985 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

wright1978 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Or shooting the tube disables the Crucible, and the kid's trying to trick you into doing it. 

The crucible currently isn't functioning so disabling something that it currently is non functional isn't much of an issue.

Unless it's just got a long warm-up time. Or it's sitting there waiting for you to use Synthesis or Control and it actually has no Destroy function.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Again, I don't see how trust matters, because the only hope the galaxy has for survival at all is if the Catalyst is trustworthy. If it's not, nothing I do will matter.

Ok, so what if those final choices are being misrepresented?

Then, if I take any of them, I'll be dead.

And say one of those choices was misrepresented in a way that actually hindered the (albeit wasted) fight against the Reapers?

Then all it'll do is make everyone die slightly more quickly. The difference will be minimal. And I don't see why the Reapers would set it up as a trap when they're already winning.

As I thought.

So tell me, why would the catalyst help us work the crusible under a pretence that it's  a trap to trick us to allow ourselves to be harvested if the crucible is already not working  and he can easily harvest us anyway?

[dreman9999]

AlanC9 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Or shooting the tube disables the Crucible, and the kid's trying to trick you into doing it. 

The crucible currently isn't functioning so disabling something that it currently is non functional isn't much of an issue.

Unless it's just got a long warm-up time. Or it's sitting there waiting for you to use Synthesis or Control and it actually has no Destroy function.

If it had a warm up time then refuse would have us winning clearly.
If the crucible only works with control and synthesis then that mean using it is the correct choice any way.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Again, I don't see how trust matters, because the only hope the galaxy has for survival at all is if the Catalyst is trustworthy. If it's not, nothing I do will matter.

Ok, so what if those final choices are being misrepresented?

Then, if I take any of them, I'll be dead.

And say one of those choices was misrepresented in a way that actually hindered the (albeit wasted) fight against the Reapers?

You do realize the crucible was not working before the catalyst showed up and were wipingout the allied fleet.

If your arguement for falling to you death on one side over falling to your death on another side is one side you not of fire as you fall...You don't have much of a point.


What is the issue of losing more in a situation you already lost everything?

You're on your arse Drearyman101 and missing my point again. 

You had a point?I thought you were mindlessly saying the reapers are evil just because and ignoring everything stated about them being made from indoctrinated organics.

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 octobre 2012 - 05:04 .

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Again, I don't see how trust matters, because the only hope the galaxy has for survival at all is if the Catalyst is trustworthy. If it's not, nothing I do will matter.

Ok, so what if those final choices are being misrepresented?

Then, if I take any of them, I'll be dead.

And say one of those choices was misrepresented in a way that actually hindered the (albeit wasted) fight against the Reapers?

Then all it'll do is make everyone die slightly more quickly. The difference will be minimal. And I don't see why the Reapers would set it up as a trap when they're already winning.

As I thought.

So tell me, why would the catalyst help us work the crusible under a pretence that it's  a trap to trick us to allow ourselves to be harvested if the crucible is already not working  and he can easily harvest us anyway?

Are you seriously asking me why it might be in the Catalyst’s best interests to misrepresent those final choices?Golly!

No. I 'm asking you why it would trick us to letting it win if it's going to win any way.

You miss the fact that it could of just left your Shepard to bleed out and just continued the havervest?


I'll be more bluntso you can understand.

Why didn't i just continued with the harvest instead of bring you to the 3 choices?

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Again, I don't see how trust matters, because the only hope the galaxy has for survival at all is if the Catalyst is trustworthy. If it's not, nothing I do will matter.

Ok, so what if those final choices are being misrepresented?

Then, if I take any of them, I'll be dead.

And say one of those choices was misrepresented in a way that actually hindered the (albeit wasted) fight against the Reapers?

You do realize the crucible was not working before the catalyst showed up and were wipingout the allied fleet.

If your arguement for falling to you death on one side over falling to your death on another side is one side you not of fire as you fall...You don't have much of a point.


What is the issue of losing more in a situation you already lost everything?

You're on your arse Drearyman101 and missing my point again. 

You had a point?I thought you were mindlessly saying the reapers are evil just because and ignoring everything stated about them being made from indoctrinated organics.

Look at the post you quoted and try again.

I'm sorry? I can't understand you. Use english.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No. I 'm asking you why it would trick us to letting it win if it's going to win any way.

You miss the fact that it could of just left your Shepard to bleed out and just continued the havervest?


I'll be more bluntso you can understand.

Why didn't i just continued with the harvest instead of bring you to the 3 choices?

Right, so the Crucible has been constructed and Shep is literally standing at the threshold of a new future and you're asking me why the Catalyst might want to intervene? Astonishing!

Yet you have not asked youself why it did not leave you to bleed out and keep  harvesting.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Except, you know, breath scene.

So, no.

Ah, so now you make a decision with the benefit of hindsight.

No. I picked destroy the first time around because I instantly realized this child was manipulating me into going along with his suggestions.

I think I simply misunderstood what you were saying. I see what you mean now. I would still pick destroy no matter what, because there's endless foreshadowing in the games against control/synthesis, and only villain support for it. All my friends and allies tell me my only choice is to destroy.

I know who my moral compass is.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 26 octobre 2012 - 05:18 .

[Demon560]

dreman9999 wrote...

Demon560 wrote...

So the Reapers are innocent because they have species trapped in them, that are just used to create them, and can't be blamed because their creator wish/commands them to Harvest all life, and whatever they did is its' fault, not theirs at all? Really.

Yep. Think of it like someone mind controling you to do horrible things. Would is at fault you or the person controling you?

Same case as the reapers.

the Reapers are Reapers whether we pick control destroy or synthesis, unless the Catalyst says that the Reapers will be released from his control I don't see the difference, they are forever its' slaves.  To me its more of less to my understanding more of a Humunculus/FMA-Brotherhood/ like thing to me than mind control, Father controlled most of the Humunculus, created them out of souls, but what exists now is not the souls themselves, just something that was used to create these things, the species may still be their, but their just their to continue the existance of another.

Not to mention all I heard from the Kid is we Harvest your Body, Knowledge, and Creations, so their's another thing and that knowledge of their civiliazations become conected to us with Synthesis, I see nowhere does it say, I will free the species controlled or any of that mumbo, their still its thralls in the end.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No. I 'm asking you why it would trick us to letting it win if it's going to win any way.

You miss the fact that it could of just left your Shepard to bleed out and just continued the havervest?


I'll be more bluntso you can understand.

Why didn't i just continued with the harvest instead of bring you to the 3 choices?

Right, so the Crucible has been constructed and Shep is literally standing at the threshold of a new future and you're asking me why the Catalyst might want to intervene? Astonishing!

Yet you have not asked youself why it did not leave you to bleed out and keep  harvesting.

On your arse lad.

So you not getting the fact that the crucible was not working before? That was not clear to you?

[dreman9999]

Demon560 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Demon560 wrote...

So the Reapers are innocent because they have species trapped in them, that are just used to create them, and can't be blamed because their creator wish/commands them to Harvest all life, and whatever they did is its' fault, not theirs at all? Really.

Yep. Think of it like someone mind controling you to do horrible things. Would is at fault you or the person controling you?

Same case as the reapers.

the Reapers are Reapers whether we pick control destroy or synthesis, unless the Catalyst says that the Reapers will be released from his control I don't see the difference, they are forever its' slaves.  To me its more of less to my understanding more of a Humunculus/FMA-Brotherhood/ like thing to me than mind control, Father controlled most of the Humunculus, created them out of souls, but what exists now is not the souls themselves, just something that was used to create these things, the species may still be their, but their just their to continue the existance of another.

Not to mention all I heard from the Kid is we Harvest your Body, Knowledge, and Creations, so their's another thing and that knowledge of their civiliazations become conected to us with Synthesis, I see nowhere does it say, I will free the species controlled or any of that mumbo, their still its thralls in the end.

I understand you point but no one is say the reaper can't or should not be killed.  Yes,they are innocent but the does not mean you should hold your blade.

They ar as innocent of there action as a mad dog is.....We still have to put down the mad dog.

Also, the reapers are the minds of races that are uploaded to it...

[dreman9999]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even at the extreme of not trusting the catalyst shooting the tube is still the best choice as it is not doing nothing(refuse) or committing suicide(control/synthesis).

If the thing explodes in your face in the right way, or turns off the mass effect field in the room, you'll still be dead. It's just as suicidal if the Catalyst is lying. Or it might do nothing at all, and be the same as Refuse in the end.

Except, you know, breath scene.

So, no.

Ah, so now you make a decision with the benefit of hindsight.

No. I picked destroy the first time around because I instantly realized this child was manipulating me into going along with his suggestions.

I think I simply misunderstood what you were saying. I see what you mean now. I would still pick destroy no matter what, because there's endless foreshadowing in the games against control/synthesis, and only villain support for it. All my friends and allies tell me my only choice is to destroy.

I know who my moral compass is.

Good. At least your willing to understand that.

[jtav]

I object to the idea that we have to "put them down" when there are other options for safeguarding other species.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No. I 'm asking you why it would trick us to letting it win if it's going to win any way.

You miss the fact that it could of just left your Shepard to bleed out and just continued the havervest?


I'll be more bluntso you can understand.

Why didn't i just continued with the harvest instead of bring you to the 3 choices?

Right, so the Crucible has been constructed and Shep is literally standing at the threshold of a new future and you're asking me why the Catalyst might want to intervene? Astonishing!

Yet you have not asked youself why it did not leave you to bleed out and keep  harvesting.

On your arse lad.

So you not getting the fact that the crucible was not working before? That was not clear to you?

Is this another question about why the Catalyst might be motivated to misrepresent those final solutions or are we going off on another tangent?

In all seriousness, do a better job of making yourself understood – I literally have no idea what you are asking (and not for the first time). Thanks in advance.

I make this more clear for you so you understand.


We are saying the catalyst and the reaper already won and the choices are the best way to tsop them so the galexy can sevive...

You're saying, but what i f the catalyst wants to win with style and is tricking us to let him win.

I trying to point out the fact that you think he may be misrepresenting the choice is countered by the fact he did not even need to give us the offer in the first place.

There is not point to tricking us to let him win because he won any way. 

His goal is not to win, if it was the moment we found out the crucible was not working, the war would of been over.

Also, what is unclear about.."You miss the fact that it could of just left your Shepard to bleed out and just continued the havervest?"

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:42 .

[dreman9999]

jtav wrote...

I object to the idea that we have to "put them down" when there are other options for safeguarding other species.

That's an issue if you willing to do them. Synthesisi is iffy at best because it depends on totaly trusting the catalyst. Control put the galexy on your back on the hopes you can make it better.

[Steelcan]

jtav wrote...

I object to the idea that we have to "put them down" when there are other options for safeguarding other species.

. And by other species I assume you mean the geth.  But with destroy you guarantee the freedom of the most amount of people.  Control puts all races subservient to Shepalyst, Synthesis, I'm not going into that right now.

[jtav]

Of course I trust the Catalyst. I know an exposition dump when I see one.

[Demon560]

dreman9999 wrote...

Demon560 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Demon560 wrote...

So the Reapers are innocent because they have species trapped in them, that are just used to create them, and can't be blamed because their creator wish/commands them to Harvest all life, and whatever they did is its' fault, not theirs at all? Really.

Yep. Think of it like someone mind controling you to do horrible things. Would is at fault you or the person controling you?

Same case as the reapers.

the Reapers are Reapers whether we pick control destroy or synthesis, unless the Catalyst says that the Reapers will be released from his control I don't see the difference, they are forever its' slaves.  To me its more of less to my understanding more of a Humunculus/FMA-Brotherhood/ like thing to me than mind control, Father controlled most of the Humunculus, created them out of souls, but what exists now is not the souls themselves, just something that was used to create these things, the species may still be their, but their just their to continue the existance of another.

Not to mention all I heard from the Kid is we Harvest your Body, Knowledge, and Creations, so their's another thing and that knowledge of their civiliazations become conected to us with Synthesis, I see nowhere does it say, I will free the species controlled or any of that mumbo, their still its thralls in the end.

I understand you point but no one is say the reaper can't or should not be killed.  Yes,they are innocent but the does not mean you should hold your blade.

They ar as innocent of there action as a mad dog is.....We still have to put down the mad dog.

Also, the reapers are the minds of races that are uploaded to it...

This is interesting, now I have to wonder if they actually are corrupted, brainwashed, or just fused with the Catalyst, fun, though if they are brainwashed or have been corrupted, the Reapers still remain in the Guilty parties hands, even in Synthesis since it connects the reapers, Organics, and Synthetics together, this and ceasing harvesting are the only changes that are done to the Reapers, so yeah no hope of those species being freed either way, just endlessly trapped within those thing in an eternal cage, this just seems at best it's a mercy killing in destroy-would anyone like to be caged up forever in anything-, at worst its genocide either way, still poor bastards.