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Why Nerfing Exists -- A long-winded guide to why you're really, really wrong


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#126
IndigoVitare

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neteng101 wrote...


I honestly think the power creep on the enemy side is vastly overstated compared to power creep on the player side.


How so?  I can play with the same weapons/kits I used prior to the DLC, and the difference is noticeable.  They didn't even add any weapon in the DLC that was worthwhile.  So unless you're talking specific to people doing Volus Shield Boosting tricks like Rio container gaming and the Turian Ghost, I just don't see it.

Again, your ability to adapt and skills to deal with increased difficulty doesn't reflect everyone else's.  That you've become oblivious to the enemy side power creep does not mean it didn't happen.


Gear as a whole essentially represents a... what... 15% improvement to anything? There's level IV equipment. 6 Medigel instead of 5. Headshots on all bosses.

The game, now, is easier than it has ever been before. Players have more options, more choice, more benefits to maximise effectiveness in any situation. It is laughable to claim that the game is getting harder.



#127
LeandroBraz

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neteng101 wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

This is literally the worse example I  ever saw, and it will take a long, long time before I find something near worse. Did you even thought this through?


You can't even explain to us why this is the worse example you ever saw?  Perhaps because what I said is nothing but the simple fact and reality.

This is literally what Bioware's nerfs amount to - if something is too good, we must nerf it to keep other things ie. "lessers" from becoming irrelevant.  And Bioware's flawed definition of too good is if everyone uses it a lot, then it has to be too good.

It seeks to level the playing field.  It is very much a communist/socialist philosophy.  It does not reward greatness/goodness but punishes it instead.  It seeks sameness - you can pick the color of the car you want, size/shape/etc, but we're going to mandate all cars can only go this fast and limit them.

Its a terribble terrible dictatorship of the playerbase.  Its extremely offensive and impinges on choice and freedom.


Or perhaps I didn't explain because it's so obviously bad that I didn't felt the need to, people will read and see by themselves the flaw of your logic, in the same way someone see 2+2=5 and know it's wrong, no need to explain why.

  The idea is not to make everything equal, it's quite the opposite, is to have different options, all viable and unique, without none becoming too superior, to a point where all the others stop looking as a viable option, since you have this one that are a lot better. 

 It reward greatness, but the greatness of a player skill, not the greatness of a char. Depending on a char that are a lot superior is not greatness. If you can't, for example, be good with a destroyer now, you wasn't good with it in the first place, the OP nature of the char was making you look good, you just had an unfair advantage, this is not skill, and shouldn't be rewarded.

 It's like the infiltrator nerf, it showed up the difference between good infiltrators, and people that was hiding behind the infiltrators excessive damage and survability. The good infiltrators players just adapted to the new infiltrator's reality, and the bad ones moved on, since they lacked the skill to actually play the infiltrator.

#128
GreyLycanTrope

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Mozts wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Bioware pls nerf OP.


Very mature honey. Here, have a cookie.B)

Was only jest, don't play MP often enough to have an opinion on the issue :lol:

#129
Grunt_Platform

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Typhoon wasn't overused—the nerf happened before that could possibly have been the case. But players were taking Gold and Platinum Atlases out in a single clip with it. Heck, I tried a Typhoon I before the nerf, and it was already munching through bosses like crazy. I thought it was pretty cool, but I'm not surprised the people at Bioware felt that was a bit overkill.

Preeettty sure that's evidence that they care more about the actual gameplay results than overuse. Overuse invites investigation. What happens after that depends on the results. That is what Eric Fagnan has always said. Overuse is a symptom of a problem, and the less variety people see in lobbies, the worse the general experience for all players.

As for the difficulty—Dude. I identified the three big changes that came with the DLC and the patch. The Geth Bombers are not that tough. Yes, they require a slight shift in tactics, but that doesn't change that they're easier to deal with than Pyros. They kill you a lot slower, die a lot faster, and you can actually evade them after they initiate their attack. I outright said that Dragoons and the functional Combat Drones are a small difficulty spike, so I don't see an issue there.

Every single other tweak? They haven't really changed my tactics at all. I haven't had to adjust to the buffed Brutes, for example. They still go down easy enough to combos and focused fire. The Collectors are definitely a bit tougher than the other factions, and I've noticed that even on Silver they can really make you suffer for not carrying high DPS weapons. I'm not oblivious to the fact that Gold PUGs feel harder, but I've been taking a serious look at why—and most of it is a combination of bad teams and bad lag. That, and the Collectors, but you can't call the Collectors power creep for the other three factions.

So.. Netang, you might have better luck if you argue with the things people actually say?

Modifié par EvanKester, 26 octobre 2012 - 03:19 .


#130
LeandroBraz

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Tonymac wrote...

You know - I would not mind it if they only had to nerf the stuff once in the name of 'balance'. New kits and new guns can affect the supposed 'balance'. I get that. If you don't do the maths - and QA test your product, you can make the player base do it for you. Its the lazy man's way out. Why have a QA team? They sure as freak aren't testing this stuff before putting it out. I dunno what they are doing - but then again the QA I did in the Navy was for the Submarine Safe program. We accept ZERO defects. Those who commit defects are immediately re-trained, put on notice, and if they mess up again for the rest of their careers they are done.

But these guys at Bioware - especially that "Marauder Sheilds" dude- nerf, re-nerf, post-re-re-nerf and in a few cases micro-buff the same damn item or class. Get off it already. Test your stuffs man! The game is fun - and you STILL keep tweaking. I work hard, have fun, earn a good gun, and BAM - its junk. That trash is trifling. Besides that, micro-buffing a few worthless guns does not make things kosher.

I want Bioware to make a concerted effort to spend less time harassing the players. The constant nitpicking and micro-managing is getting old. Attacking players' favorite classes or weapons should not be the answer. Quality product from the start is the right way to do it.



This is different from a submarine, I doubt the submarine users try to tweak the submarine to find stronger ways to use it. The fanbase will aways find ways to use the new stuff that Bioware didn't thought about, We are too good at it =D, and sometimes this things they didn't thought about will end up being too strong.

Modifié par LeandroBraz, 26 octobre 2012 - 03:17 .


#131
Mendelevosa

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neteng101 wrote...

TL;DR - If we nerfed people in real life, everyone would be achieving a C average in school. Everyone would earn the same salary regardless of their job.

Ok with nerfing = ok with mediocrity.

That's just stupid!


So explain how you relate real life school success to video game success? Applying yourself in school gets you scholarships and can allow you to receive many opprotunities that will assist you later in life. List one way that winning in a video game benefits you in real life.

But I wouldn't expect you to come up with a valuable answer to this thread, especially since you apparently were too lazy to read the OP.

EDIT: I don't mean to sound rude, I just do not understand yur logic, especially since you pulled a "TL;DR."

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 26 octobre 2012 - 03:42 .


#132
CmnDwnWrkn

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LeandroBraz wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

You know - I would not mind it if they only had to nerf the stuff once in the name of 'balance'. New kits and new guns can affect the supposed 'balance'. I get that. If you don't do the maths - and QA test your product, you can make the player base do it for you. Its the lazy man's way out. Why have a QA team? They sure as freak aren't testing this stuff before putting it out. I dunno what they are doing - but then again the QA I did in the Navy was for the Submarine Safe program. We accept ZERO defects. Those who commit defects are immediately re-trained, put on notice, and if they mess up again for the rest of their careers they are done.

But these guys at Bioware - especially that "Marauder Sheilds" dude- nerf, re-nerf, post-re-re-nerf and in a few cases micro-buff the same damn item or class. Get off it already. Test your stuffs man! The game is fun - and you STILL keep tweaking. I work hard, have fun, earn a good gun, and BAM - its junk. That trash is trifling. Besides that, micro-buffing a few worthless guns does not make things kosher.

I want Bioware to make a concerted effort to spend less time harassing the players. The constant nitpicking and micro-managing is getting old. Attacking players' favorite classes or weapons should not be the answer. Quality product from the start is the right way to do it.



This is different from a submarine, I doubt the submarine users try to tweak the submarine to find stronger ways to use it. The fanbase will aways find ways to use the new stuff that Bioware didn't thought about, We are too good at it =D, and sometimes this things they didn't thought about will end up being too strong.


Why are you making so many excuses for them?  What new ways did people find to use the Destroyer or Demolisher that weren't entirely obvious?  It wasn't obvious that a character with the ability to create unlimited Arc Grenades would be capable of dealing a lot of damage by granade spamming?  Or that a soldier with significant boost to accuracy, rate of fire, clip size, AND damage would be powerful?

#133
neteng101

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EvanKester wrote...

Maybe GodlessPaladin would've given you a thorough counter argument, he seemed to have endless patience for arguments.


He is also terribly elitist and biased - you cannot change his opinion on anything at all.  Its his way or the highway.  I for one am really glad he's gone.

Let's just start at the basics though: You are oversimplifying both sides of your comparison hideously. Keeping the game balanced in order to facilitate variety isn't even remotely similar to communism or whatever you're imagining. I could also argue that  having the bulk of the player base using the same kits, with the same weapons and beating the highest difficulties regardless of skill level is creating a pretty terrible sameness.


You can argue that.  But can you prove it?  Give us an example that anyone in the game can easily use to beat platinum consistently.  Aside from missile glitching, I don't see any recipes.  Even FBWGP was not a thing most of the playerbase was able to do, prior to the map changes.

Also... there's actually a good reason most roads in North America have speed limits? Not every road in the world can be the autobahns.


The limits are totally outdated, based on a crisis that government capitalized upon to limit personal freedoms.  Its a terrible form of goverment power creep, but as we know, power corrupts.  And the real reason it remains today is purely economic...  ie. speeding tickets.  But even they don't (for now) mandate a speed limiter on every vehicle.  So Bioware's actually worse.

EDIT: The biggest problem? Your argument has free-wheeling, faulty comparisons to all kinds of issues that are both bigger than balance changes in a video game, and way off topic. I don't know about you, but I seriously don't want to have to get in an argument about the necessity of speed limits on highways on a forum about things like jiggly quarian bum-bums and defeating the minions of robot-space-cthulhus.


We needn't go deep into that other discussion.  But the principle here is the same regardless.  It is an entity (Bioware) trying to dictate how the community/playerbase (ME3 MP) plays the game.  I find it just terribly offensive a philosophy, as an individual that values individualism and sees the value in a meritocracy.

#134
Grunt_Platform

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Ha ha wow.

Anyway, back on the actual topic of this thread: I wonder if the Copper's overpowered synergy was keeping the new Billy Club weapons from being buffed for the other characters! It would be nice if those changes happened nice and quick.

But the one, really big problem with the process is it can just be kind of slow.

Modifié par EvanKester, 26 octobre 2012 - 03:43 .


#135
LeandroBraz

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neteng101 wrote...

Also... there's actually a good reason most roads in North America have speed limits? Not every road in the world can be the autobahns.


The limits are totally outdated, based on a crisis that government capitalized upon to limit personal freedoms.  Its a terrible form of goverment power creep, but as we know, power corrupts.  And the real reason it remains today is purely economic...  ie. speeding tickets.  But even they don't (for now) mandate a speed limiter on every vehicle.  So Bioware's actually worse.


Maybe this is truth on USA, which I strongly doubt, but you should come to Brazil, most of our roads are so bad, so full of holes that going too fast is suicide. We just lack the structure to allow any speed, which make speed limits something vital to prevent acidents..

#136
neteng101

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EvanKester wrote...

Ha ha wow.


Speechless eh?  You can't argue with the simple fact.

I'm resigned to the fact too that Bioware will do whatever it wants to do, and nerfs are going to happen.  Honestly back to the gaming side, I'd like to see the much needed buffs happen quicker too.

As for the Typhoon - I'll just leave it alone for now given I got all the challenge points I needed from it - at I, its terribly atrocious even with full equipment on anything but a Destroyer, and even on the Destroyer its just passable.  And yes I even tried it on the Ghost.  Sucks is an understatement.

The Gold game I played just before that, forgetting to switch out the Collector Assault Rifle I was doing for challenge points on silver, was honestly more fun than the one I was stuck with a Typhoon I, extended clip/barrel, AR rail 3, AP ammo IV.

They nerfed it to make it into a UR deadweight.

#137
LeandroBraz

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neteng101 wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

Ha ha wow.


Speechless eh?  You can't argue with the simple fact.


You really need to learn the difference between when the person don't have answer for your arguments, and when what you said is so absurdly out of reality that the person don't even bother to give you a proper reply.

#138
neteng101

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LeandroBraz wrote...

You really need to learn the difference between when the person don't have answer for your arguments, and when what you said is so absurdly out of reality that the person don't even bother to give you a proper reply.


I'm smart enough to know when I'm being purposely absurd, and when what I presented is totally factual and reality based. :whistle:

Bioware's balancing philosophy is simply wrong and really quite offensive in their poor treament of their paying customers.

#139
neteng101

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Mendelevosa wrote...

So explain how you relate real life school success to video game success? Applying yourself in school gets you scholarships and can allow you to receive many opprotunities that will assist you later in life. List one way that winning in a video game benefits you in real life.


Sure - ever heard of work hard, play hard?  Bioware's nerfs is directly reducing the fun level of the game for the average player.  A video game shouldn't have to be too much work/slog.

Fire up a video game at the end of a busy day, have some fun, kill some things, and feel good when you WIN.  Its actually that simple...  its a form of relaxation.  This is also where "its a co-op game" really rings true...  more people are in it to have some fun, not like competitive PvP games with actual tourneys/competition mode.  Oh yeah I did read the OP's original post, I just didn't want to respond to every point in it, because the overall logic of the OP is flawed.

And yes there's always lower difficulties, but you cannot help but to feel more accomplished beating a "harder" difficulty.  And the fun challenge remains intact...  once you've done it with some OP weapon/kit and get the hang of it, you can progress to the more difficult to play weapons/kits.

So there is NO reason to justify the nerfs.  Other than Bioware simply arm twisting people - which is my whole point on why nerfs are so not needed in this game.  Only the truly competitive, elitist gamer in the game wants them.  Not the many just having fun with ME3 MP.  Because its CO-OP!

#140
nSquared75

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CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

IndigoVitare wrote...

Xerorei wrote...

Having read the entire OP I must say, people who explain why nerfs/buffs exist seem to always leave out the stacked deck changes done to the Enemies..

Geth: Stun spam, cover flusher, rocket troopers firing when stasis/lashed/immobilized.
Pyro flames being longer than the graphic, pyro flames going through cover they shouldn't be able to.

Cerberus: Atlas DoT rocket, atlases grabbing people through walls, atlas Synch Kill being done instantly, Dragoons, engineer turret spam, DRAGOONS, guardians being able to shield/shoot (and paladin's can't).

Reapers: Banshee instant synch kills, that's pretty much it.

Collectors: Everything being possessed at once. Praetorians shooting through cover, Scions shooting through cover, also cluster bomb spam.

All things can be "Worked Around" typically, until they can't, when there is nothing you can do BUT die, that's when headphones get flung off. (Like the Atlas that grabbed me through the wall I was taking cover and synch killing me, out of nowhere).


And people who complain about nerfs tend to leave out the massive universal buffs we've received over the course of the game.

Gear as a whole essentially represents a... what... 15% improvement to anything? There's level IV equipment. 6 Medigel instead of 5. Headshots on all bosses.

The game, now, is easier than it has ever been before. Players have more options, more choice, more benefits to maximise effectiveness in any situation. It is laughable to claim that the game is getting harder.


I would argue, for most characters, that the enemy buffs have outpaced benefits extended to the players.  There are a handful of characters that are so powerful, it is easy to forget that the game has gotten harder for most character types.  For example, the game has gotten harder for all characters with 555-750 base health/shields who don't have a shield recharge ability or other type of damage reduction.


Thank you. Such things needed attention.

Even those with a shield recharge or damage reduction have a low survival rate when it comes to Gold/Platnum. They are usually power based and rely on fast cooldowns which obviously limits the weapon types. If they lack synergy with their other powers "Phoenix Vanguard" then, they are often put on there face right after their shields have replenished.

Speaking of Platinum, I believe it was said that the recent nerfs was partially due to the usage Dev/Dem on Platinum. I don't don't understand why Platinum would be the base difficulty to make decisions upon. Although, I am not sure but, I can bet that the majority of players do not play on Platinum. BW wanted to reduce the amount of farming. This is understandable However, I notice more farming on Platinum than any other difficulty. When I see a missile glitcher; what difficulty am I usually on? You guessed it, Platinum. 

Platinum should not be the base for any kind of decision. As players we are partially to blame. Due to the level of difficulty, Platinum allows for very little freedom of choice and strategy. Because of such, we as player tend to use what works for use becasue we don't like to lose. We want to do our best, not only for ourselves but, for the rest of the team. Nobody, wants to be carried, right? Due to things I've already listed above, the variety on kits, gear and weapons are gonna be narrowed in order to maintain a high probablity of success.

In essence, most of us are elitists in some fashion and Platinum brings this out in full force, We limit ourselves on what kit and what weapons we use and, enforce it upon others. Try bringing something like the Phoenix V in a with an Avenger into a Platinum lobby and see what you get. Hell, many viable builds will still get kicked with certains weapons or gear. Why is BW seeing more of certain kits and or weapons being played on Platinum? The answer is because we are limiting what comes to our lobbies for such?  If it doesn't meet a certain criteria then they are kicked. It's that or risk a greater chance of losing. Platinum is all about glory and credits for the majority that play it.
In some ways, the creation of Platinum was a bad decision.

I'll get off of my soapbox and, get back to the thread. In many ways, I do agree with the OP. Many of us do understand the concepts of powercreep and, I agree that this game has been at risk. We all want to be Superman/Woman but, there has to be a limit. Buffing can become out of control and, it can quickly accelerate the demise of a game. Finding that balance is a difficult job for developers and many of us do recognize this. However, no matter how I look at it, I just don't see how the Dev/Dem required a nerf. Neither were simply all that impressive. What they had going for them however, was unique to only them. They stood out, not because of their strength but, because they were unique kits. The thought that their usage in Platinum was part of the reason, just bewilders me. I've already listed why.

I use to use the Pirahna a lot because, I have a tendency to prefer the squishier characters and; it has a great power/weight ratio. I did not cry over the nerf to it. It really made other shotguns appear weak, minus the claymore. The Krysae has been the topic of prayers for quite a long time since, it was nerfed into an AirSoft gun. Now, nobody uses it. It went to something everyone wanted to becoming the bastard child of the game. Well, maybe next to the GPR. 

My point is that there were factors that were obviosly overlooked when the decisons for the recent were made. The OP wrote a good article alothough, I felt the emotji were somewhat a distraction. Sorry for this being lengthy.





*I'm multitasking so, please over look any grammar or spelling mistakes.

#141
Grunt_Platform

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Well.. since we're discussing power creep and its relevance to nerfs.. I guess we should look at what power creep we've actually seen:

All factions: I've noticed basic mooks hitting with full bursts and focus firing slightly more often.. but it's not really that common.

Cerberus: The health buffs Cerberus received aren't so bad, and I haven't noticed the Atlas's faster speed much. The Dragoon and the incendiary effect on the Atlas's rocket stand out though. The big problem with the former is just that he just favors the classes that were already stronger—heavy shotgun users, biotic kill squads, strong stagger effects, etc. It exacerbates the weakness of some underpowered weapons and classes. The incendiary rocket hurts but.. I dunno, not that big a deal.

Geth: Prime pet spam has been toned down, which helps. And Hunters no longer stunlock you on their own. Other than that.. I think the Geth Bomber is preferable to the pyros. It rewards mobile play, something the geth don't do enough. The new combat drone is annoying at times, but since it's not spammed quite so much, it's a bit easier to keep them down.

Reapers: Brutes have slightly more HP now.. but the powers and guns that tore threw them still work about as well. So.. yeah.

Collectors: Wwwwow. I can't call this power creep, since last I checked they're still completely separate from the other factions (having played much Retaliation platinum other than Collectors—Do collectors spawn much in the waves for other factions?)... The entire collector faction is a bit slanted toward high-DPS, cooldown light, hit-and-run weapon users, that dd. They're not too bad, or even much worse than Reapers if your team communicates and works together. But in PUGs?.. hoo boy.

It doesn't help that most players in PUGs have issues with hack objectives.

#142
His Guardness

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DullahansXMark wrote...

As I said, some needs are questionable. But BioWare has the numbers here, they're seeing something we can't. We need to just trust their judgment on these things. And if we can't bring it in ourselves to agree, then protest peaceably. Use numbers, hack the SP, do whatever to prove your point. But don't just rant.


Even if it's not really fitting to the subject of this thread, I have to admit my trust in Bioware (game wise) is very limited. One could say barely existing at all.

Once I've trusted them so much that I've bought (preordered) the ME3 CE without a second thought. But with this game they literally obliterated all trust I had (and no I won't use the forbidden word which describes the last chapter of something).
But back to the subject:
I've played the MP-part since my first SP playthrough. I watched it evolving and I must confess my trust into Biowares decision making (or QA for that matter) has not been restored.

#143
TheloniusBear

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neteng101 wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

You really need to learn the difference between when the person don't have answer for your arguments, and when what you said is so absurdly out of reality that the person don't even bother to give you a proper reply.


I'm smart enough to know when I'm being purposely absurd, and when what I presented is totally factual and reality based. :whistle:

Bioware's balancing philosophy is simply wrong and really quite offensive in their poor treament of their paying customers.


I have to ask. How is bioware limiting your play options as you have said? Is the destroyer not available anymore? Or is he so hindered by the reduction to magazine size that you feel he is rendered useless? I know there wasn't mention of the destroyer  by name, and this topic is more of the ideas BEHIND balance changes, I simply used that as it was the most recent example. There has yet to be any game breaking changes yet, either for characters or weapons. 
The next section is a general statement directed at the general community.
They balance against the difficulty levels. Since the game has been out for awhile now and so many players have a beefed up manifest, there seems to be a pretty distorted view of what the difficulties are as opposed to what they were intended to be by the community. People seem to think that gold has to be completed in a set amount of time. I agree that quicker games are more efficient at stockpiling credits, and that is a big drive. But the gameplay itself is the main draw of the game, for myself and I would imagine a great deal of others. What other games out there give you as many options of playstyles as this? And maintaining such a large and growing pool of options is a tough gig. Yes there have been some possibly over zealous nerfs. But come on, bioware is made up of a team of dedicated PEOPLE. As people they will make mistakes and that's a ok with me. If you have never made a mistake then by all means please continue to look down on their ( very few and minute) mistakes as horrible blights on the community. Otherwise please don't act like you have a better grasp on what should be done to the game than the creators. This is not directed at any one person. I apologize if anyone feels like this is directed at them. 

#144
etm125

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How the hell does one leap from video game nerfs to communism? Find another outlet for philosophical thought.

I don't know how to make this any clearer: balancing (requires monitoring, buffs AND nerfs) promotes variety. If one toon is so far superior to the others people all migrate to it. This kills variety.

Some of the ideas presented here are just unbelievably bad.

#145
mackfactor

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What people fail to acknowledge is that a game is not supposed to roll over and let you man handle it. Challenge must be present. I think most of the anti-nerfers have an issue with is that they're barely good enough to play on the difficulties they'd like to play. And they need a top **** class to hang. If people just accepted where they stand and kept trying to get better, we'd have far less whining.

Gold is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be pretty hard. And Platinum is stopped to be ridiculously hard. If you can rock Gold with one class, but can't consistently carry a team on Silver with any others, you're probably one of these people.

#146
Dark Tlaloc

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mackfactor wrote...

What people fail to acknowledge is that a game is not supposed to roll over and let you man handle it. Challenge must be present. I think most of the anti-nerfers have an issue with is that they're barely good enough to play on the difficulties they'd like to play. And they need a top **** class to hang. If people just accepted where they stand and kept trying to get better, we'd have far less whining.

Gold is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be pretty hard. And Platinum is stopped to be ridiculously hard. If you can rock Gold with one class, but can't consistently carry a team on Silver with any others, you're probably one of these people.


I agree with you about the difficulty and about people needing to practice, but that shouldn't come at the cost of your favorite character(s). Some of the people upset about nerfs are simply upset because their favorite classes were nerfed, not because the game is now more difficult for them. 

I'll give you an example: I like the destroyer a lot. I think he looks cool, I like his passive ability (really
like his frags), and although I don’t use the missile launcher (didn’t have
good experiences with it, so I switched to all frag), I think that’s a cool
power too. So was I excited that he was slightly nerfed? No, of course not; no
one is going to be happy when a class
they like is made less powerful. That being said, I never really played him
past Silver (I prefer more mobile classes for anything above that difficulty,
and he’s about as immobile as it gets). So if I were to complain about his nerf,
I would be doing so simply from the perspective of having used him when he was
better, and preferring him that way; he’s the class I use when I just want to
shoot some guns, and/or when I want to get the most out of a gun.

 

The point I’m trying to make is, while I’m sure plenty of
people complain because they’re pissed off they can’t rely on one character
after it has been nerfed, there are plenty of people who complain simply
because they like the character. I play a Vorcha sentinel, Asari Justicar and
Sentinel, both Geth, Paladin, both Volus, Batarian Soldier, Slayer, Kroguard
and Turian Ghost, and a nerf to any of them wouldn’t make me happy, simply
because I enjoy all the aforementioned classes. Just playing devil's advocate.

#147
nSquared75

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Dark Tlaloc wrote...

mackfactor wrote...

What people fail to acknowledge is that a game is not supposed to roll over and let you man handle it. Challenge must be present. I think most of the anti-nerfers have an issue with is that they're barely good enough to play on the difficulties they'd like to play. And they need a top **** class to hang. If people just accepted where they stand and kept trying to get better, we'd have far less whining.

Gold is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be pretty hard. And Platinum is stopped to be ridiculously hard. If you can rock Gold with one class, but can't consistently carry a team on Silver with any others, you're probably one of these people.


I agree with you about the difficulty and about people needing to practice, but that shouldn't come at the cost of your favorite character(s). Some of the people upset about nerfs are simply upset because their favorite classes were nerfed, not because the game is now more difficult for them. 

I'll give you an example: I like the destroyer a lot. I think he looks cool, I like his passive ability (really
like his frags), and although I don’t use the missile launcher (didn’t have
good experiences with it, so I switched to all frag), I think that’s a cool
power too. So was I excited that he was slightly nerfed? No, of course not; no
one is going to be happy when a class
they like is made less powerful. That being said, I never really played him
past Silver (I prefer more mobile classes for anything above that difficulty,
and he’s about as immobile as it gets). So if I were to complain about his nerf,
I would be doing so simply from the perspective of having used him when he was
better, and preferring him that way; he’s the class I use when I just want to
shoot some guns, and/or when I want to get the most out of a gun.

 

The point I’m trying to make is, while I’m sure plenty of
people complain because they’re pissed off they can’t rely on one character
after it has been nerfed, there are plenty of people who complain simply
because they like the character. I play a Vorcha sentinel, Asari Justicar and
Sentinel, both Geth, Paladin, both Volus, Batarian Soldier, Slayer, Kroguard
and Turian Ghost, and a nerf to any of them wouldn’t make me happy, simply
because I enjoy all the aforementioned classes. Just playing devil's advocate.



It's amazing how closed  minded so many are to this concept. Basically, their point is if anyone complains about a nerf, it is because they suck at the game.

#148
Mr Goodcat

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i have no issue with the concept of nerfing none at all what i take issue with is the things people on here want nerfing and the dubious reasons they give for it to be nerfed. i was all for the stunlocking getting nerfed/sorted but i am against TG, GI or enemy nerf

#149
DullahansXMark

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Right. We don't need threads, BioWare is smart enough to balance their own game on their own.

#150
Dark Tlaloc

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DullahansXMark wrote...

Right. We don't need threads, BioWare is smart enough to balance their own game on their own.


Again to play Devil's advocate, recently a thread of Collectors not taking proper biotic damage lead to the devs taking a look and realizing there were some bugs. So fan support helps.