351 réponses à ce sujet

[vonSlash]

Josh182 wrote...
You do not have to wait untill something is used to farm in order to prevent people from farming with it.

...

Better go get some Platinum runs in with my Katana before big bad Bioware preemptively prevents me from farming with it.

[Kushiel42]

EvanKester wrote...

Uhhhh I never said they were nerfed? The point I was trying to make is that if you look at  specifics you notice that only a fairly small slice of things in the game are underpowered.

Ah, okay. Well, I responded to that too, so no harm here. I do feel like a bit of an ass looking up all those balance changes now, though. 

(For what it's worth, you were piggybacking onto a discussion that Battlepope and I were having about stuff being overnerfed, so I assumed you were backing his play. My fault.)

[Kushiel42]

EvanKester wrote...

Because sometimes a power's actual impact on the metagame isn't obvious until it's released to the playerbase at large.

Yeah, while I'm no multiplayer guru, it's not at all uncommon in my experience for stuff to get released that turns out to be unbalanced. Makes sense - no matter how many test games you run with your staff, there's bound to be factors that you miss befoe it's released out into the wild and thousands (or tens or hundreds of thousands) of people get their hands on it.

Modifié par Kushiel42, 04 mars 2013 - 11:20 .

[Grunt_Platform]

Kushiel42 wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

Uhhhh I never said they were nerfed? The point I was trying to make is that if you look at  specifics you notice that only a fairly small slice of things in the game are underpowered.

Ah, okay. Well, I responded to that too, so no harm here. I do feel like a bit of an ass looking up all those balance changes now, though. 

(For what it's worth, you were piggybacking onto a discussion that Battlepope and I were having about stuff being overnerfed, so I assumed you were backing his play. My fault.)

Misunderstanding on both sides!

Mostly I just wanted to toss a bunch of hearts your way for insisting on specifics!

Kushiel42 wrote...

Yeah, while I'm no multiplayer guru, it's not at all uncommon in my experience for stuff to get released that turns out to be unbalanced. Makes sense - no matter how many test games you run with your staff, there's bound to be factors that you miss befoe it's released out into the wild and thousands (or tens or hundreds of thousands) of people get their hands on it.

Exactly.

One sterling example: I don't think anybody expected the AIU's power set to be quite as potent as it is. Sure, turning a grenade into a free revive sounds pretty strong, but I'm sure they also figured she needed an answer to the "Infiltrators are squishy!" assumption a lot newer players have, in addition to the aversion newbies have to grenades leading to their underuse. So they piled on a lot of fairly strong survival buffs too.

Aaaand the result is a character that not only gets a free revive when she goes down, but has similar durability to the TGI before that happens. Yay.

Opposite end of the spectrum: The Revenant and the Spitfire.

Modifié par EvanKester, 04 mars 2013 - 11:35 .

[Schachmatt123]

Bump. More people needs to see this thread.

[Happy Shepard]

vonSlash wrote...

Josh182 wrote...
You do not have to wait untill something is used to farm in order to prevent people from farming with it.

...

Better go get some Platinum runs in with my Katana before big bad Bioware preemptively prevents me from farming with it.

Adas, BPP and Spitfire want to have a word with you.

Modifié par Happy Shepard, 05 mars 2013 - 01:54 .

[SeitenHekireki]

Definitely a good thread. However, the question always remains. WHY would the dev team issue an OP kit/power/weapon in the first place? OK, say the TGI-GI weren't completely obvious. But EDI and her infinite medigels? Who in their right mind would say "OK, seems legit, not OP at all"? (Note that I love the TGI, he and the Kroguard allowed me to take my first steps into Gold)

[Adragalus]

SeitenHekireki wrote...

Definitely a good thread. However, the question always remains. WHY would the dev team issue an OP kit/power/weapon in the first place? OK, say the TGI-GI weren't completely obvious. But EDI and her infinite medigels? Who in their right mind would say "OK, seems legit, not OP at all"? (Note that I love the TGI, he and the Kroguard allowed me to take my first steps into Gold)

I still don't understand this connection between medigel and power level.

>It can be assumed, and correctly so, that if you're going down a lot and needing to gel you're not doing very well.
>The AIU has access to somewhere between "40 medigels omg" (if you ****d every TCP) and "infinite medigels raeg" (if you molest ammo boxes)
>Previous to the release of this character, the "worst" you could be with gelling was 8-ish.
>So why is it that a character that allows you to die over and over and over again so frickin' OP?

Seriously, if it's that overpowered because of RM, then.... what? Logic just breaks down there. If a player was using her and was doing really, really good, they'd barely use RM. If they're using RM as a "crutch," then they're not doing well by any stretch of the imagination. If someone is using her and owning your score, big whoop. It's obviously not because of RM, because constant death doesn't pad your score.

If they're dying a lot and rezzing, then more power to them. AT THE VERY LEAST, you don't have to **** and moan about them going down and bleeding out all the time, and they act as a bullet sponge.

This post is addressed to nerfherders in general, so can someone please, please explain their reasoning to me?

[ElectroNeonPanda]

If balance is so important I wonder why BW continually avoid either toning down the Infiltrator class or bringing all other classes up to their level of power. Look at every speed run thread and you're guaranteed to see x4 Infiltrators. No other class has the same damage potential, survivability, or utility. Nothing comes close.

And yet they're content for one class to be able to trivialise game modes (sub 8 min Plat) and gain credits at a significantly superior rate in addition to being the yardstick for which weapons in this game are balanced around.

So, yeah, balance.

[Maveric11]

the OP has a valid argument for 3 characters. but since mass effect has over 50, any op character gets diluted by the mass selection and thousands of people that play this game. when things are different, there are always things that are better. which is why games always have a tier system. there will always be a top tier.

nerfing is for placating people that can't take an L and it still doesn't solve the tier system

[dday3six]

It's all one side telling the other and vica versa how to enjoy the game based on their own perspectives. It's quite frank that it never occurred to certain people that there is no wrong or right in this situation, only opinion.

[Nrofl]

Melgrimm wrote...

releasing powerful characters to get people to dump money into purchases, then nerfing those characters after they've made their profit so that people want to dump money into the next big thing

This is a rather common business strategy with any large-player-base non-subscription multiplayer games, i.e. League of Legends. I'm not saying it's the best, but if they only released already-balanced characters, there would be less flocking to the new hotness. Less flocking, less money spent, lower quality of service. Releasing OP then balancing later may irk some the player base a bit in the long run, but it keeps the servers up (mostly).

At least in my book, some players annoyed some of the time > reduction in quality of service.

PS: does 14 days constitute necromancy?

Modifié par Nrofl, 21 mars 2013 - 03:01 .

[Shampoohorn]

dday3six wrote...

It's all one side telling the other and vica versa how to enjoy the game based on their own perspectives. It's quite frank that it never occurred to certain people that there is no wrong or right in this situation, only opinion.

I've given your post a lot of thought, and I disagree.

[DullahansXMark]

Shampoohorn wrote...

dday3six wrote...

It's all one side telling the other and vica versa how to enjoy the game based on their own perspectives. It's quite frank that it never occurred to certain people that there is no wrong or right in this situation, only opinion.

I've given your post a lot of thought, and I disagree.

Same. There's nothing "perspective" about trivializing Gold or--hell--even Silver difficulty. If easy games are your thing, then Bronze works just fine. If you want GOLD to be easy...

[Samerandomscreennameidontcareabout]

Shampoohorn wrote...

dday3six wrote...

It's all one side telling the other and vica versa how to enjoy the game based on their own perspectives. It's quite frank that it never occurred to certain people that there is no wrong or right in this situation, only opinion.

I've given your post a lot of thought, and I disagree.

You certainly did. It took you more than 4 months to think this through. You have my resepct for being a quick thinker.

[Shampoohorn]

Samerandomscreennameidontcareabout wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...

dday3six wrote...

It's all one side telling the other and vica versa how to enjoy the game based on their own perspectives. It's quite frank that it never occurred to certain people that there is no wrong or right in this situation, only opinion.

I've given your post a lot of thought, and I disagree.

You certainly did. It took you more than 4 months to think this through. You have my resepct for being a quick thinker.

I am a devotee of Zelazny and The Great Slow Kings, eschewing rashness in favor of deliberation and thoughtful contemplation. Truth be told, I was of the same mind in April but it's reassuring to know my views maintain.

[Tallgeese_VII]

Right back at you

..Anyway..
Yeah, we definitely needed balance change.

A team of unnerfed GI, Krysae, Falcon, AIU, Typhoon would have destroyed a lot of games if they still existed.
Doesn`t mean BW did great job with balancing.. but they still did a job that is better to be done than not.

[Deerber]

This is a well deserved bump/necro. I've always liked this thread.

[Shampoohorn]

Deerber wrote...

This is a well deserved bump/necro. I've always liked this thread.

Yeah, its insights are still relevant even though balance changes have been dead for four months.

[Evil]

Nrofl wrote...
PS: does 14 days constitute necromancy?

My how times have changed.

[Slojack]

TchockTckocky wrote...

*bump*

HA.  Nice.

[DullahansXMark]

TchockTckocky wrote...

*bump*

Wai

[Lucky]

DullahansXMark wrote...

TchockTckocky wrote...

*bump*

Wai

Wai did you remake a thread that still existed?

[DullahansXMark]

rlucht wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

TchockTckocky wrote...

*bump*

Wai

Wai did you remake a thread that still existed?

To screw with BSNers' heads.

Wai y bump mah thread.

(I hope this one doesn't get locked, though )