54 réponses à ce sujet

[andybuiadh]

Toasting in an epic bread?

[Demonic Spoon]

Because Wizards should not heal.



Seriously.



You got healer, DPS and tank in one class with the Mage in DA:O. If they had given the healing/buffing to an entire different class, Mages wouldn't be so friggin' over-powered.

Except DAO doesn't conform to WoW-esque roles like "DPS, healer, tank",

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Demonic Spoon wrote...

Because Wizards should not heal.

Seriously.

You got healer, DPS and tank in one class with the Mage in DA:O. If they had given the healing/buffing to an entire different class, Mages wouldn't be so friggin' over-powered.

Except DAO doesn't conform to WoW-esque roles like "DPS, healer, tank",

Are you an idiot or something? Of course it does!


I'd love to see Alistair or Oghren heal.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:24 .

[Baalzie]

ladydesire wrote...
Well, we really don't get "Arcane" Magic in DA; if we did, there wouldn't be any healing spells (which in D&D are strictly Divine Magic).

*sigh* I didn't mean the exact  useage of the word "Arcane" magic in ADD even though in a sense I do....
The only real difference between the 2 is that Divine magic is powered and granted by deities, whilst Arcane magic is powered by the User itself...
Then that some things is only doable through arcane magic and some via divine is just a way to force classes into play in said rpg... 

What I  DID mean was what I stated, Divine magic is granted and powered by deities, no such magic exist in Thedas or any realm from said gamesetting! 
Only Arcane magic, which actually is named as such *powers of the arcane, magic* ingame...
So uhm... As we're discussing DA:O my sentence stand undorrected and still correct! Hah!

Wonder why so many can't release their minds from the grip of ADD?
ADD is only one, not so good(personal opinion, love FR but hate the rules), rpg amongst MANY out there... *Levelsystems are inferior in rpg's! Levelfree rpg's are much better and scale for eternity without needing godlike creatures! All IMO ofc*

This game would be MUCH better with levelfree scaling of the characters abilities^^
Skip levels and keep points, skills, talents etc...

[Ulrik the Slayer]

"Clerics" in DA:O could simply be Mages who show a nack for Healing Magic, which The Chantry sees as a gift from The Maker rather than a dangerous curse, like they see most Mages, and grant them specific training and other benefits.

[Viglin]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Demonic Spoon wrote...

Because Wizards should not heal.

Seriously.

You got healer, DPS and tank in one class with the Mage in DA:O. If they had given the healing/buffing to an entire different class, Mages wouldn't be so friggin' over-powered.

Except DAO doesn't conform to WoW-esque roles like "DPS, healer, tank",

Are you an idiot or something? Of course it does!


I'd love to see Alistair or Oghren heal.

The mark of a weak mind...having to resort to insulting instead of defending one's case.

Every game, in one shape or form, reproduce/copy something from another game.
But some games do it less so then others.

As for "classes and the so-called holy trinity" in DAO...that, also like in most other games, comes about by player choice.
Who says a Spirit Healer must be a healer....or a Mage must master the Elements.
Player choice. You can easily ignore the so-calleed cliche route and design your casters completely differently.
Player choice.

As for Warriors healing...no...they have spent years training to be warriors and master combat and survivial...just as a mage spends years to master magic and knowledge.
Having Warriors being able to heal just caters for those who what everything yesterday or the easy button crowd.

[DragonRageGT]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

FollowTheGourd wrote...

Or you just took credit for it? DATNG - Cleric class v4. Even the READMEs are even practically identical.

... unless you're Reynen Starfyre incognito. <_<

Come on OP, own up, are you the aforementioned person or are you someone whom likes stealing peoples mods and claiming credit for it?

This is indeed what is called pladurism! errm.. I mean PLAGIARISM!

booo @ OP!

[Vae_Victis]

FollowTheGourd wrote...

Or you just took credit for it? DATNG - Cleric class v4. Even the READMEs are even practically identical.

... unless you're Reynen Starfyre incognito. <_<

(Edit: Just that Reynen already has an account here, so...)

Reynen Starfyre's class Tutorial Thread:

http://social.biowar...72/index/266739

Modifié par Vae_Victis, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:40 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Everyone knows Mage's are demi-gods in DA:O and they can do anything and everything. But what of Rogues and Warriors?



Warrior: Limited to tank or DPS-archtype.



Rogue: Limited to DPS-archtype, be it ranged or melee.



Not based on "wow archtypes" my arse.

[Viglin]

Baalzie wrote...

ladydesire wrote...
Well, we really don't get "Arcane" Magic in DA; if we did, there wouldn't be any healing spells (which in D&D are strictly Divine Magic).

*sigh* I didn't mean the exact  useage of the word "Arcane" magic in ADD even though in a sense I do....
The only real difference between the 2 is that Divine magic is powered and granted by deities, whilst Arcane magic is powered by the User itself...
Then that some things is only doable through arcane magic and some via divine is just a way to force classes into play in said rpg... 

What I  DID mean was what I stated, Divine magic is granted and powered by deities, no such magic exist in Thedas or any realm from said gamesetting! 
Only Arcane magic, which actually is named as such *powers of the arcane, magic* ingame...
So uhm... As we're discussing DA:O my sentence stand undorrected and still correct! Hah!

Wonder why so many can't release their minds from the grip of ADD?
ADD is only one, not so good(personal opinion, love FR but hate the rules), rpg amongst MANY out there... *Levelsystems are inferior in rpg's! Levelfree rpg's are much better and scale for eternity without needing godlike creatures! All IMO ofc*

This game would be MUCH better with levelfree scaling of the characters abilities^^
Skip levels and keep points, skills, talents etc...

Kinda like what suppossedly ffxiv is doing?

As for the ADD obession, its the same as people who cant stop comparing DAO to the BG series, Oblivion, ,WoW,etc...instead of judging the game on its own merits.

Modifié par Viglin, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:44 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Viglin wrote...

Baalzie wrote...

ladydesire wrote...
Well, we really don't get "Arcane" Magic in DA; if we did, there wouldn't be any healing spells (which in D&D are strictly Divine Magic).

*sigh* I didn't mean the exact  useage of the word "Arcane" magic in ADD even though in a sense I do....
The only real difference between the 2 is that Divine magic is powered and granted by deities, whilst Arcane magic is powered by the User itself...
Then that some things is only doable through arcane magic and some via divine is just a way to force classes into play in said rpg... 

What I  DID mean was what I stated, Divine magic is granted and powered by deities, no such magic exist in Thedas or any realm from said gamesetting! 
Only Arcane magic, which actually is named as such *powers of the arcane, magic* ingame...
So uhm... As we're discussing DA:O my sentence stand undorrected and still correct! Hah!

Wonder why so many can't release their minds from the grip of ADD?
ADD is only one, not so good(personal opinion, love FR but hate the rules), rpg amongst MANY out there... *Levelsystems are inferior in rpg's! Levelfree rpg's are much better and scale for eternity without needing godlike creatures! All IMO ofc*

This game would be MUCH better with levelfree scaling of the characters abilities^^
Skip levels and keep points, skills, talents etc...

Kinda like what suppossedly ffxiv is doing?

As for the ADD obession, its the same as people who cant stop comparing DAO to the BG series, Oblivion, ,WoW,etc...instead of judging the game on its own merits.

People like BioWare who claimed DA:OI to be the "spiritual successor" of the Baldur's Gate franchise? They, somewhat stupidly, but themselvs in that boat.

[Tirigon]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Everyone knows Mage's are demi-gods in DA:O and they can do anything and everything. But what of Rogues and Warriors?

Warrior: Limited to tank or DPS-archtype.

Rogue: Limited to DPS-archtype, be it ranged or melee.

Not based on "wow archtypes" my arse.

That´s bullsh*t, sorry.

BTT: Cleric classes suck, and if this one here is a copy of the other well-known cleric thing it sucks even more. Copying a f*cking OP class doesn´t make it any better.

[Viglin]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Everyone knows Mage's are demi-gods in DA:O and they can do anything and everything. But what of Rogues and Warriors?

Warrior: Limited to tank or DPS-archtype.

Rogue: Limited to DPS-archtype, be it ranged or melee.

Not based on "wow archtypes" my arse.

And what, pretell, would you have them be...other then the obvious Paladin and Nightblade class.
What "demi-god" abilities would you seek for them.

And what would they sacrifice for this increase in power?
Mages give up hits, offense and defense for their magic afterall.

Or would there be no sarcifice at all.......

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Viglin wrote...

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Everyone knows Mage's are demi-gods in DA:O and they can do anything and everything. But what of Rogues and Warriors?

Warrior: Limited to tank or DPS-archtype.

Rogue: Limited to DPS-archtype, be it ranged or melee.

Not based on "wow archtypes" my arse.

And what, pretell, would you have them be...other then the obvious Paladin and Nightblade class.
What "demi-god" abilities would you seek for them.

And what would they sacrifice for this increase in power?
Mages give up hits, offense and defense for their magic afterall.

Or would there be no sarcifice at all.......

They are the Cleric and Wizard(or rather Sorcerer) class combined into one package; extremely powerful. That's why they are demi-gods, they are far superiour to both Warriors and Rogues. Give 'em Lockpick and an Invisibility spell and you've eliminated the need for other characters totally.

Sacrifce? They don't sacrifice jack! They give up offense? Hah! They clear entire sections of the game in seconds. They give up defense? HAH! Crowd-control up the wazoo and stuff like Force Field makes 'em quite capable to defend themselves. Add to that they can easily get at least the basic healing spell.

ENCHANTMENT!

Tirigon wrote...

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Everyone knows Mage's are demi-gods in DA:O and they can do anything and everything. But what of Rogues and Warriors?

Warrior: Limited to tank or DPS-archtype.

Rogue: Limited to DPS-archtype, be it ranged or melee.

Not based on "wow archtypes" my arse.

That´s bullsh*t, sorry.

Then what, pray tell, is the thrid archtype for the Warrior class besides DPS and Tank?

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:52 .

[Fluffykeith]

See. Think I got misunderstood...I'm not having a go, of course people are free to use whatever mods they want to...all I was trying to ask is why people seem so fixed on the idea of shoehorning a class from DnD into a game which ISNT DnD. I don't get it, you see. DA:O doesn't have Clerics and it's Lore doesn't seem intended for them, it has healing magic from mages instead. DA:O just does things differantly. Why is that bad? Why do so many people seem to want DA:O to be more like DnD instead if accepting that it's not?



That's ALL I'm asking

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Because DnD is a true and tested system with many years on its neck. The DA:O system is inferiour in many ways. Add to that they dared to claim it was the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2", which naturally are gonna make people compare the two. Had they not made such claims I don't think people would compare the two.

In my opinion, remaking DA:O with the DnD ruleset can only improve it.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:59 .

[xeno_cws]

Viglin wrote...

[/b]As for the ADD obession, its the same as people who cant stop comparing DAO to the BG series, Oblivion, ,WoW,etc...instead of judging the game on its own merits.

In all honesty Bioware game developers compare DAO to Baldurs Gate and call it the spiritual successor so no ones at fault there.

As for creating a 'cleric' class, I think it has some merit though I would call it something different. You can already set up a mage to become one so I fail to see why a mod creating this class would be against the lore.

Example:

Diety - Maker/Mother Nature (for the druidesc archtype)

Spirit healer talent line
Champion talent line

Mage spells, select only healing, party buff, maybe a few damage spells that could be contributed to 'divine influence'.

Make sure to also add the sword and shield talent line as well and your all set.

[DragonRageGT]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Because DnD is a true and tested system with many years on its neck. The DA:O system is inferiour in many ways. Add to that they dared to claim it was the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2", which naturally are gonna make people compare the two. Had they not made such claims I don't think people would compare the two.

In my opinion, remaking DA:O with the DnD ruleset can only improve it.

Would that mean getting a combat window to see the rolls and something like... 6 attaks per round? 60-55-50-45-40 + 1 bonus from haste!

[Viglin]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Because DnD is a true and tested system with many years on its neck. The DA:O system is inferiour in many ways. Add to that they dared to claim it was the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2", which naturally are gonna make people compare the two. Had they not made such claims I don't think people would compare the two.

In my opinion, remaking DA:O with the DnD ruleset can only improve it.

Sorry, Rolemaster player here, and in my opinion, all games would be better if that system was used...but since lm not a game developer, ll take what l can get.

As to your earlier reply, your correct, Mage is really a Sorceror...which ld love to see broken down to Element,Mental,Spirit, etc......maybe one day.

As for archetype...sorry, again Rolemaster pnper here....with over 50 classes and 20000+ spells, its hard to look at the "achetypes" and take em serious.
But...if forced too...l wouldnt mind seeing a Semi-spelluser down the road.

Modifié par Viglin, 01 janvier 2010 - 09:18 .

[Viglin]

xeno_cws wrote...

Viglin wrote...

[/b]As for the ADD obession, its the same as people who cant stop comparing DAO to the BG series, Oblivion, ,WoW,etc...instead of judging the game on its own merits.

In all honesty Bioware game developers compare DAO to Baldurs Gate and call it the spiritual successor so no ones at fault there.

As for creating a 'cleric' class, I think it has some merit though I would call it something different. You can already set up a mage to become one so I fail to see why a mod creating this class would be against the lore.

Example:

Diety - Maker/Mother Nature (for the druidesc archtype)

Spirit healer talent line
Champion talent line

Mage spells, select only healing, party buff, maybe a few damage spells that could be contributed to 'divine influence'.

Make sure to also add the sword and shield talent line as well and your all set.

Very true, but what dicates that the game is...or is not the spiritual successor?
Is their some guidelines, or just player choice?

I enjoy the game, it does remind me of BG series, but l myself dont know if l call it the successor or not....l do know its the most fun lve had with an rpg since the BG/Neverwinter games...does that count?

[ladydesire]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Because DnD is a true and tested system with many years on its neck. The DA:O system is inferiour in many ways. Add to that they dared to claim it was the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2", which naturally are gonna make people compare the two. Had they not made such claims I don't think people would compare the two.

In my opinion, remaking DA:O with the DnD ruleset can only improve it.

I like DA the way it is, thank you very much; if I wanted to play a D&D based game, I'd play NWN or NWN2 (I own both, and mod NWN2).

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Just saying that DA:O is definitely not Baldur's Gate 2's successor and they would've been better off not making that claim.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Fluffykeith wrote...

See. Think I got misunderstood...I'm not having a go, of course people are free to use whatever mods they want to...all I was trying to ask is why people seem so fixed on the idea of shoehorning a class from DnD into a game which ISNT DnD. I don't get it, you see. DA:O doesn't have Clerics and it's Lore doesn't seem intended for them, it has healing magic from mages instead. DA:O just does things differantly. Why is that bad? Why do so many people seem to want DA:O to be more like DnD instead if accepting that it's not?

That's ALL I'm asking

And why are others opposed to a class simply becasue it is in DnD?

DnD had warrior, mages, and rogues before DAO. Lets take the warriors, mages, and rogues out of the game too. Oh, and werewolves, undead, dragons and most everything you encounter in the game.

If you are opposed to the introduction of clerics because they are in DnD you must logically oppose all of the existing classes and most of the creatures.

The Chantry may want everyone to worship the Maker and accept him as the "true god" but not everyone does. The wandering Dalish tribes for instance. Much of their lore was lost and they are still rediscovering it. "They have their own gods and their tattoos are to honor their gods.  And the Dwarves pray to their ancestors.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 janvier 2010 - 09:37 .

[Viglin]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Just saying that DA:O is definitely not Baldur's Gate 2's successor and they would've been better off not making that claim.

Have to agree, Dragon Age should stand on its own merits, and faults.........not those of whats come before.

[Viglin]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Fluffykeith wrote...

See. Think I got misunderstood...I'm not having a go, of course people are free to use whatever mods they want to...all I was trying to ask is why people seem so fixed on the idea of shoehorning a class from DnD into a game which ISNT DnD. I don't get it, you see. DA:O doesn't have Clerics and it's Lore doesn't seem intended for them, it has healing magic from mages instead. DA:O just does things differantly. Why is that bad? Why do so many people seem to want DA:O to be more like DnD instead if accepting that it's not?

That's ALL I'm asking

And why are others opposed to a class simply becasue it is in DnD?

DnD had warrior, mages, and rogues before DAO. Lets take the warriors, mages, and rogues out of the game too. Oh, and werewolves, undead, dragons and most everything you encounter in the game.

If you are opposed to the introduction of clerics because they are in DnD you must logically oppose all of the existing classes and most of the creatures.

The Chantry may want everyone to worship the Maker and accept him as the "true god" but not everyone does. The wandering Dalish tribes for instance. Much of their lore was lost and they are still rediscovering it. "They have their own gods and their tattoos are to honor their gods.  And the Dwarves pray to their ancestors.

Maybe lm too much of a Roleplayer, but l look at Spirit Healers as Clerics under another name.
"Cleric" checklist;
-Healing magic
-Buffing magic
-Offense magic
-Defense magic
-Can fight some what[especially with the right Spec]

Or are we too simple minded that they must be called Clerics to be seen as such?

Modifié par Viglin, 01 janvier 2010 - 09:39 .