985 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

[jtav]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Let me ask you a question. If someone took control of you body or put a geis on you and you a made to kill billions of people.....Whois at fautl, the person who put the geis on you or you?

It's a false comparison Dreman - the Reapers were given a troubling mandate it's true, but they act autonomously (as evidenced by their betrayal of the Leviathan's).

The minds of those used to create the Reapers still exist within those Reapers. They are being mind controlled by the Catalyst. If not for the Catalyst's directives, the Reapers would not do what they do. I'd prefer to kill them if it could be avoided.

[Xilizhra]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Again, I don't see how trust matters, because the only hope the galaxy has for survival at all is if the Catalyst is trustworthy. If it's not, nothing I do will matter.

Ok, so what if those final choices are being misrepresented?

Then, if I take any of them, I'll be dead.

And say one of those choices was misrepresented in a way that actually hindered the (albeit wasted) fight against the Reapers?

Then all it'll do is make everyone die slightly more quickly. The difference will be minimal. And I don't see why the Reapers would set it up as a trap when they're already winning.

[AlanC9]

Fandango9641 wrote...


It's a false comparison Dreman - the Reapers were given a troubling mandate it's true, but they act autonomously (as evidenced by their betrayal of the Leviathan's).

Is that evidence of autonomy, or programming? Do Reapers actually have any more free will than indoctrinated people do?

(Don't ask me-- I don't think free will is all that rational a concept in the first place, though it's a useful myth as a means of social control)

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Let me ask you a question. If someone took control of you body or put a geis on you and you a made to kill billions of people.....Whois at fautl, the person who put the geis on you or you?

It's a false comparison Dreman - the Reapers were given a troubling mandate it's true, but they act autonomously (as evidenced by their betrayal of the Leviathan's).

Do you even know how a reaper is made?

It the same case of having a geis on you. Do you even understand what indoctriantion is?


Add, the issue ofwhat happen to the leviathen is just the catalyst doing what he was programmed to do. Even the leviathens pointed ithat out. In their great arragance in telling the catalsyt to do what ever it take to get the job done...I did what it though is best to get the job do.

This is jus a case of a machine blindly doing what it is told and the command of the user/maker getting bit on the tail by his own orders to it.

[AlanC9]

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Or shooting the tube disables the Crucible, and the kid's trying to trick you into doing it. 

[wright1978]

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Then you would have the chance to try shooting something else. At least if there's a big enough explosion to kill you there's a chance it might do damage to the catalyst. I'm hardly suggesting it's epicly brilliant just better than 2 simple suicides or standing around with your hands in your pockets.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Again, I don't see how trust matters, because the only hope the galaxy has for survival at all is if the Catalyst is trustworthy. If it's not, nothing I do will matter.

Ok, so what if those final choices are being misrepresented?

Then, if I take any of them, I'll be dead.

And say one of those choices was misrepresented in a way that actually hindered the (albeit wasted) fight against the Reapers?

You do realize the crucible was not working before the catalyst showed up and were wipingout the allied fleet.

If your arguement for falling to you death on one side over falling to your death on another side is one side you not of fire as you fall...You don't have much of a point.


What is the issue of losing more in a situation you already lost everything?

[wright1978]

AlanC9 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Or shooting the tube disables the Crucible, and the kid's trying to trick you into doing it. 

The crucible currently isn't functioning so disabling something that it currently is non functional isn't much of an issue.

[Xilizhra]

wright1978 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Then you would have the chance to try shooting something else. At least if there's a big enough explosion to kill you there's a chance it might do damage to the catalyst. I'm hardly suggesting it's epicly brilliant just better than 2 simple suicides or standing around with your hands in your pockets.

No it's not. If I just start shooting at random crap around the room, the odds are extremely low I'd be able to disable this gigantic space station or also giant superweapon with my Carnifex, and it just strikes me as a waste of time if the Catalyst is lying.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Could someone translate? Ta.

Again , I don't see how what I wrote is hard to understand. I'm basicly saying the message of ME is up to the player and people who are upset over the ending is too focus over why they are being ask this extreme question in the end of ME to get it's meaning.

Nope, still don't get it.

You're saying a game, where you control how you play it, the out come of events, and results is based on the players choice is not a story the player decide what the meaning is?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Except, you know, breath scene.

So, no.

[jtav]

I disagree. The Reaperization process alters their minds, else at least some would disagree with the cycle. The Catalyst goes kaboom and they start helping, which should tell you something.

[Demon560]

So the Reapers are innocent because they have species trapped in them, that are just used to create them, and can't be blamed because their creator wish/commands them to Harvest all life, and whatever they did is its' fault, not theirs at all? Really.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Let me ask you a question. If someone took control of you body or put a geis on you and you a made to kill billions of people.....Whois at fautl, the person who put the geis on you or you?

It's a false comparison Dreman - the Reapers were given a troubling mandate it's true, but they act autonomously (as evidenced by their betrayal of the Leviathan's).

Do you even know how a reaper is made?

It the same case of having a geis on you. Do you even understand what indoctriantion is?


Add, the issue ofwhat happen to the leviathen is just the catalyst doing what he was programmed to do. Even the leviathens pointed ithat out. In their great arragance in telling the catalsyt to do what ever it take to get the job done...I did what it though is best to get the job do.

This is jus a case of a machine blindly doing what it is told and the command of the user/maker getting bit on the tail by his own orders to it.

Look, if you are going to make a comparison, at least try to make it relevant. My point is that the Reapers are intelligent, autonomous and nothing like benevolent. Disagree?

It is relevent. A gaie is a curse the make peopele by force do orders. Indoctrination is an an effect on the body that make the person do what the reapers tell them to do. The reaper them selves are indoctrination base on the nature of how they are made. The fallow what ever the catalyst tell them to do because they are indoctrianted.


You don't get this?

[roger_doger92]

The worst part about this thread is that the OP is right. The valid points he makes are the core of what is wrong with Mass Effect 3. Throughout the first two games, the reapers were portrayed as sentient, sovereign entities. But in ME3 they are shown to be nothing but mere puppets. Really takes the fear away -- along with opening the door to the catalyst and the crappy ending.

[Xilizhra]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Except, you know, breath scene.

So, no.

Ah, so now you make a decision with the benefit of hindsight.

[dreman9999]

Demon560 wrote...

So the Reapers are innocent because they have species trapped in them, that are just used to create them, and can't be blamed because their creator wish/commands them to Harvest all life, and whatever they did is its' fault, not theirs at all? Really.

Yep. Think of it like someone mind controling you to do horrible things. Would is at fault you or the person controling you?

Same case as the reapers.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Could someone translate? Ta.

Again , I don't see how what I wrote is hard to understand. I'm basicly saying the message of ME is up to the player and people who are upset over the ending is too focus over why they are being ask this extreme question in the end of ME to get it's meaning.

Nope, still don't get it.

You're saying a game, where you control how you play it, the out come of events, and results is based on the players choice is not a story the player decide what the meaning is?

Is that Greek? Can someone please help?

Now I know you being an ass.

[dreman9999]

roger_doger92 wrote...

The worst part about this thread is that the OP is right. The valid points he makes are the core of what is wrong with Mass Effect 3. Throughout the first two games, the reapers were portrayed as sentient, sovereign entities. But in ME3 they are shown to be nothing but mere puppets. Really takes the fear away -- along with opening the door to the catalyst and the crappy ending.

You do know the Saren was also protray as sentient as well...And he turned out to be just a slave.