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The Reapers are innocent

Débuté par jtav , oct. 25 2012 05:36

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#926
Guest_Fandango_*
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:04

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Ieldra2 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...
Killing Reapers is not genocide, that's ridiculous.

That is unless you equate the sentient organic beings that were forcibly kidnapped and processed into goo with the Reaper that were used to create. And if that the case, why are you stopping the Reaper cycle at all? You're just the same as you were whether you're a human or part of a Reaper, right?

The lack of differentiation in arguments like this never ceases to amaze me. The Reapers should never have been created, and nobody denies that the Reaperization was evil. However, a Reaper is "billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined". It doesn't matter how they were created, they are valid life. Actually, there is no such thing as "invalid life" at all.  



And if you really care about the sanctity of all life, it makes no sense to force synthesis on trillions of people as an alternative to killing the Reapers.

Again the lack of distinction. I value life, but not any specific biochemical composition thereof. What the hell does it matter if some process changes my DNA into some other stuff with added functionality, as long as I remain who I am? I'm not saying applying this to the whole galaxy isn't problematic, but the idea of the "sanctity of life" is much abused in arguments like yours.



All of which would make some twisted sense if by definition Synthesis didn't already explicitly change 'who you are'. No one has the right to alter the 'specific biochemical composition' of a single, solitary person without their permission, never mind an entire galaxy. As such, Synthesis is most definitely a violation of life (whether you value biochemical diversity or not).

Modifié par Fandango9641, 27 octobre 2012 - 10:28 .

#927
dreman9999
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:15

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Someone With Mass wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

In Control, why would it? Surely you're not saying that the Catalyst's logic was that compelling.

In Synthesis, what is it preserving life from?

How do you reconcile either outcome with the Stargazer?

And are these your real impressions, or are you just making stuff up?


AIs are unpredictable that way.

More synthetics, created by organics that aren't affected by the Catalyst's lame excuse of a solution. You know, when new lifeforms are created on new worlds. Unless Synthesis effectively stops that process, which makes it even more stomach-wrenching.

I can't care less about the Stargazer or what that scene implies. It's just a picture that was blatantly ripped from a quick Google search with dialogues that was inspired by the letter from some middle school kid.

I have several impressions of the endings and could tell you how some of them disgust me, but that's not the topic of this thread.

People are also unpredictictable...Remeber, we had an admeral go out of control and fire on you. Does that me we have to kill every person becasue they my attack you?

#928
jtav
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:19

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People retain their identities post-Synthesis. Most slides are identical to their Destroy version except for the green overlay. The crew and Jacob still grieve.

#929
Guest_Fandango_*
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:26

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jtav wrote...

People retain their identities post-Synthesis. Most slides are identical to their Destroy version except for the green overlay. The crew and Jacob still grieve.


Seeing as Synthesis changes all sentient life in the galaxy as a matter of both mind and body, that is by no means clear. In any case, pointing to those EC slides means very little when one considers that none of this is made clear to Shep prior to making that horrifying choice.

#930
Someone With Mass
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:28

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dreman9999 wrote...
People are also unpredictictable...Remeber, we had an admeral go out of control and fire on you. Does that me we have to kill every person becasue they my attack you?


What does that have to do with anything?

Most people aren't in command of an armada of ancient warships that have the ability to change the entire galaxy.

Also, most people have a sense of morality that AIs are usually ignoring, because they think they have a more practical and logical solution.

#931
dreman9999
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:40

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Someone With Mass wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
People are also unpredictictable...Remeber, we had an admeral go out of control and fire on you. Does that me we have to kill every person becasue they my attack you?


What does that have to do with anything?

Most people aren't in command of an armada of ancient warships that have the ability to change the entire galaxy.

Also, most people have a sense of morality that AIs are usually ignoring, because they think they have a more practical and logical solution.

AI's have a morality. EDI and Legion clearly show you this. But the fact of the matter is the excuse that they being unpredictible and dangerous is somethng that can be used with anyone or being.

Even the concept of morality does not stop this...Look up the crusades and the spanish inquisition....Those are the example of the horrors men can do with the concept of morality.

#932
dreman9999
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 10:41

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jtav wrote...

People retain their identities post-Synthesis. Most slides are identical to their Destroy version except for the green overlay. The crew and Jacob still grieve.

The heritic geth also retained their identity too when we rewrote them.
Saran and TIM retained their identity as well when they were indoctrinated.

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 octobre 2012 - 10:42 .

#933
Sonashi
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 11:02

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dreman9999 wrote...

jtav wrote...

People retain their identities post-Synthesis. Most slides are identical to their Destroy version except for the green overlay. The crew and Jacob still grieve.

1. The heritic geth also retained their identity too when we rewrote them.
2. Saran and TIM retained their identity as well when they were indoctrinated.


Ad. 1

I don't even know where to start with this.
- Their virus can be repurposed. If released into the station's network, the heretics will be rewritten to accept our truth.

Yes, they can upload their memories but that's just brainwashing

Ad. 2

Yes they retained their identity, just by one moment. When they committed suicide.

#934
darthoptimus003
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 11:33

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they are no longer inoccent. the beings that they are made of are dead and goo
they desirve to be put down like the broken rabid dogs they are
i think that the fleets need to destroy them all and have a bbq and a beer when they were done
if you think they are innocent then you are as crazy as the starbrat
"give no mercy for you shall recieve none"

#935
clennon8
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 11:48

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You poor, sad indoctrinated fools. You got tricked. There were a million clues, but you still fell into the trap. All those years of fighting, all those sacrifices you made, for nothing. Victory was in your grasp, and you threw it all away for a fantasy.

Modifié par clennon8, 28 octobre 2012 - 12:35 .

#936
N7Gold
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 11:55

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"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict, or is it doing what it was created to do? We are no different."

To put it simply:

Reapers and Catalyst = Fire

The Leviathans = Arsonists

Why blame the fire for the conflict when it is the arsonists who are truly responsible for the victims that burned in the fire?

#937
Bill Casey
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 12:14

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N7Gold wrote...

"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict, or is it doing what it was created to do? We are no different."


Did you agree with Admiral Xen when she compared Legion to her pistol?

#938
HK-90210
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 12:42

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N7Gold wrote...

"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict, or is it doing what it was created to do? We are no different."

To put it simply:

Reapers and Catalyst = Fire

The Leviathans = Arsonists

Why blame the fire for the conflict when it is the arsonists who are truly responsible for the victims that burned in the fire?


You don't have to blame the fire to know you have to put it out.

#939
AlanC9
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 02:20

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clennon8 wrote...

You poor, sad indoctrinated fools. You got tricked. There were a million clues, but you still fell into the trap. All those years of fighting, all those sacrifices you made, for nothing. Victory was in your grasp, and you threw it all away for a fantasy.


IT is so sad.

#940
AlanC9
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 02:23

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CastonFolarus wrote...
You don't have to blame the fire to know you have to put it out.



True. Only Refusers won't put the fire out.

#941
N7Gold
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 03:45

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CastonFolarus wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict, or is it doing what it was created to do? We are no different."

To put it simply:

Reapers and Catalyst = Fire

The Leviathans = Arsonists

Why blame the fire for the conflict when it is the arsonists who are truly responsible for the victims that burned in the fire?


You don't have to blame the fire to know you have to put it out.


You're right, someone has to put out the fire... and then go after the arsonists.

#942
Xilizhra
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 04:02

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clennon8 wrote...

You poor, sad indoctrinated fools. You got tricked. There were a million clues, but you still fell into the trap. All those years of fighting, all those sacrifices you made, for nothing. Victory was in your grasp, and you threw it all away for a fantasy.

Renegades always say that kind of thing.

#943
Scott Sion
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 04:21

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I still grin from ear to ear as I blow them out of the sky.

#944
Scott Sion
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 04:24

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N7Gold wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict, or is it doing what it was created to do? We are no different."

To put it simply:

Reapers and Catalyst = Fire

The Leviathans = Arsonists

Why blame the fire for the conflict when it is the arsonists who are truly responsible for the victims that burned in the fire?


You don't have to blame the fire to know you have to put it out.


You're right, someone has to put out the fire... and then go after the arsonists.


Are you saying that right after saving the galaxy from near destruction you're going to start another war with near god like creatures? 

#945
N7Gold
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 05:29

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plnero wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict, or is it doing what it was created to do? We are no different."

To put it simply:

Reapers and Catalyst = Fire

The Leviathans = Arsonists

Why blame the fire for the conflict when it is the arsonists who are truly responsible for the victims that burned in the fire?


You don't have to blame the fire to know you have to put it out.


You're right, someone has to put out the fire... and then go after the arsonists.


Are you saying that right after saving the galaxy from near destruction you're going to start another war with near god like creatures? 



I'm not going to start it, they will. They view all life as tools. They want to control us? Over my dead body!

#946
jtav
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 02:22

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Once the Reapers are revealed as uploaded minds, they become an enemy like any any other, not evil machine gods. If they can be freed from Catalyst control and integrated into society, they should be. If not, they ought to be eliminated for the sake of future life. It's that simple.

#947
Banul
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 02:33

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When fire burns, it isn't at war. But its going to burn your house down if you don't put it out.

#948
MegaSovereign
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 02:34

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Banul wrote...

When fire burns, it isn't at war. But its going to burn your house down if you don't put it out.


Yes but think of the insurance money you can collect afterwards.

#949
Samtheman63
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 02:35

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lol at control and synthesis

#950
jtav
Posté 28 octobre 2012 - 02:36

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And all three options end the threat. Fire extinguished.
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