55 réponses à ce sujet

[Lennard Testarossa]

ScarMK wrote...
As for the second point, it allows you to change their approval/disapproval (the feast day pranks), to reflect what you believe their reactions to be.

Changing in-game stats to match what players imagine seems a little strange to me. "I imagined taking my group to a dragon's lair and slaying the beast. I looted the hoard and found a dozen items of legendary power and ten thousand sovereigns."...should the game give me the option of receiving the loot?

Tootles FTW wrote...
And for the romance thing, I don't see why I should be blocked from romancing a character unless I make a decision that would fundamentally disgust them - which isn't even the case in DA2, since I can quite easily take Oriana as a slave and yet Fenris will immediately jump into the sack with me afterwards so long as I have a certain % on the F/R scale. To me, that action should have blocked the romance completely - NOT the %.

I, for one, always wanted romance to be completely separate from friendship, rivalry and influence.

[ScarMK]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

ScarMK wrote...
As for the second point, it allows you to change their approval/disapproval (the feast day pranks), to reflect what you believe their reactions to be.

Changing in-game stats to match what players imagine seems a little strange to me. "I imagined taking my group to a dragon's lair and slaying the beast. I looted the hoard and found a dozen items of legendary power and ten thousand sovereigns."...should the game give me the option of receiving the loot?

As long as it's optional I fail to see why not.

[Maria Caliban]

scyphozoa wrote...

It seems like the OP thinks he is being punished for not searching or exploring. While people who enjoy searching and exploring feel like they are being rewarded. Just a matter of perspective. Frankly, I think finding items in the game world is a lot better than just buying gifts from an NPC vendor like DAO.

To be sure, there is a difference between exploring an area and opening every crate.

You can be assured of this. I have a 'the Explorer' title in World of Warcraft, so I am an expert.

But... let's not talk about TOR.

[Tootles FTW]

ScarMK wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

ScarMK wrote...
As for the second point, it allows you to change their approval/disapproval (the feast day pranks), to reflect what you believe their reactions to be.

Changing in-game stats to match what players imagine seems a little strange to me. "I imagined taking my group to a dragon's lair and slaying the beast. I looted the hoard and found a dozen items of legendary power and ten thousand sovereigns."...should the game give me the option of receiving the loot?

As long as it's optional I fail to see why not.

The DA:O Feastday Pack wasn't even in-game content unless you went out of your way to purchase & download it.  I don't see how having this available to the players who WOULD like this option (for RPG purposes or otherwise) effects you personally.  It's simple little fluff items (like the Mass Effect alternate appearance DLCs) that can be taken or left dependent upon your preference.

[ScarMK]

Tootles FTW wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

ScarMK wrote...
As for the second point, it allows you to change their approval/disapproval (the feast day pranks), to reflect what you believe their reactions to be.

Changing in-game stats to match what players imagine seems a little strange to me. "I imagined taking my group to a dragon's lair and slaying the beast. I looted the hoard and found a dozen items of legendary power and ten thousand sovereigns."...should the game give me the option of receiving the loot?

As long as it's optional I fail to see why not.

The DA:O Feastday Pack wasn't even in-game content unless you went out of your way to purchase & download it.  I don't see how having this available to the players who WOULD like this option (for RPG purposes or otherwise) effects you personally.  It's simple little fluff items (like the Mass Effect alternate appearance DLCs) that can be taken or left dependent upon your preference.

Really?  I thought it was a free DLC ala Black emporium.  If that's the case, then it shouldn't require a DLC.

Modifié par ScarMK, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:59 .

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

To be sure, there is a difference between exploring an area and opening every crate.

The latter can, frankly, die in the fire.



"Staple of RPGs" indeed.

[Realmzmaster]

How can romance be separate from friendship, rivalry or influence? Romance by it very nature requires some type of influence.

Most of the influence (positive or negative) that happened in DA2 was because of the conversations not gifts. The gifts in DAO allowed the Warden to make up for shortfalls in conversation

Also it will always be a numbers game because it has to be quantifiable to a microprocessor. A check has to be made along either the F/R or A/D continuum to trigger certain events.

I like the ability to find a gift especially if a companion has mentioned it in conversation or because the PC knows that it may be of interest to one of the companions. I look upon that as part of exploring the world. The gifts in DA2 are not essential to getting a high friendship or rivalry . Gifts are a nice addition. I do not believe they should be easy to get. Also certain gifts show your knowledge of the lore like knowing who is Shartan.

Finding the Signet ring for Varric makes sense because Bertrand pawned it, but it can only be found if you shop the shops. That is my opinion.

[Challseus]

Wulfram wrote...

Challseus wrote...

As someone else has pointed out, I'd actually argue against the "gift system" in general. It just made the influence system seem too arbitrary. Sure, there could be some exceptions to the case, but in general, if you want to get the most out of your companion, you should have to talk to them, and bring them along with you during your various missions. I'd say the things that happen during the experience of exploring a world should outshine you just giving some random gift to someone.

I think that's a fair criticism of the Origins system, but I don't think it really applies to DA2.

Fair enough. To be honest, even though I played DA2 to completion upon initial release, I don't even remember the friendship/rivalry bit that much. Though, I do seem to remember liking the companion specific quests and such (i.e. Aveline).

[Wulfram]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I like the ability to find a gift especially if a companion has mentioned it in conversation or because the PC knows that it may be of interest to one of the companions. I look upon that as part of exploring the world. The gifts in DA2 are not essential to getting a high friendship or rivalry . Gifts are a nice addition. I do not believe they should be easy to get. Also certain gifts show your knowledge of the lore like knowing who is Shartan.

Finding the Signet ring for Varric makes sense because Bertrand pawned it, but it can only be found if you shop the shops. That is my opinion.

If "finding" means looking in an appropriate places and talking to appropriate people in response to clues, then that's fair enough.  I think Varric mentions that Bertrand pawned the ring before you give it to him, which would make it fairly logical to find it in the trinket show, so I can't really complain much about that.

And, for another example, picking flowers for Leliana made sense, particularly since there was more than one occasion you could find these flowers

But when "finding" means looking in a random barrel for no particular reason, then it's just stupid.  And doesn't tell us anything about the world except that Thedosians are remarkably relaxed about people blatantly stealing their stuff.

If I want to give Zevran a present of some gloves, I should be able to ask the shopkeeper "hey, have you got some nice gloves for sale?", not have to steal one particular pair from a random box in the Dalish camp.

edit:  And Sten's sword and Morrigan's book made sense too

Modifié par Wulfram, 25 octobre 2012 - 11:06 .

[labargegrrrl]

i think that finding quest/gift items in the game is legit, provided we're not on one of those quests where it just seemed wrong to poke around as much.

for instance, in DAO, i had no idea there was a gift item in one of the barrels of the top floor of the tower of ishal until i metagamed. i was always slightly more preoccupied with lighting a particular beacon. and i DA2, it just felt wrong to poke around for the teventir chantry amulet b/c i felt like killing a bunch of slaving lunatics who were after one of my companions was slightly more pressing. ditto for the crafting resources in the all that remains.

i know we're supposed to just forget about whatever urgent quest that we're on when we see something shiny, and stop to loot, but sometimes distancing yourself from your pc that much just doesn't feel right. especially when you're doing those pristine, no/low-spoiler first couple of plays, and most especially when companions or circumstances are urging you to hurry your @ss up b/c you're doing something important.

there's a difference between finding something special under a rock when you happen to be wandering around, pulling something off of a corpse after a battle is over, seeing something nice in a shop and picking it up for a friend, and forgetting all about the life/death (perhaps world altering) situation your pc is wrapped up in in order to grab a trinket.

[Nashimura]

The ones down dark alleyways you have no reason to go down im not so fond of, I like a mix of looted stuff and stuff you can buy though. As long as there placed well, not when the game is telling you to time is of the essence.

Modifié par Nashimura, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:06 .

[Melca36]

Wulfram wrote...

Loot and items are reasonable rewards for snooping around behind rocks and in random barrels.  Still doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever.

Character development is not.  I shouldn't miss out on all too scarce chances to talk to my companions because I decided to focus on the mission, not checking out every nook and cranny.

Some of us don't like things handed to us so easily.

[Wulfram]

Melca36 wrote...

Some of us don't like things handed to us so easily.

While I think that tedious nonsensical busy work that destroys dramatic tension and my involvement in the game shouldn't be a requirement for getting the opportunity to talk to my companions

[Harle Cerulean]

Maria Caliban wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

It seems like the OP thinks he is being punished for not searching or exploring. While people who enjoy searching and exploring feel like they are being rewarded. Just a matter of perspective. Frankly, I think finding items in the game world is a lot better than just buying gifts from an NPC vendor like DAO.

To be sure, there is a difference between exploring an area and opening every crate.

You can be assured of this. I have a 'the Explorer' title in World of Warcraft, so I am an expert.

But... let's not talk about TOR.

You know someone's a hard-core Explorer when they got it BEFORE Cataclysm . . . oh, when I think of the time flying in Azeroth could have saved me on that . . . >_<

And, to keep from being totally off-topic here, my two cents on the actual thread issue:  I like being rewarded for exploring.  Gifts are an acceptable way to do that, and given how utterly worthless most loot was in DA2, it was a nice change to find something significant like a gift.

I do think that particularly significant items should be visually distinct, or contained in visually distinct objects - despite my love of exploring, I missed Aveline's shield once, because the crate simply did not stand out enough and my eyes skipped past it.  And that's a gift you literally have to go past while doing a main quest, not even a sidequest.

As for the use of gifts, I enjoyed the DA2 style more than the DA:O style.  The gifts in DA2 felt overall more significant, because each one had some kind of personal meaning to the person they were for, and weren't just "Here, LOVE ME," items, like the majority of gifts in DA:O.

That said, I would heartily support "prank" gifts existing as well.  Giving Zevran a chastity belt will forever live in my mind as one of the best jokes ever.  (Don't get me wrong, he's the only person I ever romance in DA:O, but that doesn't mean it's not hilarious!)

[Wulfram]

Does people's enjoyment of exploring rely on someone who is not interested in doing this missing out on rare opportunities to talk with the companions?

What if these items were also available for sale, at fairly high prices?

[megamacka]

I liked finding stuff that I heard my companions talk about earlier ( Morrigans mirror for example ) and then get a unique reaction to those gifts.

  Exploration is part of the experiance and it should be rewarded. It's not like it's required or anything, but it's pretty cool to actually feel like what your companions says matter. The mirror and Flemeths grimorie are great examples of this. The grimoire even gives a quest. 

Modifié par megamacka, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:37 .

[Wulfram]

megamacka wrote...

I liked finding stuff that I heard my companions talk about earlier ( Morrigans mirror for example ) and then get a unique reaction to those gifts.

  Exploration is part of the experiance and it should be rewarded. It's not like it's required or anything, but it's pretty cool to actually feel like what your companions says matter. The mirror and Flemeths grimorie are great examples of this. The grimoire even gives a quest. 

Those items are found in sensible places and aren't what I'm complaining about.

[deuce985]

Finding loot and items doesn't have to make sense. Not everything has to make sense in a game or you'd end up not having fun. If Bioware sat back and looked at every feature that doesn't "make sense" in a game, you wouldn't have much of a game to play.

With that being said, I don't mind finding alternate ways to distribute gifts. Or just remove them completely.

Far as exploring goes, I like to be rewarded. If I'm running around a big open world and I'm not finding any reason to do it other than drool over beautiful vistas, I'm not going to continue doing it. I need motivation to continue exploring. I'm playing a video game, not watching a movie. In Skyrim, you're in walking distance of new content everywhere you go. That's motivation enough for me. In DA, I might find new quests or even loot. That loot I can sell or equip to progress my character.

However, if you do something like Fable 2, I don't find motivation to explore at all. That game was the ultimate debbie downer when it came to exploring. You run off the beaten path, find a treasure chest, and it contained 1g or useless trinket. The trinkets weren't even used for anything other than to please my wife or kid? And that mechanic played into nothing within the game really. It was basically useless.

This happened in EVERY chest in that game. It was like the devs were playing a sick joke and mocking completionist just because they were exploring. That game PISSED me off when it came to exploration. So much so, I stopped playing it entirely.

Modifié par deuce985, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:46 .

[Quicksilver26]

All i have to say is leave ALL of my loot alone even the gifts! If its like da2 again and there is only a set time to talk to them maybe having another gift in a shop to find. would that be better for you?

[PsychoBlonde]

You know what might be a neat mechanic? As you adventure, stuff turns up in your house/stronghold, and you can then take it and give it to your companions.

[Fortlowe]

Wulfram wrote...

Loot and items are reasonable rewards for snooping around behind rocks and in random barrels.  Still doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever.

Character development is not.  I shouldn't miss out on all too scarce chances to talk to my companions because I decided to focus on the mission, not checking out every nook and cranny.

Just so I'm clearly understanding, you mean gifts with no clues involving their whereabouts or purpose, hidden randomly in crates/barrells/bushes,boxes/etc, correct?

If so, to an extent, I can agree. However, exploration is a big deal for me so the more of it the merrier. If that's the only means to drive and incorporate exlporation, then I would rather that than nothing.

Still, I think a more useful dog/warcat/dragonling/griffonling/wyvernling/schmooples, would be a means to deal with the matter. As opposed to bashing every crate in the ****house, Dog seeks out and signals to the one most in need of bashing. Fable did it, and it worked. Why not try it in DA?

[Eveangaline]

I'd like more gifts than there were in da2, in case you miss some