107 réponses à ce sujet

[TheContrived]

Tech Armour + Warp = Same thing you can achieve with Human and Turian Sentinels
Annihilation Field + Warp = Weaker Fury

Tech Armour + Annihilation Field = Hello, this is new


So here's what I did. I built my Valkyrie with no Warp, just 6's in everything else, aiming for a tough melee build that could survive in close quarters. The goal wasn't to detonate my own biotic explosions, but to get up close into melee and have everyone else detonate them for me.

Worked really well once vanguard and adept teammates saw what I was doing. I would run into a pack of enemies, use my heavy melee, and suddenly explosions all around me as a vanguard or adept started using their powers on the affected enemies. I was 1st or a close 2nd in the score board for the entirety of these games.

Modifié par TheContrived, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:35 .

[etm125]

I specced her 66644 with pierce on warp. The change in recharge for that spec over pierce is something negligible like 0.3 seconds. Ran her with a wraith X and she's a monster up close.

Can any math whiz give a serious breakdown of DR and fitness? Id love to spec her 6 fitness but I cant give up anything.....

My problem with skipping warp entirely is that she has a measly 625 hp shields etc. if im gonna go TA, big guns and eff the cooldown is why not do it with a krogan sent? Way tankier and lift nades. It seems like a huge waste. 

Modifié par etm125, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:41 .

[mrcanada]

count_4 wrote...

TheAdventurer29 
For those of you who don't know what damage reduction is, it is calculated based on the total amount of shields you have, and it provides with more effective HP.

Wait, what? You might want to rethink that...

No you might, that is exactly correct. The more health/shields you have, the more of a factor DR is.

[mrcanada]

If you are playing with top tier players on gold and platinum, standing back and just debuffing with warp doesn't cut it, you have to do more than that.

[robgfaulkner]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

Like I said, she doesn't make that many BE to justify no points in Valkyrie. Even with recharge on warp, she is a slow BE machine. I didn't enjoy playing her like I do the Fury.

Agreed. I specced to 6/6/6/0/6 when I got her, but remain unconvinved that explosions are the way to go. Making her a debuffer with high weapon damage seems to make more sense.

this!

[mrcanada]

KentGoldings wrote...

I don't think the Damage Reduction has a thing to do with your Health. More health means you can take more damage. Damage reduction means you take less damage. It's the combination of the two that leads to a tough characters.

Asari need to blow stuff up. I think there are at least half a dozen viable builds for the Valkerye. I think the real problems are not in the build but in ourselves. I think the Valkerye needs to be played well rather than built well.

Then you'd be completely wrong.

[Immortal Strife]

6/6/6/3/5, and here is why.

By now you should have a large enough manifest that weapon weight is not a concern hence no rank 4 in the passive tree. By simple applying the passive to rank 3 you inherently acquire a little weapon weight reduction, weapon damage and power damage. By ignoring ranks 4-6 you basically are forfeiting 25% power or 17.5 weapon damage which is not as big a deal as you think, you are also losing weapon weight but I already stated that that is hardly a problem with a good manifest. The fitness tree to rank 5 is of course about picking up 15-20 shield and 15% shield gen (don't underestimate shield gen builds) for returning to the fray at a faster rate. I generally think of the passive trees as a foundation that can be built up with gear.

All the gear and equipment that have been introduced into MP have opened many build options but I still see most players sticking to cyclonic modulator builds for power classes and keeping high passives even though gear and equipment easily out produce the passives 4-6. So why do so many people use a low health high passive build, the answer is a cyclonic mod the crutch of all gear, with a cyclonic mod IV you get 150% shields, more shield in fact than the whole fitness tree. The problem is cyclonic mods are finite and when you are low on supply your build will be limited. Another reason I try and avoid the cyclonic mod builds is because you actually get more power by applying a power amp than using the passive tree, so, next time you build your power spammer try skipping the cyclonic mods and pump up that power with a power amp IV instead.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:48 .

[kira28]

the op has no idea what hes talking about in the builds section so i think he might of have pulled the damage reduction thing out of his ,,,.

The passive gives you better power recharge which is what this class needs. Taking recharge speed on warp only gives you a 0.2 better recharge if you carry the talon x. If you carry the piranha X it gives you a 0.3 better recharge.

This guy skips his passive so he needs to take recharge speed instead of pierce lol. In the end you still have a higher recharge speed than the people who put points in their passive.

[Jecalux]

I used the second build with the exception of going for Pierce on Warp and for Damage instead of Speed Movement on Annihilation Field. I gave her a Disciple X with Shredder + EB and an Arc Pistol X with AP + EB. I tried it on London/Collector/Silver, and she did some damage. Altough I still have some doubts on how to trigger BE.
I'll give you an example: running towards a Scion with the AF activated, the Scion becomes blue, I use Warp and the BE happens. Then I back up a little and run again towards him with the field activated. But he doesn't become blue. I had to hit him with Warp and then detonate the AF to make a BE. Is this normal? Because it sounds quite elaborate compared to the standard Warp + Throw...

[mrcanada]

Jecalux wrote...

I used the second build with the exception of going for Pierce on Warp and for Damage instead of Speed Movement on Annihilation Field. I gave her a Disciple X with Shredder + EB and an Arc Pistol X with AP + EB. I tried it on London/Collector/Silver, and she did some damage. Altough I still have some doubts on how to trigger BE.
I'll give you an example: running towards a Scion with the AF activated, the Scion becomes blue, I use Warp and the BE happens. Then I back up a little and run again towards him with the field activated. But he doesn't become blue. I had to hit him with Warp and then detonate the AF to make a BE. Is this normal? Because it sounds quite elaborate compared to the standard Warp + Throw...

Lag.

[Jecalux]

mrcanada wrote...

Jecalux wrote...

I used the second build with the exception of going for Pierce on Warp and for Damage instead of Speed Movement on Annihilation Field. I gave her a Disciple X with Shredder + EB and an Arc Pistol X with AP + EB. I tried it on London/Collector/Silver, and she did some damage. Altough I still have some doubts on how to trigger BE.
I'll give you an example: running towards a Scion with the AF activated, the Scion becomes blue, I use Warp and the BE happens. Then I back up a little and run again towards him with the field activated. But he doesn't become blue. I had to hit him with Warp and then detonate the AF to make a BE. Is this normal? Because it sounds quite elaborate compared to the standard Warp + Throw...

Lag.

Possible, I wan't the host after all...

[tjh_ca]

My understanding of how damage reduction works came from GP's thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12853150

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Damage Reduction mechanics: 
The damage reduction mechanics are weird.   They seem to be additive, except that X DR is actually a bit less than X DR, so you actually need more than 100% DR to take zero damage.   According to this ( social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Multiplayer-Discussion-/So-proof-of-Batarian-Heavy-Melee-DR-and-numbers-11485213-1.html ) You need 133% DR to take no damage.  

This handy chart can help you figure out how much your "true" health is with damage reduction.  
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12257669

Damage Reduction Formula:  [Damage Suffered] = [Base Damage] * 0.75 * (1 - [Total DR, numbers simply added together] / 100) + [Base Damage] * 0.25  (Source:  Egermano)

Here's a handy spreadsheet so that you can figure out how much damage reduction you're actually getting:
GP's Damage Reduction Spreadsheet

Is this wrong?

Modifié par tjh_ca, 25 octobre 2012 - 02:01 .

[mrcanada]

kira28 wrote...

the op has no idea what hes talking about in the builds section so i think he might of have pulled the damage reduction thing out of his ,,,.

The passive gives you better power recharge which is what this class needs. Taking recharge speed on warp only gives you a 0.2 better recharge if you carry the talon x. If you carry the piranha X it gives you a 0.3 better recharge.

This guy skips his passive so he needs to take recharge speed instead of pierce lol. In the end you still have a higher recharge speed than the people who put points in their passive.

The DR assessment is correct.

[Apl_Juice]

Full fitness isn't mandatory on any build outside of Kroguard and melee.

Also, DR is better than fitness, and powers that give DR also give other bonuses too.

[mrcanada]

tjh_ca wrote...

My understanding of how damage reduction works came from GP's thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12853150

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Damage Reduction mechanics: 
The damage reduction mechanics are weird.   They seem to be additive, except that X DR is actually a bit less than X DR, so you actually need more than 100% DR to take zero damage.   According to this ( social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Multiplayer-Discussion-/So-proof-of-Batarian-Heavy-Melee-DR-and-numbers-11485213-1.html ) You need 133% DR to take no damage.  

This handy chart can help you figure out how much your "true" health is with damage reduction.  
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12257669

Damage Reduction Formula:  [Damage Suffered] = [Base Damage] * 0.75 * (1 - [Total DR, numbers simply added together] / 100) + [Base Damage] * 0.25  (Source:  Egermano)

Here's a handy spreadsheet so that you can figure out how much damage reduction you're actually getting:
GP's Damage Reduction Spreadsheet

Is this wrong?

[Schachmatt123]

mrcanada wrote...

count_4 wrote...

TheAdventurer29 
For those of you who don't know what damage reduction is, it is calculated based on the total amount of shields you have, and it provides with more effective HP.

Wait, what? You might want to rethink that...

No you might, that is exactly correct. The more health/shields you have, the more of a factor DR is.

/(a little) offtopic:

So my AJ 66644 build with reave specced for DR is not very effectiv? And shieldboosting gear/amps further enhance DR specced characters?

[nicola_nibhroin]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Agreed. I specced to 6/6/6/0/6 when I got her, but remain unconvinved that explosions are the way to go. Making her a debuffer with high weapon damage seems to make more sense.

I have to say, after playing her a few times last night, I'd agree.

I initially, as with any Asari, immediately thought of BEs and had that in mind when speccing, but when playing found I ended up playing her like a less effective (and less fun) Fury. I even had AF specced the same way- Radius/increased movement/Drain.

She was hardly horrible, but just not what I expected, and felt a little off.

Once I was playing with another Biotic then Annihilation Field as a primer was just devastating so I'm thinking maybe without a biotic on the team or when you're working on something on your own focus on Warp + shooting, with AF built for damage as an extra layer of protection (and getting those power bonuses from TA for even more damage), then when there is another biotic on the team focus on getting close as a mobile primer.

If that's how she'll work out it'll be a nice flexible, adaptable character to play, which is always what I want in a Sentinel.

[Jammer]

I was running her 66644 last night as essentially a more durable Fury and struggling a bit. It was okay, but...Warp is a lot slower than Throw for in your face work. But I do wonder about a more CQC build where you charge in, detonate a BE with Warp, then detonate AF, and then detonate TA to finish up with a little melee, but I haven't looked at her melee yet...

[Spinotech]

I use a 6/6/6/4/4 build and I disagree with the OP.

[Lives Must Die]

Both builds mentioned are good... but I still prefer 6/6/6/4/4. 700/700 for HP and shields is good enough. You're effectively getting 980 health/shields with the damage reduction from tech armor.... and that's only with 40% damage reduction... not the possible 50% if you go full damage reduction with Tech Armor.

I play this class like a tankier Fury, but warp is essential for boss killing and to help your team mates with the Expose evolution. There are numerous ways to play with this class though. It also depends on your skill as a player. Some people need the extra fitness, some do not. If you do not need extra fitness, then that's always better. Just pop on a cyclonic modulator, and you're good to go.

[The Makr]

How about just 3 in AF and run the passives at 5 and 6?

[OuterRim]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

Like I said, she doesn't make that many BE to justify no points in Valkyrie. Even with recharge on warp, she is a slow BE machine. I didn't enjoy playing her like I do the Fury.

Agreed. I specced to 6/6/6/0/6 when I got her, but remain unconvinved that explosions are the way to go. Making her a debuffer with high weapon damage seems to make more sense.

+1

If you want to play her like the Fury as the OP's setup suggests, then use the Fury. She's much better at it.

The Asari Sentinal's strength is playing her as a debuffer using a high DPS weapon. Spec fully in the Armour and Fitness and her high DR ability makes her work well in this role. In a team, she greatly benefits from having someone else activate her BEs.

[Zero132132]

mrcanada wrote...

If you are playing with top tier players on gold and platinum, standing back and just debuffing with warp doesn't cut it, you have to do more than that.

With Annihilation Field and Warp on the same target, it's it can be a +30% multiplicative bonus. With the Wraith and HVB, she can still do this pretty often even with tech armor activated, and does decent damage. With the cover piercing and warp+HBV's armor negation, you can throw on incendiary rounds without losing anything important, and we all know how well Warp+Incendiary work together.

Is the warp+incendiary thing actually a glitch? I thought it was just an amazing example of DoT stacking, but people call it a glitch fairly often. If it is, I might use Warp and Warp Ammo, since it gives a decent damage bonus per shot if they're affected by biotics.

Modifié par Zero132132, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:34 .

[Geek]

6/6/6/4/4 and I definitely take the debuff on warp over the recharge speed. I don't play it quite like the fury though, it isn't as good as the fury at being a fury. Debuff with a hard hitting shotgun and incendiary rounds goes great with a healthy dose of biosplosions on the side.

[kelly ripas bicep]

OuterRim wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

Like I said, she doesn't make that many BE to justify no points in Valkyrie. Even with recharge on warp, she is a slow BE machine. I didn't enjoy playing her like I do the Fury.

Agreed. I specced to 6/6/6/0/6 when I got her, but remain unconvinved that explosions are the way to go. Making her a debuffer with high weapon damage seems to make more sense.

+1

If you want to play her like the Fury as the OP's setup suggests, then use the Fury. She's much better at it.

The Asari Sentinal's strength is playing her as a debuffer using a high DPS weapon. Spec fully in the Armour and Fitness and her high DR ability makes her work well in this role. In a team, she greatly benefits from having someone else activate her BEs.

Fact is, these are recycled powers, you can criticize that build as an inferior Fury, but if you want to focus on weapons you've got an inferior Destroyer.  If you want to focus on debuffing you've got an inferior Volus Engineer.  The arguments on here about build are indicative of the fact that she is a well-rounded class that is hard to play completely wrong, yet hard to dominate a match with.