673 réponses à ce sujet

[GloriousDame]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Because suddenly a character developed into someone a bit bitter because of how he was BETRAYED by the Warden (the decision back in DAO that caused him to become a "wandering drunk" in DA2)?

It's only a betrayal if the Warden and Alistair are good friends.  They do not have to be.  It's entirely possible to play a Warden who feels kidnapped/blackmailed by the order who takes every single opportunity to tell Alistair that Duncan deserved to die, and to not indulge him in his grief.

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

traitor-daughter

What is with all this hate and bitterness? It all seems poorly unfounded because you just happen to not like her personality. 

On the second, you're right. I don't like her traitorous, power-hungry personality.

On the first, no. He's still a fellow Grey Warden and the Grey Wardens, King Cailan and his army are betrayed by Logain, but by not administering proper justice on Logain for treason he committed, it's a betrayal even if the PC and Alistair are not friends.

[Frocharocha]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Frocharocha wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It was explained that they aren't canon, simply a particular scenerio that happens if all the characters are in the right places. For example: Wynne being alive in Asunder isn't canon, Alistair being King isn't canon, ect.

So the actual history line must be;

-Loghain kills Cailan.
-The warden dies killing the archdemon, loghain survives, Anora is the queen, Alistar has alchoolism problems
-Hawke is a mage. truns itn oteh champion by killing Arishok. Side with the mages.
-Morrigan doesn't have a daughter.
-Flemeth didn't need to be summoned.

There's no universal canon. Unlike the Fallout series, for instance. Each player creates their own 'canon,' although the rectons do result in certain scenerios being universal for everyone (i.e. Leliana being alive).

But she can't die neither: 
 

[upsettingshorts]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

On the second, you're right. I don't like her traitorous, power-hungry personality.

She's none of those things.  But hey, she gets in the way of precious Alistair and his "rightful" throne so I suppose we've got to assume her motivations are dastardly.

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

On the first, no. He's still a fellow Grey Warden and the Grey Wardens, King Cailan and his army are betrayed by Logain, but by not administering proper justice on Logain for treason he committed, it's a betrayal even if the PC and Alistair are not friends. 

Who says I have to like the Wardens? 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:48 .

[Terrorize69]

Frocharocha wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Frocharocha wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It was explained that they aren't canon, simply a particular scenerio that happens if all the characters are in the right places. For example: Wynne being alive in Asunder isn't canon, Alistair being King isn't canon, ect.

So the actual history line must be;

-Loghain kills Cailan.
-The warden dies killing the archdemon, loghain survives, Anora is the queen, Alistar has alchoolism problems
-Hawke is a mage. truns itn oteh champion by killing Arishok. Side with the mages.
-Morrigan doesn't have a daughter.
-Flemeth didn't need to be summoned.

There's no universal canon. Unlike the Fallout series, for instance. Each player creates their own 'canon,' although the rectons do result in certain scenerios being universal for everyone (i.e. Leliana being alive).

But she can't die neither: 
 

Personally my fave plot twist in DA, while some are "upset", I'm excitied despite my choice changing. I look forward to see the mystery uncovered in DA3.

Modifié par Terrorize69, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:49 .

[upsettingshorts]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Personally my fave plot twist in DA, while some are "upset", I'm excitied despite my choice changing. I look forward to see the mystery uncovered in DA3.

They're upset because they (or some people they read about on the internet) triggered a deathblow animation upon killing her that resulted in her head being lopped off.  

Recovering from another kind of blow is at least vaguely believable given that Andraste's ashes did cure a man in DA:O, but decapitation is a bit hard to recover from.  But that's an animation issue and I don't imagine DG and the writers even thought about it much.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:51 .

[Shadow Fox]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

On the second, you're right. I don't like her traitorous, power-hungry personality.

She's none of those things.  But hey, she gets in the way of precious Alistair and his "rightful" throne so I suppose we've got to assume her motivations are dastardly.

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

On the first, no. He's still a fellow Grey Warden and the Grey Wardens, King Cailan and his army are betrayed by Logain, but by not administering proper justice on Logain for treason he committed, it's a betrayal even if the PC and Alistair are not friends. 

Who says I have to like the Wardens? 

Funnily enough I got her support and let Alistair kill Loghain then gave her the throne no betrayal despite my warden lying about sparing her father.

[GloriousDame]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

On the second, you're right. I don't like her traitorous, power-hungry personality.

She's none of those things.  But hey, she gets in the way of precious Alistair and his "rightful" throne so I suppose we've got to assume her motivations are dastardly.

What? She's not power-hungry? She's not traitorous? Wait---how is she not power-hungry?



You know what, forget it, I'm not even going to bother if people are so blinded as to believe she is not power-hungry.


edit: I didn't see the second part of your post. You don't have to like the Grey Wardens but a lot of men and women lost their lives because Logain betrayed their King.

Modifié par ArinTheirinCousland, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:56 .

[MilaBanilla]

Vicious wrote...

There IS canon like it or not. It's just cherry picked so people don't get TOO mad. Example: Wynne dies in Asunder.

Wynne dies at the circle for me 
At least her death is pushed off for a couple of years.

[upsettingshorts]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Funnily enough I got her support and let Alistair kill Loghain then gave her the throne no betrayal despite my warden lying about sparing her father.

The only thing she'll back out of in that scenario is marrying Alistair if he's the one who killed her father.  You can still do it though, and she'll go through with the marriage. 

[The Elder King]

ScarMK wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

He IS a two faced jerk...

And yes he is a traitor, and clearly he does desire power deep down, since he whines about losing his chance at power if you meet him in the Hanged Man.

I'm pretty sure that's for a hardened Alistair.  I've had an unhardedened Alistair willingly and happily give up his claim to the throne.  He isn't exiled and stays with the wardens.

I don't remember if he had problems with not becoming king if hardened, but the Hanged Man scene happens only if you decided to spare Loghain, regardless if hardened or not. If hardened, there's at least a chance of the not killing or exiling anyone: Alistair and Anora as rulers, and Loghain as a Warden. He still left the party. 

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Anora, that lying witch, she makes Morrigan look pleasant., at least with Morrigan you know where you stand...Anora, can swing which ever the wind blows, way two-faced for me. After she lied on me then getting me imprisoned, that sort of did it for me. King Alistair all the way. Alistiar just had some growing up to do!

[upsettingshorts]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

What? She's not power-hungry? She's not traitorous? Wait---how is she not power-hungry?

You could start by listening to what she actually says - before, during, and after the Landsmeet - and understand her situation and Ferelden's situation.  Then consider all of the potential ways the story can end for her, and the universal opinion - which she shares - about Alistair's capability as a monarch.

I know it's hard but try to develop some sense of empathy and more importantly, perspective.

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

You know what, forget it, I'm not even going to bother if people are so blinded as to believe she is not power-hungry.

Oh okay then, suit yourself.  

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Anora, that lying witch, she makes Morrigan look pleasant., at least with Morrigan you know where you stand...Anora, can swing which ever the wind blows, way two-faced for me. After she lied on me then getting me imprisoned, that sort of did it for me. King Alistair all the way. Alistiar just had some growing up to do!

You mean the part where she says not to tell anyone that it's her in the armor, and you tell Ser Cauthrien that it's Anora in the armor?

Who is betraying who, here?  Oh right it's the Warden.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:58 .

[Shadow Fox]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Funnily enough I got her support and let Alistair kill Loghain then gave her the throne no betrayal despite my warden lying about sparing her father.

The only thing she'll back out of in that scenario is marrying Alistair if he's the one who killed her father.  You can still do it though, and she'll go through with the marriage. 

Exactly I don't see where all the Anora is a backstabber talk comes from

[Terrorize69]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Personally my fave plot twist in DA, while some are "upset", I'm excitied despite my choice changing. I look forward to see the mystery uncovered in DA3.

They're upset because they (or some people they read about on the internet) triggered a deathblow animation upon killing her that resulted in her head being lopped off.  

Recovering from another kind of blow is at least vaguely believable given that Andraste's ashes did cure a man in DA:O, but decapitation is a bit hard to recover from.  But that's an animation issue and I don't imagine DG and the writers even thought about it much.

I know, great right?  Even bigger mystery!

What sounds better..

- Person you didn't like stabbed, and manages to survive the wound.

or

- Person you didn't like beheaded, lives to tell the tale.

In a world of magic and divine powers, I'm certainly looking forward to it. It futher adds to the fact that Leliana may be a reincarnation of Andraste

[The Elder King]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Funnily enough I got her support and let Alistair kill Loghain then gave her the throne no betrayal despite my warden lying about sparing her father.

The only thing she'll back out of in that scenario is marrying Alistair if he's the one who killed her father.  You can still do it though, and she'll go through with the marriage. 

It's the same with an hardened Alistair with an agreement of ruling together before the Landsmeet and with Loghain spared. Though I don't know which one of them is more pissed about how the Loghain's situation was resolved in the two paths. I'd put my bet on Alistair.

Modifié par hhh89, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:58 .

[TheJediSaint]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Funnily enough I got her support and let Alistair kill Loghain then gave her the throne no betrayal despite my warden lying about sparing her father.

The only thing she'll back out of in that scenario is marrying Alistair if he's the one who killed her father.  You can still do it though, and she'll go through with the marriage. 

Exactly I don't see where all the Anora is a backstabber talk comes from

Headcanon

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Funnily enough I got her support and let Alistair kill Loghain then gave her the throne no betrayal despite my warden lying about sparing her father.

The only thing she'll back out of in that scenario is marrying Alistair if he's the one who killed her father.  You can still do it though, and she'll go through with the marriage. 

Exactly I don't see where all the Anora is a backstabber talk comes from

O.O Really?  What about when she lies when you try to rescue her from the Arl of Denerim's estate, you know when you go to rescue her.  She flat out lies that you are there to save her.  I'd call that a backstabber.

[The Elder King]

Terrorize69 wrote...


I know, great right?  Even bigger mystery!

What sounds better..

- Person you didn't like stabbed, and manages to survive the wound.

or

- Person you didn't like beheaded, lives to tell the tale.

In a world of magic and divine powers, I'm certainly looking forward to it. It futher adds to the fact that Leliana may be a reincarnation of Andraste

They'll not going to make a different outcome for people that cut her head, since I doubt there's a way to import this. And you final suggestion (which we discussed in another thread) will make me laugh for an entire day (for the idiocy, not because I like the idea).
Though I'd have like to have the option to kill her, if she's Andraste's reincarnation. I'm curious to see how pissed the Maker will be and what will be his reaction.

[upsettingshorts]

hhh89 wrote...

It's the same with an hardened Alistair with an agreement of ruling together before the Landsmeet and with Loghain spared. Though I don't know which one of them is more pissed about how the Loghain's situation was resolved in the two paths. I'd put my bet on Alistair.

They'll still get married though, that's my canon playthrough actually.

Hardened Alistair marries Anora, but angrily leaves the party when Loghain is made a member of the Grey Wardens. 

Loghain dies killing the Archdemon.  Alistair and Anora rule together.

It's totally possible.

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

O.O Really?  What about when she lies when you try to rescue her from the Arl of Denerim's estate, you know when you go to rescue her.  She flat out lies that you are there to save her.  I'd call that a backstabber. 

You mean the part where she says not to tell anyone that it's her in the armor, and you tell Ser Cauthrien that it's Anora in the armor?

Who is betraying who, here?  Oh right it's the Warden.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 octobre 2012 - 09:03 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

So he changes his mind about wanting power, after so badly NOT wanting it that he drops his girlfriend like burnt toast over it?

And if whether hardened or not, he still remains and immense p*ssy.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 26 octobre 2012 - 09:04 .

[The Elder King]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...



O.O Really?  What about when she lies when you try to rescue her from the Arl of Denerim's estate, you know when you go to rescue her.  She flat out lies that you are there to save her.  I'd call that a backstabber.

Some of my Wardens would applaud that choice, since they'd believe it was a smart thing to do. If the role were reversed, those Wardens would totally do the same things.

[Shadow Fox]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Funnily enough I got her support and let Alistair kill Loghain then gave her the throne no betrayal despite my warden lying about sparing her father.

The only thing she'll back out of in that scenario is marrying Alistair if he's the one who killed her father.  You can still do it though, and she'll go through with the marriage. 

Exactly I don't see where all the Anora is a backstabber talk comes from

O.O Really?  What about when she lies when you try to rescue her from the Arl of Denerim's estate, you know when you go to rescue her.  She flat out lies that you are there to save her.  I'd call that a backstabber.

Ignoring the fact that she asks you not to let them know who she is?You're pretty much selling her out in an attempt to save your own ass.

[upsettingshorts]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ignoring the fact that she asks you not to let them know who she is?You're pretty much selling her out in an attempt to save your own ass.

Hey look someone else actually paid attention to that scene, fancy that!

By doing that you demonstrate to Anora that you're either an idiot who can't follow instructions or someone who can't be trusted, or both.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 octobre 2012 - 09:07 .

[anillee]

In one of my playthroughs, Anora didn't betray me and I left her Queen. Alistair and my warden set out to rebuild the Wardens.

In another, a hardened Alistair seemed to make a good king. *shrug* I guess it's more a matter of personal preference.

I don't understand all the Alistair hate, yet people *love* Anders from DA2. I mean, how can you call ANYONE a whiner if you're not talking about Anders? Holy crap, that guy is awful.

[The Elder King]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

It's the same with an hardened Alistair with an agreement of ruling together before the Landsmeet and with Loghain spared. Though I don't know which one of them is more pissed about how the Loghain's situation was resolved in the two paths. I'd put my bet on Alistair.

They'll still get married though, that's my canon playthrough actually.

Hardened Alistair marries Anora, but angrily leaves the party when Loghain is made a member of the Grey Wardens. 

Loghain dies killing the Archdemon.  Alistair and Anora rule together.

It's totally possible.

.

I did it once. I've yet to decide if my canon playthrough will be this, or a similar one with Loghain killed and the DR. (I'm replaying DAO and DA2 for my canon DA3 import). But regardless, I think Anora and Alistair together is the best outcome for Ferelden.

Modifié par hhh89, 26 octobre 2012 - 09:08 .