673 réponses à ce sujet

[Alikain]

I don't get people who choose to let loghain join the warden. Here is a man who killed his best friend son, for his own selfish reason. It's not like the son wasn't anybody but his king. For man to go that far doesn't Deserve any Honour in or death. In all my play through I killed him not because he killed the wardens but because he killed his king and kept speaking how awful the king was. Same can be said for Anora. To me they are both ungrateful.

[Mary Kirby]

Monica21 wrote...

How many people does Alistair try to guilt me into killing? How many people do I kill out of self-preservation? Nobody's saying the Warden is a pacifist, but there is a distinct difference between killing people because they are trying to kill you, and killing a man who's on his knees and has just surrendered.

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

[Scott Sion]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

plnero wrote...
On a serious note I can't bring myself to let Logain live. I did the Human Noble origin first so the way I look at it, it would be like having Alistar trying to convince me not to kill Arl Howe. Arl Howe killed my mother and father and there's no way I'm letting him live after that, good reason or not. Duncan was Alistars father figure; how am I supposed to tell him to let it go when I couldn't let what Howe did go?

I've stated before that I would let Howe live if it were he in Loghain's place. If a Warden says, hey, we should really think about recruiting him, then I'd do it.

It doesn't matter if your reasons for doing so are selfish or selfless, if you put Howe in a position where there is any chance he can put stuff in your food or realize your back is to him, you deserve what you get. Especially if you're a human noble, who by an odd coincidence has the strongest selfish reasons to kill him.

(One might argue that the same is true of Nathaniel, except that it eventually transpires he has no intention of taking advantage of these oppurtunities.)

I really didn't care that it was selfish, he killed my mother and father. There was a lot I would have sacrificed to see him dead.

[Persephone]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

How many people does Alistair try to guilt me into killing? How many people do I kill out of self-preservation? Nobody's saying the Warden is a pacifist, but there is a distinct difference between killing people because they are trying to kill you, and killing a man who's on his knees and has just surrendered.

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

Can't speak for Monica, but my Canon Warden spared Caladrius, yes.

[Monica21]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

How many people does Alistair try to guilt me into killing? How many people do I kill out of self-preservation? Nobody's saying the Warden is a pacifist, but there is a distinct difference between killing people because they are trying to kill you, and killing a man who's on his knees and has just surrendered.

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

I've had playthroughs where I have, but the circumstances of his surrender are quite a bit different from what I recall.

[TheBlackAdder13]

David Gaider wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
That completely changes your point. If your original assumption is that you are making all these decisions with no input from anyone with any knowledge, then you can't disregard that Riordan is that knowledge. Therefore, your decision is not selfish, regardless of how you feel about Alistair. Your decision is based on what a senior Warden is telling you is the best course of action.

And you picked him over the man you said you loved, and who trusted you. And that doesn't constitute a betrayal on your part whatsoever. Yes, got it.

What about this? In my playthrough, my warden clearly saw that Alistari had absolutely no desire to be king and told Anora he'd make her queen in accordance with Alistair's wishes. However, in the conversation, he also told Anora that there's no way he could spare Loghain, her father, for his crimes (as Alistair clearly would want), leading Anora to betray the warden and Alistair at the landsmeet. Had the warden made Anora queen after this incident at the landsmeet she clearly would have had Alistair executed (this is the great betrayl of Alistair). However, as a result, my warden made Alistair king and he STILL ****ed about it and acted as if it was some massive betrayl. Is this then not selfish of Alistair? My warden was always looking out for Alistair's desires and yet, Alistair still ****ed about it. Is this not then selfish of Alistair? It seems that even if you RP exactly as Alistair would want, he's still unpleasent and unhappy. #Irpedtheonlyselflesswarden 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 27 octobre 2012 - 09:03 .

[The Elder King]

Oh, yeah, in the dalish and elf Warden playthroughs I gladly killed Loghain to avenge the elves he agreed to sold into slavery. And my other Wardens weren't happy about this too.

[TEWR]

David Gaider wrote...

You can dislike Alistair or Anora just fine without coming across as an inbred chimp

How dare you insult the name of chimps everywhere by comparing BSN posters to them, inbred or otherwise!

Mary Kirby wrote...

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

Speaking only for myself, I always spare him. Though I make him give up everything first. Money, the Elves, the evidence. He's lucky to leave with his hide intact.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 octobre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Scott Sion]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

How many people does Alistair try to guilt me into killing? How many people do I kill out of self-preservation? Nobody's saying the Warden is a pacifist, but there is a distinct difference between killing people because they are trying to kill you, and killing a man who's on his knees and has just surrendered.

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

Sparing him is sort of pointless. I'm pretty sure he tells you that he has the proof on him then tries to use it as a bargaining chip. Not 100% sure on that though.

[Persephone]

Alikain wrote...

I don't get people who choose to let loghain join the warden. Here is a man who killed his best friend son, for his own selfish reason.

Cailan's death was his own doing. If you fight on the front lines, give incompetent commands and ignore everyone's advice, your fate is sealed.

Loghain urged Cailan to stay away from the front lines. Cailan refused. Then he must bear the risks/consequences. War is merciless that way.

[The Elder King]

Monica21 wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...



Did you spare Caladrius, then?

I've had playthroughs where I have, but the circumstances of his surrender are quite a bit different from what I recall.

There was the fact of the sacrifice of the elves, but I thing there was an option of letting him go without killing the elves. Not sure about it though, because he did die in my every single playthrogh (blood mage Warden included)

[Frocharocha]

Alikain wrote...

I don't get people who choose to let loghain join the warden. Here is a man who killed his best friend son, for his own selfish reason. It's not like the son wasn't anybody but his king. For man to go that far doesn't Deserve any Honour in or death. In all my play through I killed him not because he killed the wardens but because he killed his king and kept speaking how awful the king was. Same can be said for Anora. To me they are both ungrateful.

Loghain is a good man.  He's just delusional, he doesn't care with the blight, he's more worried with the throne problems and the war threats made by Orlais. When he joins the Warden's and slay the Wrchdemon, Cailan spirits shwos up and forgives him.

But yeah, he's a bad king.

[Nashimura]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

How many people does Alistair try to guilt me into killing? How many people do I kill out of self-preservation? Nobody's saying the Warden is a pacifist, but there is a distinct difference between killing people because they are trying to kill you, and killing a man who's on his knees and has just surrendered.

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

I think i took his offer for more power  wow, my Canon Warden was worse than i remembered. I did nice things too....promise, i healed the werewolves....

[Persephone]

hhh89 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...



Did you spare Caladrius, then?

I've had playthroughs where I have, but the circumstances of his surrender are quite a bit different from what I recall.

There was the fact of the sacrifice of the elves, but I thing there was an option of letting him go without killing the elves. Not sure about it though, because he did die in my every single playthrogh (blood mage Warden included)

There is that option, yes.

Besides, the cirumstances of Caladrius' surrender ARE vastly different.

[The Elder King]

Persephone wrote...

Alikain wrote...

I don't get people who choose to let loghain join the warden. Here is a man who killed his best friend son, for his own selfish reason.

Cailan's death was his own doing. If you fight on the front lines, give incompetent commands and ignore everyone's advice, your fate is sealed.

Loghain urged Cailan to stay away from the front lines. Cailan refused. Then he must bear the risks/consequences. War is merciless that way.

That only meant that Cailan wouldn't have died, but the soldiers would. He would've probably died regardless, but Loghain's army might have changed the fate of the battle.
Or maybe (probably) not, but then they'd have waited for the Orlesian troops, but Loghain was against it. So what should've they done, in your opinion? The plan was Loghain's idea, not Cailan's. Only Cailan's presence in the front lines was Cailan's decision.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Honestly, I find it easiest to let Alistair duel Loghain. That way the entire mess is bypassed and Loghain dies as he lived: a total failure.

[Wulfram]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

Caladrius is the only occasion my Warden didn't accept someone's surrender.

Offering to kill someone's dad really isn't a good way to beg for your life.

[TEWR]

I don't get people who choose to let loghain join the warden. Here is a man who killed his best friend son, for his own selfish reason

Loghain didn't kill Cailan. Cailan's death was, in fact, Cailan's own doing. Loghain was torn by the decision -- as word of god, the toolset, and his dialogue tells us -- but he once made a promise to Maric that no one man would ever be more important then the entire kingdom.

Cailan insisted he be on the front lines with the Grey Wardens because he desired "glory". Fighting in war means you may end up paying the price.

[The Elder King]

Persephone wrote...



There is that option, yes.

Besides, the cirumstances of Caladrius' surrender ARE vastly different.

And what are those cirumstances? The fact that Caladrius was a blood mage slaver? The fact that Loghain might still be useful (and on this, I repeat, Riordan should've been less criptic), while you can obtain the info you need from Caladrius regardless his fate?

[Persephone]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Honestly, I find it easiest to let Alistair duel Loghain. That way the entire mess is bypassed and Loghain dies as he lived: a total failure.

Wow.

Just WOW.

Read The Stolen Throne.

[Scott Sion]

Persephone wrote...

Alikain wrote...

I don't get people who choose to let loghain join the warden. Here is a man who killed his best friend son, for his own selfish reason.

Cailan's death was his own doing. If you fight on the front lines, give incompetent commands and ignore everyone's advice, your fate is sealed.

Loghain urged Cailan to stay away from the front lines. Cailan refused. Then he must bear the risks/consequences. War is merciless that way.

He entered the battlefield thinking Logain would stick to the plan and have his back. If he had told Logain he wasn't willing to risk his troops on Cailans plan that's one thing, but he let Cailan go in thinking he had his back when really he didn't. He wasn't expecting the Warden to light to beacon and was going to use that as an excuse. Logain never intended to help in that battle.

Modifié par plnero, 27 octobre 2012 - 09:13 .

[Persephone]

Filament wrote...

Caladrius was a lot more noble than Loghain tbh, at least he was honest with himself about being a rotten slaver

Post recruitment  dialogue suggest otherwise. Completely.<_<

[The Elder King]

Wulfram wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Did you spare Caladrius, then?

Caladrius is the only occasion my Warden didn't accept someone's surrender.

Offering to kill someone's dad really isn't a good way to beg for your life.

The Warden could still let him go without hurting anyone. While I killed Caladrius every single time, considering the place he was from, and what he was, it's natural to offer something like this.