164 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I stand by my claim. Synthesis and Control supporters aren't the ones who constantly claim an ending they don't like shouldn't be in the game, or that those who choose another ending than theirs aren't thinking straight. That particular privilege belongs to a subset of the pro-Destroy faction, and it is a fundamentalist's attitude.

Just imagine if things were the other way round: if obsessive anti-Destroyers constantly barged into any relevant topic yelling that Destroy is evil, people aren't thinking straight for choosing it and that the option to Destroy the Reapers should never have been in the game...

As for the obvious answer "That's different" - no, it's not. It may be hard to believe for some, but I hoped that I could end the war without destroying the Reapers ever since ME1. Granted, the story didn't make it appear likely that such an option would present itself, but it's not as far-fetched as some people make it out to be.

unfortunately, thats not the way decision making works. Basing decision on popular belief isn't really deciding either, as it is just status quo junk.

I feel that synthesis is demanded in the MEU. It's not really a choice at all. But then, none of the so called choices are, they're demands from some unknown quantity. Previous societies, reaper goo tanks/intellect..who knows?

In any event tho, the synthesis option is required IF technology is controlling the MEU. Especially if it is required of them, in the MEU, for evolution. Existence is qualified by the tools used. But if the tools are competitive, that changes the requirments, and opens another door to evoluton. I'm confused as to why folk miss this simple varible in the catalysts petri dish/MEU.

If you want to "live" in the MEU, you must endure this requirement. Otherwise, we just stay home and play video games.

[AlanC9]

Headcount wrote...

Isn't synthesis basically like ending all of earth's problems simply by making everyone white and christian? Great idea unless you are the billions on the other side of the fence.

Not quite. Becoming part synthetic can be an upgrade depending on how it works, but all turning white gets you is susceptibility to sunburn.

[Ieldra]

@Headcount:
No, Synthesis doesn't remove any species diversity. Organic life on Earth is all based on DNA. Tell me, is there no diversity of life on Earth? The only perspective it removes is that of non-Synthesized synthetics, the kind who has no understanding of organics. You may see that as a problem or not, but it certainly isn't "making everyone the same".

And...back to the topic...yeah, those persistent myths are another reason why people still talk about it. They need debunking. The EC clearly shows everyone still has their species identity, and characters do things which seem pretty much in-character for them. So....they've remain who they were.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I never really cared what they canonize.

Though I am beginning to want Synthesis canon for the ensuing nuclear apocalypse on BSN.

Oops, wrong thread! 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Arcian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I continue to talk about Synthesis because it's my ending of choice, OP.

If EDI and the geth could live in Destroy, would you still pick Synthesis?

Yes, I would.

[Sonashi]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Synthesis and Control supporters aren't the ones who constantly claim an ending they don't like shouldn't be in the game, or that those who choose another ending than theirs aren't thinking straight.  

Except when someone picks Destroy because he believes in IT, or because he's headcanoning that only Reapers die. In those cases the Destroyer really isn't thinking straight, and it's OK to call him on it.

So now player is not allowed to headcanon how his/her story ends? Excellent. Maybe you have other, brilliant ideas? Also it's not fair to only judge Destroy supporters. Every side has its own extremists. Look in the mirror before you accuse someone.

[Wayning_Star]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Arcian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I continue to talk about Synthesis because it's my ending of choice, OP.

If EDI and the geth could live in Destroy, would you still pick Synthesis?

Yes, I would.

it's interesting that question were posed with "live" as a variant...  as if that would matter in the scheme of things MEU?

there was no mention of the beings trapped within reaperships tho.. I wonder why?

[Wayning_Star]

Sonashi wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Synthesis and Control supporters aren't the ones who constantly claim an ending they don't like shouldn't be in the game, or that those who choose another ending than theirs aren't thinking straight.  

Except when someone picks Destroy because he believes in IT, or because he's headcanoning that only Reapers die. In those cases the Destroyer really isn't thinking straight, and it's OK to call him on it.

So now player is not allowed to headcanon how his/her story ends? Excellent. Maybe you have other, brilliant ideas? Also it's not fair to only judge Destroy supporters. Every side has its own extremists. Look in the mirror before you accuse someone.

actually, too much head canon is what the story writers shouldn't of done. Too much fall back and the itterence of less facts to decide on in real time. Takes away from the story immersion. Also, if the head canon ending is required, then there is NO end to the story, as folks end up imagining the story, not the story writers. There has to be one moral to a story, or there is an endless supply of 'endings'.  A basic cause for frustration.

Personally, the only debunk I can think of for destroy is that it won't stop the reaper thread. Hasn't for, apparently, for billions of years. According to game lore/history of the cycle as associated with the Prothean codexual entries about the intelligence, associated with the Leviathan. We don't really know if the reapers are the only reapers that existed over the massive time frame involve either. If the Leviathan escaped the harvest, there could be others who have done so as well, i.e. perpetual head canon.

edit: I digress a bit, as the crucible has been used "how many" times in the past? Or attempted to be used? It's not really explained within the game well.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 28 octobre 2012 - 06:45 .

[Wayning_Star]

Arcian wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

it's interesting that question were posed with "live" as a variant...  as if that would matter in the scheme of things MEU?

there was no mention of the beings trapped within reaperships tho.. I wonder why?

Because those "beings" are dead. They have only been used as building blocks to create a form of wetware synthetics. Why? Well, Super MAC needed to explain the need of the harvest in SOME way. He just happened to go with the obvious Matrix ripoff.

Man, I just want to punch that orbital cannon right in the control panel.

But I thought the Leviathan invoked the catalyst to 'save(organic) lives' and also stated that it were acomplishing it's 'designed' goal of doing just that. How would that work if the contents of the reaperships were dead? Why would their intellect and DNA be saved at all? Apparently, the reapers harvest synthetic life as well..for some reason?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wayning_Star wrote...
But I thought the Leviathan invoked the catalyst to 'save(organic) lives' and also stated that it were acomplishing it's 'designed' goal of doing just that. How would that work if the contents of the reaperships were dead? Why would their intellect and DNA be saved at all? Apparently, the reapers harvest synthetic life as well..for some reason?

They harvest synthetic life to preserve them as well since Catalyst views them as life that needs preservation as well. Also, they are alive in some capacity because the Reaper they make has their history/culture stored in it, which makes them an avatar for that race in Synthesis.

[Wayning_Star]

Arcian wrote...

Headcount wrote...

Isn't synthesis basically like ending all of earth's problems simply by making everyone white and christian? Great idea unless you are the billions on the other side of the fence.

Not really. Synthesis, as defined in most dictionaries, would be about merging all ethnicities and religions on the planet to create an entirely new ethnicity and religion.

This is what ME3 went with first, but merging organic and synthetic DNA didn't really make a whole lot of sense, so they went with the second-most nonsensical which is the mass augmentation of organics with technology and the mass updating of synthetics with organic mindsets (?) to ensure they don't kill each other over their differences.

Your analogy would suggest they went with "Now everyone is completely synthetic and has to worship the cylon god".

Actually, it has 0 to do with religion, that might come later as 'peoples' rationalize their charicture of deity. It's really about evolution and merits of utilizing technology with the basis of organic reality. It's more mental as to effect the physical. Metaphysical has yet to notice the differences in a machine to organic contraption. What the differences relate to evolution is the query. Apparently, the need for tools has outgrown it's usfulness in the MEU, more of a liability than an asset. Especially if they talk back at you...

Organics in general don't like ultimatum..unless they're the ones giving them..lol

[Wayning_Star]

Arcian wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

it's interesting that question were posed with "live" as a variant...  as if that would matter in the scheme of things MEU?

there was no mention of the beings trapped within reaperships tho.. I wonder why?

Because those "beings" are dead. They have only been used as building blocks to create a form of wetware synthetics. Why? Well, Super MAC needed to explain the need of the harvest in SOME way. He just happened to go with the obvious Matrix ripoff.

Man, I just want to punch that orbital cannon right in the control panel.

But I thought the Leviathan invoked the catalyst to 'save(organic) lives' and also stated that it were acomplishing it's 'designed' goal of doing just that. How would that work if the contents of the reaperships were dead? Why would their intellect and DNA be saved at all? Apparently, the reapers harvest synthetic life as well..for some reason?

The individuals are dead, but the species is not... technically. With the stored genetic material, they can recreate the species at any time they wish. So, in a sense, it has been "saved".

Really, it's Super MAC logic. It's like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon, wrapped 'round a large gold brick.

Not if destroy is chosen tho... the reaperships cannot be destroyed, if that is the case. So at least we know that the catalyst didn't design the destroy choice within the crucible. Nor the Leviathan, as thats a waste of perfectly good thralls.

I wonder, who engineered that choice?

[clennon8]

A: The sky is blue.
B: No, it's green.
A: What? No, it's clearly blue.
B: No, it isn't. Here. I wrote a very long, semi-scientific essay about how it's actually green. Also, I'm tired of blue. I really want it to be green.
A: But, look at it. It's blue. Can't you see?
B: I am looking at it. I see green. Are you a fundamentalist? Must you prescribe to me that the sky is blue?
A: Huh?  I'm right!
B: That's what fundamentalists always say.

Modifié par clennon8, 28 octobre 2012 - 07:51 .

[Sinekein]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Headcount:
No, Synthesis doesn't remove any species diversity. Organic life on Earth is all based on DNA. Tell me, is there no diversity of life on Earth?

And a Reaper has millions of different DNA's thanks to the civilization that was harvested. So I guess the Reapers are the apex of life, the Leviathans were right, hence, Shepard is the real bad guy of Mass Effect.

[clennon8]

I just knew someone was going to do the "sky has no color" thing.

Then nothing has color. All colors are light refractions being perceived by the brain differently.

But whatever. You're right about the "dancing to Super MAC's artistic tune" part anyway.

Also, inb4 "The sky isn't always blue."

Modifié par clennon8, 28 octobre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Sinekein]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

They harvest synthetic life to preserve them as well since Catalyst views them as life that needs preservation as well. Also, they are alive in some capacity because the Reaper they make has their history/culture stored in it, which makes them an avatar for that race in Synthesis.

And then Javik could make staring contests again with the Prothean Reaper. And everyone was happy. Especially the trillions of Protheans that were so not locked for eternity at all in their Reaper vessel. Their DNA and their Culture was there, they were so totally absolutely happy.

[clennon8]

Arcian wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I just knew someone was going to do the "sky has no color" thing.

Then nothing has color. All colors are light refractions being perceived by the brain differently.

Correct.

clennon8 wrote...

But whatever. You're right about the "dancing to Super MAC's artistic tune" part anyway.

Of course I am. Accepting even one ending, regardless of which one it is, is to accept his vision. We need to stop treating each other as enemies and to stop dividing ourselves into camps following different aspects of the same madness. We need to unite and make BioWare realize that we will not accept Super MAC's franchise-wrecking vision, and that the promises Casey gave us - that this is our universe, where our choices matter - must be fulfilled if the series is to continue.

I mean, there's only so many prequels and sidestories they can do before the Reaper threat becomes stale... well, more stale than it has already become.

Unite how?  I'm already boycotting ME3 content, at least until the entire DLC cycle is complete.

[clennon8]

You mean like the Do the Right Thing thread, which got locked?