65 réponses à ce sujet

[Sanunes]

steph285 wrote...

Closure is the main thing i want, more than a cameo. Does he/she die from the taint something else? Does (s)he ride to the sunset with the LI. Not that i am against a cameo or something, in fact i have scene in mind with the Inquisitor PC and leliana meeting the warden, but it would be diffiicult to get it right.

I really don't think people would deal well closure of our previous characters, if people have a hard time with the loss of Shepard even with it being something BioWare has said it would be doing since Mass Effect 1, I just can't see them giving real closure to The Warden and Hawke.

[Rune-Chan]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

Giving the Warden/Hawke a default face is simply not an option.

The developers said they wanted to do it well, if at all, partially as a reward for people who faithfully imported their saves from Origins/DA2. Giving the characters a default face would, on the contrary, be an insult to these longterm players, completely destroying any sense of world consistency for them. Better not to do it at all in that scenario.

A default look where the face is obscured would be acceptable, as long as there was a different appearance for each class/gender.

Perhaps you ought to read the part where I specifically stated that I was not talking about appearance:

Machines Are Us wrote...
So what could they do? Make them all the same? Make a few variations of what they are like? (I am not talking about appearances, as we know that can be done)

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 25 octobre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Sol Downer]

vortex216 wrote...

In my head, bringing them back is not hard. First, recustomize their faces. Imagine (for the warden) Many characterizing words on the screen. Select 3 of those, and you got a generel personality type that probably isn't too different from the Warden in origins. For Hawke, just click on the leaf, happy face, or fist.

Quoted because I see this a lot, but this is the first one to suggest selecting a general personality type. Note that it doesn't mean "pick one of three" like with Hawke as the Warden could have...what...twenty personalities!

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

Sanunes wrote...

steph285 wrote...

Closure is the main thing i want, more than a cameo. Does he/she die from the taint something else? Does (s)he ride to the sunset with the LI. Not that i am against a cameo or something, in fact i have scene in mind with the Inquisitor PC and leliana meeting the warden, but it would be diffiicult to get it right.

I really don't think people would deal well closure of our previous characters, if people have a hard time with the loss of Shepard even with it being something BioWare has said it would be doing since Mass Effect 1, I just can't see them giving real closure to The Warden and Hawke.

Maybe. DAO and DAA epilougue had a satisfectory end for the warden, the way i see it. The should have left it at that for the warden rather then have him disappear. I dont mind it with Hawke since it fits the story, the warden has little to no stake in it.

[Maclimes]

I don't understand the "closure" argument for the Warden. His/her story was pretty well wrapped up, wasn't it? Can't you just imagine whatever comes next?

Hawke, I'll grant you, left it pretty weirdly open-ended. But I feel the Warden's story was closed already.

[Bob Garbage]

I agree, it'd be impossible to do without totally ****ing up the majority of people's characters, especially the Warden as it wasn't voiced and a lot of what we put into that character was actually done in our heads. I can see Hawke being a bit of a possibility as he/she is a bit more predictable and linear, at least enough so I think a brief cameo could be pulled off. But I think people are being a bit ridiculous with what they think can be imported to a new game and have it not be a total mess. The most important thing about a Dragon Age game is story, and the only thing I care about being imported into DA3 is the world my Warden/Hawke created.

[Bob Garbage]

The only thing that needs closure really is the Morrigan/Flemeth business.

[Sol Downer]

Maclimes wrote...

I don't understand the "closure" argument for the Warden. His/her story was pretty well wrapped up, wasn't it? Can't you just imagine whatever comes next?

Hawke, I'll grant you, left it pretty weirdly open-ended. But I feel the Warden's story was closed already.

"And he disappeared with Leliana..."

Sadly, I did imagine this happened, but this was completely screwed up since Leliana made a cameo. Now I'm vanished.

[Bob Garbage]

Maybe Leliana's cameo happened when the Warden was in Amaranthine? Hah, go with that.

[JWvonGoethe]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Perhaps you ought to read the part where I specifically stated that I was not talking about appearance:

Machines Are Us wrote...
So what could they do? Make them all the same? Make a few variations of what they are like? (I am not talking about appearances, as we know that can be done)

I did not miss that part - I read the opening post and every reply before posting, as I always make a point of doing before replying to a new topic (even on the human protag topics.) I simply did not take this one sentence, placed in parenthesis, as an indiction that discussion of the Warden/Hawke's appearances were off limits. I was not replying to your opening post, but to other people before me who had already discussed the issue of imported facial appearances (among them RinpocheShnozberry, Mariel800, vortex226.)

Regardless, I apologise if you feel I went off topic. I actually thought your original post was interesting, thoughtful and well-written. However, if you want my thoughts on your original post, it is that I find discussion of the Warden/Hawke's imported personality to be an issue that is just too clouded in speculation to be able to comment on.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:31 .

[Sol Downer]

Bob Garbage wrote...

Maybe Leliana's cameo happened when the Warden was in Amaranthine? Hah, go with that.

What's the time gap between Awakening and DA2's ending? And why specifically state that the Warden and Hawke are missing? Just to be clear I'm not being confrontational, I just really want these questions answered, specifically the first one so I'm not off when I talk about the years that've passed.

Modifié par Ultimashade, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:36 .

[Bob Garbage]

Awakening is several months after the end of the Blight, and Hawke ends up in Kirkwall near the end of the Blight...so by the time you see Leliana in DA2 I guess it's been a couple years. Yeah, the timeline doesn't really work out, but it doesn't work out for even in game content like...how the **** do you meet Anders in act 1, if he's supposed to be with the Warden at that time? But that's just how it goes I guess.

[Heimdall]

Ultimashade wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

Maybe Leliana's cameo happened when the Warden was in Amaranthine? Hah, go with that.

What's the time gap between Awakening and DA2's ending? And why specifically state that the Warden and Hawke are missing? Just to be clear I'm not being confrontational, I just really want these questions answered, specifically the first one so I'm not off when I talk about the years that've passed.

. Awakening occurred between the prologue of Dragon Age 2 and the beginning of act one, hence Ander's appearance.

[Rune-Chan]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

It is that I find discussion of the Warden/Hawke's imported personality to be an issue that is just too clouded in speculation to be able to comment on.

A very valid point, but the reason that I bring it up is that games are pretty much "unable" to be altered around 9 months before release (according to Epic games), because by then the core game is pretty much done and they are working on the final details.

Therefore now is really the best time to start with suggestions and requests for what we'd like in the game, because there is still time for them to consider ideas.

A lot of people tend to do suggestion threads a couple of months before a game has gone gold, and by then it is far too late.

I also apologise if I came across as condescending in my remark. I have gotten somewhat used to people not bothering to read all of the things I say before replying so sometimes I get a little presumptious.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:56 .

[JWvonGoethe]

Ultimashade wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

Maybe Leliana's cameo happened when the Warden was in Amaranthine? Hah, go with that.

What's the time gap between Awakening and DA2's ending? And why specifically state that the Warden and Hawke are missing? Just to be clear I'm not being confrontational, I just really want these questions answered, specifically the first one so I'm not off when I talk about the years that've passed.

Awakenings and DA2 timelines don't make a lot of sense. Best not to think about them too much or your head will hurt.

Seriously, though, if you do want to know more about this issue, there is some discussion of the issue on page 8 of this thread - 

http://social.biowar...ndex/14559402/8

It's in response to a question from David Gaider (lead writer on DA:O), about what people perceive to be the problem wth timelines in DA2. Scroll down to Foolsfolly's reply for the best response. The discussion continues for several pages afterwards.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:17 .

[Sol Downer]

If I remember right Hawke worked off their debt for a few years, so I guess I see why Anders would appear, Awakening had been over for the longest time before Hawke tried to get in to the Deep Roads. Still though, I refuse to accept the fact the Warden somehow disappeared, not even Hawke being gone can fit in my head just right...why would the viscount leave?

EDIT: Regardless, this is off-topic. Ignore me.

Modifié par Ultimashade, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:59 .

[SHODAN24601277]

The timing, as I see it, has Awakening (6 months after Origins) occurring during Hawke's year of service with the mercs or smugglers. Act 1 is, I think, in 9:31 Dragon, Act 2 is in 9:34, and Act 3, when Leliana appears, is in 9:37. I'm also under the impression that Varric's interrogation is in 9:40.

As for how to do Hawke and the warden, Hawke is probably the easiest since all they have to do is import the personality type and get the VAs back for the lines. One scene with him/her is probably easily done.

As for the warden, I'd say they shouldn't write any dialogue for them, just have the new PC find them as one of the quests, give a quick cut scene where the warden is shown (imported appearance preferable) and then cut away without a shown conversation. No personality needed, it serves as a nod to the silent protagonist of the first game, and the questions about where the warden disappeared to can be answered. Still, as nice as it would be to see those questions answered, they could simply take the easy way out and have the warden disappear to Weishaupt or into the deep roads.

In any case, all of this should only be done if it doesn't interfere with the story of the game. Maybe even as DLC after the main game is released so they can work the bugs out of any character importation issues.

[Rune-Chan]

Ultimashade wrote...

If I remember right Hawke worked off their debt for a few years, so I guess I see why Anders would appear, Awakening had been over for the longest time before Hawke tried to get in to the Deep Roads. Still though, I refuse to accept the fact the Warden somehow disappeared, not even Hawke being gone can fit in my head just right...why would the viscount leave?

EDIT: Regardless, this is off-topic. Ignore me.

To be honest, I feel that discussing where and when they would be in relation to the time-line is somewhat on-topic, as it can be perfectly revelent to where they might be at the time-line in DA3.

As for why the Viscount would leave. They basically murdered the leader of both the Circle and the Templars. The Chantry was blown up, and overall, Hawke would have a lot to answer for. It's why Cassandra is looking for them. They assume that Hawke started the war.

This actually means that there is a rather large opening in the third game that Hawke could fill. My issue with the idea is having a previously player controlled character being taken over as an NPC, but at the same time, Hawke as a main character would not necessarily work, because he/she would basically start off the game (or in the time between the two) as Enemey No.1.

[JWvonGoethe]

Machines Are Us wrote...

A very valid point, but the reason that I bring it up is that games are pretty much "unable" to be altered around 9 months before release (according to Epic games), because by then the core game is pretty much done and they are working on the final details.

Therefore now is really the best time to start with suggestions and requests for what we'd like in the game, because there is still time for them to consider ideas.

A lot of people tend to do suggestion threads a couple of months before a game has gone gold, and by then it is far too late.

I also apologise if I came across as condescending in my remark. I have gotten somewhat used to people not bothering to read all of the things I say before replying so sometimes I get a little presumptious.

For what it's worth, I agree that now is the best time to be bringing up such issues, to stand the greatest chance of influencing the game.

But there is something of a catch-22 in that it is also the time where we know the least about dialogue dystems, import systems, how the engine will be used and the storyline. Without knowing these details, it is almost impossible to comment on specifics about a possible Warden/Hawke presence in game. Regardless, I'll state that if I were to see them, they would need to have some significant relationship to the storyline, and not contradict their personalities as they were portrayed (by the player) in previous games. How this could be done, I have no idea.

Don't worry about our disagreement - I overreacted, and I understand what you mean about people not reading posts before they reply.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:24 .

[FINE HERE]

Ultimashade wrote...

If I remember right Hawke worked off their debt for a few years, so I guess I see why Anders would appear, Awakening had been over for the longest time before Hawke tried to get in to the Deep Roads. Still though, I refuse to accept the fact the Warden somehow disappeared, not even Hawke being gone can fit in my head just right...why would the viscount leave?

EDIT: Regardless, this is off-topic. Ignore me.

I thought it was just 1 year.

Back on topic, I agree. And I don't want to see either of my characters as a companion.
My human noble warden was a kind-hearted, shy and sheltered woman. My dalish elf warden was a hardened, 'I hate all shems,' warrior who mourned the loss of Tamlen up until Alistair profecessed his love and she became a dedicated warden. My mage elf warden cared only about knowledge and her freedom and helping Zevran keep his. My dwarf noble wanted to see the surface and avoid the stuffy, caste-divided Dwarven world with his new favorite drinking buddy Oghren.

My Hawkes weren't all the different: One mage Hawke who was snarky and one rogue Hawke who was diplomatic. They've both given up on helping people since they're terrible at it.

How is Bioware going to show those personalities for every created character? It'll be impossible to please everyone, especially those who want to see their warden exactly as they made them. I'd rather the warden and Hawke were mentioned by side-characters and never shown.

[Rune-Chan]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...
A very valid point, but the reason that I bring it up is that games are pretty much "unable" to be altered around 9 months before release (according to Epic games), because by then the core game is pretty much done and they are working on the final details.

Therefore now is really the best time to start with suggestions and requests for what we'd like in the game, because there is still time for them to consider ideas.

A lot of people tend to do suggestion threads a couple of months before a game has gone gold, and by then it is far too late.

I also apologise if I came across as condescending in my remark. I have gotten somewhat used to people not bothering to read all of the things I say before replying so sometimes I get a little presumptious.

For what it's worth, I agree that now is the best time to be bringing up such issues, to stand the greatest chance of influencing the game.

But there is something of a catch-22 in that it is also the time where we know the least about dialogue dystems, import systems, how the engine will be used and the storyline. Without knowing these details, it is almost impossible to comment on specifics about a possible Warden/Hawke presence in game. Regardless, I'll state that if I were to see them, they would need to have some significant relationship to the storyline, and not contradict their personalities as they were present in previous games. How this could be done, I have no idea.

Don't worry about our disagreement - I over-reacted, and I understand what you mean about people not reading posts before they reply.

I understand what you mean, after all, people are writing off the game already despite knowing nothing about it just because X feature will still make "some kind" of appearance, or because you cannot pick race for example.

Unfortunately for all involved (and especially the team making it), they can't give too much away at this point, but at the same time it's the best time for feedback. By the time we start seeing demo levels, most of the major stuff will have already been decided.

I guess the best we can do is just list the kind of things we do like the idea of, and hope they can work with the feedback as much as possible.

[Sol Downer]

FINE HERE wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

If I remember right Hawke worked off their debt for a few years, so I guess I see why Anders would appear, Awakening had been over for the longest time before Hawke tried to get in to the Deep Roads. Still though, I refuse to accept the fact the Warden somehow disappeared, not even Hawke being gone can fit in my head just right...why would the viscount leave?

EDIT: Regardless, this is off-topic. Ignore me.

I thought it was just 1 year.

Back on topic, I agree. And I don't want to see either of my characters as a companion.
My human noble warden was a kind-hearted, shy and sheltered woman. My dalish elf warden was a hardened, 'I hate all shems,' warrior who mourned the loss of Tamlen up until Alistair profecessed his love and she became a dedicated warden. My mage elf warden cared only about knowledge and her freedom and helping Zevran keep his. My dwarf noble wanted to see the surface and avoid the stuffy, caste-divided Dwarven world with his new favorite drinking buddy Oghren.

My Hawkes weren't all the different: One mage Hawke who was snarky and one rogue Hawke who was diplomatic. They've both given up on helping people since they're terrible at it.

How is Bioware going to show those personalities for every created character? It'll be impossible to please everyone, especially those who want to see their warden exactly as they made them. I'd rather the warden and Hawke were mentioned by side-characters and never shown.

Ehh...that's not my preference, but as long as the Warden and Hawke aren't KILLED off-screen then I suppose I could deal with it. But seriously, who wouldn't want to see this awesome armor again! Actually...I recall having black and red armor...

[DeathScepter]

i do like this thread

[gw2005]

 Well the warden/hawke COULD appear at the very begining, dual, and both die. And that'll be the end of them both. AND they both appeared. Everybody's happy.

trolololol

[Sol Downer]

Ah....no.