120 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

One thing some of you need to realize - is that mages weren't always TAKEN from their families.

Jowan wasn't - that's for sure.

Mages will STILL become possessed by demons after this war is over - and common folk will STILL fear and resent them for their inability to control their powers.

Forbidding access to families was stupid - and making the Circles a gilded cage was stupid... but young mages MUST be removed from society.

1) It's a refuge for mages who are rejected by their parents.

2) It keeps the populace safe from mages who are too weak to resist demons.

3) Provides a unified place of training, a community of like minded people and constant scrutiny from stronger mages.

The new Circles should be like Boarding Schools. Families can visit - children can't leave (even on holidays).

And once you graduate you MUST choose to:

1) Work for the Circle

2) Submit to a Phylactery

Sorry - but Apostates ARE A HUGE PROBLEM in a world where they are constantly enticed by demons.

====

I would rally my town together and exile any and all mages if they were simply all free roaming batteries of corrupting power. ((How? It's called sell all our crops to hire some Templars))

[Xilizhra]

I would rally my town together and exile any and all mages if they were simply all free roaming batteries of corrupting power. ((How? It's called sell all our crops to hire some Templars))

You assume that there'd be any templars left.

[grimkillah]

General User wrote...
Even if the various powers Thedas were to create a whole new international body to run the Circles from scratch, the leadership would still have to non-mages with a vested interest in making sure the Circles perform the functions for which they were created, and putting that sort of organization together would mean involving people with very different ideas on how to carry that out (assuming they could be found in the first place).  The Chantry already has that interest plus a singular vision of how to carry it out.

Chantry is damaged goods, they serve no real usefulness on the mage-templar issue. Their current dogma fail to view mages as anything but a threat to their rules.

[Wulfram]

Xilizhra wrote...

You assume that there'd be any templars left.

If there's demand, there'll be supply.

(Though the Chantry might contest their rights to the brand name)

[Medhia Nox]

Of course there will be Templars.

Every nation in Thedas will want Templars even if the organization is destroyed.

If their weren't Templars - I'd hire a sympathetic mage - or ask the mage to leave, and if he doesn't do that... kill him in his sleep.

People think mages in Thedas are superior... they're not. They're commoners imbued with powers they're NOT ready for.

You can't take the PC and the main supporting cast as examples of every mage - because it isn't. The Codex even says that many mages can't do what the PC can do (not in those words though).

[Xilizhra]

Wulfram wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You assume that there'd be any templars left.

If there's demand, there'll be supply.

(Though the Chantry might contest their rights to the brand name)

If their training methods aren't made public, all they'll have left is mercenaries pretending to have magic powers.

[Fast Jimmy]

In lore, a regular soldier would be ZERO match for an abomination. You'd need the skills of a Templar to contain such a powerful, magical being.

To have a small army of people willing to live all of their lives in the Circle and being on hand would need to pay really well or have some other draw to devote their lives to it. Religion, via the Chantry, provides that draw. Succumbing to lyrium addiction just for a job seems like a crap offer. Suffering lyrium addiction to serve a calling of your Maker... that's a different story.


I'm not against a Mage-run Circle. But having normal soldiers on hand to combat problems would be less than worthless. Which means you need Templars (or, at least, the non-Chantry version of Templars). How THAT works is difficult.

Besides... what Mage would willingly commit themselves to living in the Circle? Maybe for a little while, when they are you and haven't undergone their Harrowing... but ts purpose breaks down once they have freedom.

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: Who's going to 'ban' Templars?

Certainly no sane King who needs an edge against all the violent rogue wizards running around now.

OR - are you promoting wizard oppression of the masses?

[Dirgegun]

syllogi wrote...

The two biggest problems mages face outside of the Circle seem to be controlling their abilities when they're young, and falling to demons at any time. So I think a school that has rigorous standards is necessary, even if that means families have to send their young children away. Should that school system be run by the Chantry? I think at this point, they've lost the authority, and the offshoot organization of Templars obviously doesn't have mages best interests at heart either.

So yeah, Thedas needs a Hogswarts.

^ This.

The problem with the templars is that we haven't been shown enough like Cullen, Thrask, and Templar Carver (the brother and the man the brother was named after), who aren't complete bastards and have a very set idea on what the order stands for and what their duty is -- and that doesn't involve rape and the like, and yes I am looking at you Alrik and Karras.
 
I think Templars are needed (or at least their abilities are needed) if a mage ever goes rogue and turns criminal, or practices blood magic, but the way the order is used at the moment doesn't work. Absolute power often corrupts absolutely? Something like that. 

A Thedas Hogwarts would work. Mages do need to go through the Harrowing, but perhaps with more preperations? There also needs to be a way to better choose who is in charge or something, whether they're a mage or not. I know I lost respect for Irving when I found that one codex that spoke about how he had tricked apprentices to look into forbidden magics just to see if they had an affiliation with it. >:/

[Chaos Lord Malek]

KainD wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

All the way Slaanesh. Sex for the Sex god, porn for the porn throne!

How does a Slaanesh worshiper come up with such solutions is beyond me lol. 

Well, the alternative would be to put all the mages into restrains and use them as sex slaves. Which would be pretty nice, but it doesn't sounds like something that Inquisition would do.


EDIT: Maybe if dwarfs would come up with some kind of machine, that would be powered up by mages, we could stuck them up in it, and use them as *generators*. Which would be pretty good as well - as they would be sacrificed for progress in technology. Still they would need to have a thing, that would prevent demons from possessing them, while inside the machines.

Modifié par Chaos Lord Malek, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .

[WotanAnubis]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Who's going to 'ban' Templars?

Certainly no sane King who needs an edge against all the violent rogue wizards running around now.

Alistair, apparently. In his cameo in DA2, it's pretty clear that the King of Ferelden extends a guarding hand over any apostates that may be about. He's not about to storm the Cirlces and war with the Chantry, but he does seem to be protecting uncontrolled mages without the use of Templars. And apparently Ferelden hasn't collapsed yet or utnred into a magocracy. King Alistair is pretty popular actually.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

It would have to be independent, significantly less restrictive, and probably set up to let the mages interact more effectively with the world as a whole.

That's obvious, at least in the model I proposed.

Modifié par hhh89, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:15 .

[Vandicus]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

In lore, a regular soldier would be ZERO match for an abomination. You'd need the skills of a Templar to contain such a powerful, magical being.

To have a small army of people willing to live all of their lives in the Circle and being on hand would need to pay really well or have some other draw to devote their lives to it. Religion, via the Chantry, provides that draw. Succumbing to lyrium addiction just for a job seems like a crap offer. Suffering lyrium addiction to serve a calling of your Maker... that's a different story.


I'm not against a Mage-run Circle. But having normal soldiers on hand to combat problems would be less than worthless. Which means you need Templars (or, at least, the non-Chantry version of Templars). How THAT works is difficult.

Besides... what Mage would willingly commit themselves to living in the Circle? Maybe for a little while, when they are you and haven't undergone their Harrowing... but ts purpose breaks down once they have freedom.

Well serving the Maker no doubt has its draw. It is worthy of note that becoming a templar, and eventually a knight seems to be a way for the lower class to move up in the world. Keran comes to mind, coming from a family that largely relies on his income.

[The Elder King]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

In lore, a regular soldier would be ZERO match for an abomination. You'd need the skills of a Templar to contain such a powerful, magical being.

To have a small army of people willing to live all of their lives in the Circle and being on hand would need to pay really well or have some other draw to devote their lives to it. Religion, via the Chantry, provides that draw. Succumbing to lyrium addiction just for a job seems like a crap offer. Suffering lyrium addiction to serve a calling of your Maker... that's a different story.
I'm not against a Mage-run Circle. But having normal soldiers on hand to combat problems would be less than worthless. Which means you need Templars (or, at least, the non-Chantry version of Templars). How THAT works is difficult.
Besides... what Mage would willingly commit themselves to living in the Circle? Maybe for a little while, when they are you and haven't undergone their Harrowing... but ts purpose breaks down once they have freedom.

The non mages in the organization I proposed should have templars abilities, yes.
This thread is meant to know if the mages followers will ne fine with this model. Of course, we might not have this model option in the game.

[Medhia Nox]

@WotanAnubis: Well, there will never be a game where Alistair will ever be a king - because the man is a pitiful spoiled brat.

[grimkillah]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

Well, the alternative would be to put all the mages into restrains and use them as sex slaves. Which would be pretty nice, but it doesn't sounds like something that Inquisition would do.

Well if you look back to Spanish Inquisition and how much sexual perversion they got into, you never know

[The Elder King]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@WotanAnubis: Well, there will never be a game where Alistair will ever be a king - because the man is a pitiful spoiled brat.

DA2 had Alistair as king, though not canon. And if Bioware will ever make a canon, there are high chances for this to happen, as show in some comics.
Regardless, I fail to see how Alistair could be considered spoiled.

[Xilizhra]

hhh89 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It would have to be independent, significantly less restrictive, and probably set up to let the mages interact more effectively with the world as a whole.

That's obvious, at least in the model I proposed.

In that case, I'll consider it. Though I can't promise anything else.

[grimkillah]

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It would have to be independent, significantly less restrictive, and probably set up to let the mages interact more effectively with the world as a whole.

That's obvious, at least in the model I proposed.

In that case, I'll consider it. Though I can't promise anything else.

My homestead system is better

[Medhia Nox]

@hhh89: I don't know about "high chances" - and if having your kingdom be a haven for apostates doesn't come and bite the king of moron's in the arse - then I will say that Ferelden just has plot armor.

We have one example of a non-circle trained apostate functioning properly... and Morigan is trained by a dragon god uber-mage.

I can't wait for Ferelden to be filthy with abominations.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It would have to be independent, significantly less restrictive, and probably set up to let the mages interact more effectively with the world as a whole.

That's obvious, at least in the model I proposed.

In that case, I'll consider it. Though I can't promise anything else.

Considering that I thought your group would've been against this, this is a success already.

[grimkillah]

Bethany was trained by an apostate, and she is quite normal person.

[WotanAnubis]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@hhh89: I don't know about "high chances" - and if having your kingdom be a haven for apostates doesn't come and bite the king of moron's in the arse - then I will say that Ferelden just has plot armor.

We have one example of a non-circle trained apostate functioning properly... and Morigan is trained by a dragon god uber-mage.

I can't wait for Ferelden to be filthy with abominations.

Tevinter is ruled by slave-keeping blood mages and yet it's not overrun by abominations. Every single Dalish Keeper is an apostate and yet the Dalish haven't been slaughtered by abominations.

Also, we don't actually know what Flemeth really is (and I hope we never find out).

But what is clear is that the highest amount of abominations can be found in those tightly controlled Circles that rob mages of all hope and prospects and practically drive mages into the arms of demons promising them a better life. Strangely, brutal oppression drives people to desperate acts that are counter to the goals of the oppressors. Who'd have thought?

[The Elder King]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@hhh89: I don't know about "high chances" - and if having your kingdom be a haven for apostates doesn't come and bite the king of moron's in the arse - then I will say that Ferelden just has plot armor.

We have one example of a non-circle trained apostate functioning properly... and Morigan is trained by a dragon god uber-mage.

I can't wait for Ferelden to be filthy with abominations.

:huh:I was referring to the topic that Alistair might be king in a game. I didn't express my opinion of Alistair as a king.
Anora and Alistair rule together in my canon playthrough, since I thought that having only one of them ad ruler will lead to huge issues.

Modifié par hhh89, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:34 .

[Medhia Nox]

@WotanAnubis: You, like so many zealots on the mage side, assume I'm Pro-Circle.

No - I'm Pro-Reform which is NOT the same as Pro-Rebellion (especially when that rebellion has ANYTHING to do with blood magic.) 

===

Tevinter's mages are HIGHLY trained - so highly trained that if you can't cut it, you die. And we don't know how many abominations cause problems in Tevinter - because we know next to nothing about them.

The Keepers are HIGHLY trained - by other keepers.

And that's why I threw in all those titles for Flemeth - because, while we don't know "what" she is, we do know that she's far beyond any 'common mage'.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 octobre 2012 - 01:35 .