ps check my sig for the answer

starlitegirlx wrote...


So we have a pretty good idea as to what will happen as synthesis progresses and it doesn't look all pie in the sky. It may start out okay, but eventally, not so much.

The AI had different minds than the Zha, so fought for dominence. Synthesis doesn't place an AI in your head, so completely different.

Incorrect. The Zha'til (the merged race of organics and AIs) were getting along just fine until the Reapers came along and took control of them. Either way, you don't find it a bit damning that the instant the Reapers found a race matching Starkid's supposed goal, they immediately enslaved them?

They were at war with the Prothean Empire, so they joined the Reapers in an attempt to survive, just like the Geth.

 
It actually was the Reapers who started it, they did the same thing Sovereign did in ME1

[Reth Shepherd]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

More synthesis-is-a-bad-idea foreshadowing:

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

(See previous page for heavy ending foreshadowing in Project Overlord)

Again, Synthesis doesn't plant an AI in your head that will fight for dominance.

Reread the codex. It is VERY explicit that the Reapers were the reason the AI went nuts. "When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky"." We have further supporting evidence in that the reason the Geth were a menace this cycle was because the Reapers recruited  some of the Geth, the "heretics", and used them against the organic races. Prior to that, they were staying in their little corner of the galaxy not bothering anyone.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

i don't go anywhere near Indoctrination Hypothesis stuff. That has more holes than the endings ever did.

Why not? The Reapers have been using it as a major tool for at least the past billion years. Why wouldn't they try and use it against Shepard? As a correlary, have you read Mass Effect: Retribution? There's a scene near the end between Kahlee Sanders and Paul Grayson that mirrors nearly exactly the original chat with Starkid. I can quote the passage, if you'd like.

Also, you haven't responded yet to 'the Reapers ENSLAVED and used as a weapon the one race we know of who achieved Synthesis on their own'. A race that, by all accounts, was getting along just fine on its own.

It's been a while, so please do. They tried, through The Illuse Man encounter but Shepard fought through it. As for the Zha'til, at that time of the harvest the AI's had taken complete control of the Zha and were fighting the Prothean Empire, so there was no Synthesis. The Reapers then enslaved the Zha'til like the Geth were, under the false pretense of aiding them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

AresKeith wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

ManiacG wrote...



This blows a whole in syntesis every time, any argumennt you can muster can be botched at 0:28-0-55.

ps check my sig for the answer

starlitegirlx wrote...


So we have a pretty good idea as to what will happen as synthesis progresses and it doesn't look all pie in the sky. It may start out okay, but eventally, not so much.

The AI had different minds than the Zha, so fought for dominence. Synthesis doesn't place an AI in your head, so completely different.

Incorrect. The Zha'til (the merged race of organics and AIs) were getting along just fine until the Reapers came along and took control of them. Either way, you don't find it a bit damning that the instant the Reapers found a race matching Starkid's supposed goal, they immediately enslaved them?

They were at war with the Prothean Empire, so they joined the Reapers in an attempt to survive, just like the Geth.

 
It actually was the Reapers who started it, they did the same thing Sovereign did in ME1

The Metacon War was already in full swing, the Protheans were winning. Then the Reapers came. Javik states this.

[Reth Shepherd]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

i don't go anywhere near Indoctrination Hypothesis stuff. That has more holes than the endings ever did.

Why not? The Reapers have been using it as a major tool for at least the past billion years. Why wouldn't they try and use it against Shepard? As a correlary, have you read Mass Effect: Retribution? There's a scene near the end between Kahlee Sanders and Paul Grayson that mirrors nearly exactly the original chat with Starkid. I can quote the passage, if you'd like.

Also, you haven't responded yet to 'the Reapers ENSLAVED and used as a weapon the one race we know of who achieved Synthesis on their own'. A race that, by all accounts, was getting along just fine on its own.

It's been a while, so please do. They tried, through The Illuse Man encounter but Shepard fought through it. As for the Zha'til, at that time of the harvest the AI's had taken complete control of the Zha and were fighting the Prothean Empire, so there was no Synthesis. The Reapers then enslaved the Zha'til like the Geth were, under the false pretense of aiding them.

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky"."

Give me a moment on the Retribution passage, I need to dig through a few bookmarks.