46 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

As is usual things boil down to a Templar vs mage vs chanty debate. All the while forgetting the common man, the farmer, the villager, the black smith, the tavern owner and how high level decisions affect them.

[Medhia Nox]

@Beerfish: Not true - I am completely concerned with how non-mages are treated during this war.

It is why - as a mage player - I cannot, in good conscience - side with the mages. They must be put down to protect the people from them.

Too many of the mage side support Blood Magic - and blood magic is in direct opposition of the best interests of non-mages.

[Vandicus]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...



it just willingly to get possessed, or forcibly get possessed. That is all. And if willingly there is a solution, group of Mages going into the Fade and kill the demon. there is only a LITTLE chance that a Mage possessed forcibly, unless if THEY ARE GOING THROUGH HARROWING, that is forcing a mage to get possessed and see if can resist it

Uldred didn't want to be possessed. He summoned a demon to aid him against the other faction of the Circle. He was forcibly possessed.

That is why the only option is to kill him (in which Templar themselves failed to do so and run as cowards)

Lots of templars died trying to stop Uldred. As of the time the Warden arrives they're preparing to charge into the breach with high chance of death in order to stop the threat. You're being awfully dismissive of their sacrifices and willingness to sacrifice their own lives for the good of others.

if they use Lithany of Andralla, in which they kept secretly in store room, there is no problem.

Lithany is THE KEY to fight against abomination Uldred, but well...why keep it in the store room? They run away, close shut the door, and calling for Right of Anulment reinforcement killing everybody inside...that is coward move.

Uldred is just one person. And it is proven not all mages can become abomination in the top of the tower, they are FORCED to become one.

And there are a lot of TEMPLARS WHO GOT POSSESSED including the senior one in 2nd tower.

the question is, how come there are A LOT OF BLOOD MAGES in Circle? That show the Templar FAILED, the system FAILED

The Litany only prevents mind control. The templars available were clearly getting their collective asses kicked. Their magic negation abilities do not work against blood magic. Uldred has already force converted a number of mages into abominations that the Warden fights his way through to reach the top of the tower.

Seriously it shouldn't be necessary to explain all the events of a game you actually played through. There wasn't a whole lot of blood mages at the Circle in Fereldan. There was the original abomination, Uldred, who then turned a bunch of other mages into abominations.

The Right of Annulment is specifically designed to deal with situations like where abominations seize control of a Circle. That's why they were going to use it.

[The Elder King]

Nizaris1 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...


Uldred didn't want to be possessed. He summoned a demon to aid him against the other faction of the Circle. He was forcibly possessed.

That is why the only option is to kill him (in which Templar themselves failed to do so and run as cowards)

You missed my point. You said that there are little chances of a forcible possession, which isn't true.
And abomination are constantly described as immensely powerful, one able to annihilate a village. Templars aren't that much a threat for a single abomination, and there were countless in the Circle. And yet lot of them died trying to stop them.

[SgtElias]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Origins showed that there were good people in the Order of Templars who believed that they were doing the right thing, but if the opportunity arises to help mages maintain their autonomy, I'll fight for their cause. I play mage characters; while they aren't the same, they do disagree with the Chantry controlled Circles.

Pretty much this. My first playthrough is always a female human mage, and subsequent characters tend to lean pro-mage fairly heavily.

Even if it's not the main focus of the next game, I'm excited to see where the writers are taking the Mage/Templar war. I'm itching to participate in it, and hopefully bring about some sort of reform for mages.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

The more mage love, the better.

[FenrirBlackDragon]

I support anyone on both sides who can be compassionate, rational, and fair.

[Shadow Fox]

Beerfish wrote...

As is usual things boil down to a Templar vs mage vs chanty debate. All the while forgetting the common man, the farmer, the villager, the black smith, the tavern owner and how high level decisions affect them.

To me these topics generally boil down to pragmastism vs idealism.

[The Elder King]

Nizaris1 wrote...


No, you who miss the point. Uldred become an abomination AFTER meddling with demonology. IF HE DIDN'T summon the demon, there is little chance he got possessed. See it? He only get possessed because he learn such thing and get f**ked up.

Similar case with Connor. The difference is Connor willingly made a pact with the demon after reading Jowan's book. That is why he can be saved by entering the Fade and kill the demon possessed him. if he didn't read Jowan' book and made dealing with the demon, he will not get possessed

Now the chance to get possessed FORCIBLY is so little.

BUT the Chantry who ALLOW a practice making Mages get possessed by force through the Harrowing. Don't you see? They just twist the fact that Mages have only little chance to get possessed forcibly.

First, your point would assume that blood magic (since most of mages learn it from demons) and demonology would be banned, with not every mage followers think it's right.
Second, mages  themselves have said that they should be always be careful, because there is always the risk of being possessed. So the mages are ignorant of their own situation?

[labargegrrrl]

it seems to me, when i remember codexes (please forgive me for not making direct references/links and assuming you know the right ones) the circle was supposed to have started to give the mages more freedom/safety, not less. a place they could actually use magic (which in the divine's lands, had pretty much been forbidden to them AT ALL) and also be safe from the hostile masses. (at the time, they were still VERY raw from overthrowing the ti, and prone to grab a pitchfork at the slightest provocation).

circles were initially supposed to be safe, nurturing places for the magi.

unfortunately, it just didn't work right due to a LOT systemic issues and failures in the checks and balances. when that happens in any institution (but especially those that tend to be closed systems, rather than open systems) it's going to implode on itself.

long story short...

old system broken. need a new one.

[Dave of Canada]

 Should we expect this thread to go down a similar route to the last one?

[labargegrrrl]

Dave of Canada wrote...

 Should we expect this thread to go down a similar route to the last one?

  how did i not see that?  excuse me while i go and bang my head against a wall for being a moron.

[Quicksilver26]

Word to big bird.Mages for life!

[Mello]

Dave of Canada wrote...

 Should we expect this thread to go down a similar route to the last one?

Yes, yes we should. 

[Solmanian]

I give you tevinter to consider.Those with power will allways consider those without it as lesser man. Might makes right is not just a saying: many believe that merely possessing the power also confers the authority to use it. Power is addictive, having some instantly gives you the craving to have more; and if the price for it is sacrifice of "normal" people, many will gladly pay it.

Yes, there are good mages and bad mages, same is for templars aswell. But a bad mage can drop fireballs... There is a reason every civilization has some sort of police force - allowing people to police themselves is a sure path to anarchy.

While I despise the chantry, for the fact they try to impose their religion, for their occasssional corruption and mercilessness, I also remember that the original templars were an order of knights dedicated to the eradication of mages, and it was the chantry who tempered their wrath and turned both them and the mages to productive members of society.

A rogue mage is a disaster waiting to happen: if discovered the simple folk willl likely form a mob to burn him as is their way. Or worse he will use his powers for evil, to control and terrorrise the good folk of the kingdom. And even worse allow a foothold for the ruinous powers of the fade.

The harrowing is a trial by fire: dealing with the deamons of the fade is something mages must contend with every night when they sleep. Those who can't resist them must be put to the sword or made tranquile, for they will surely become abominations incapable of untold destruction.

Only a fool thinks that the templars war is against the mages, for in fact it is against the deamons that seek to invade our reality. Every mage is gateway for the deamons, and in a siege (and have no doubt, our reality is under siege) every gate must be either secured (circle) or sealed (trnquilazation or death).

[Fyurian2]

Parmida wrote...

I hate bad and extremist Mages and Templars and I love good and reasonable Mages and Templars and, Cullen!<3

I have to admit that between the Mage Origin and DA2, Cullen certainly comes across as quite a reasonable Templar.
Yes, his trust in Mages took a severe battering with what he experienced in Ferelden, but at least he had the balls and sense to at least once stand against Meredith when it mattered.

[Solmanian]

Dave of Canada wrote...

 Should we expect this thread to go down a similar route to the last one?

Well, since it's since it's the same OP, making the same arguments, it's pretty inevitable.