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Banning people over a glitch because it's "unfair" is not plausible


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#251
hudder92

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Bryan Johnson wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Jiovanie- wrote...


BioWare doesn't release broken content; they relase content, to expect perfection is quite ludicrous. Nothing in this world is perfect, and this world will NEVER be perfect. The sooner you learn to apply that to everything in this world, the better. 

We the community asked for weekly patches; that's our fault. I would rather have monthly patches as opposed to weekly patches. The product doesn't have to advertise that there might be glitches or bugs within it. You as a person should have enough common sense to know that not everything is as it seems. 

I'm losing my faith in humanity everytime I visit the internet. It's a shame really.


Lol so am I. You are willing and accepting to pay for a product with multiple issues. Where does the threshold begin and end?
I am holding BW accountable for their actions.They released a product with multiple bugs/glitches. Fact. Nothing more. I fully understand it is a part of the product. You should not make ludicrous assumptions. I do construction. I am only allowed to be off by a tenth of an inch when laying a tile floor. There are multiple examples of perfect or near perfect products. My main question was is BW contempt with the quality of products they are releasing. Did I ever legally agree to bugs/glitches?

"I bought a controller from Best Buy. The right analog would stick a little,causing the product to not work properly or as intended. I then returned it to Best Buy to exchange it. They gave me no trouble. The new one I got is also broken. The light on the Play and charge does not work. I have returned the product and got another one. (Third) With No trouble. If I wanted my money back I would be able to get it back. Neither of these issue cause the controller to be unusable,but by definition both of these controllers are broken. As they do not function
in the way they are intended to. Proven by Best Buy willingness to fix my issue.

So while these problems barely effect anything,there is still an issue. A issue worthy of refunding my money or replacing my product. Fixing my issue. "


cowwy wrote...


Bryan might respond to this as well, but I would like to reiterate what he said earlier.

They fixed the original missile glitch.

People like you keep saying that they are not doing their job, and that they don't care about the game, and make every ridiculous claim, but the fact of the matter is that they are VERY OBVIOUSLY working on the issues.
They've stated multiple times that they are working on fixing these issues but they have to test them and go through certification processes that are both expensive and time consuming, so they try to get the most
bang for their buck, by releasing patches with more than just "Fixed an issue where players could use infinite missile launchers".

Also  take that legal argument to a court of law. Tell me how that goes for you. I don't claim to be a legal expert, but I'm pretty sure you've received the product that you've paid for.


No never once did I ever claim BW was not doing their job. BW does a very good job. That is your mistaken interpretation of what I said. I am asking was BW aware of the Missile Glitch before release? If not,why not?
If so, then BW was contempt to release a glitch/buggy product? We are suppose to accept that with open arms? Not me.

Really? Buggy DLC was advertised? I assume it was advertised as really "cool" content. Never did they tell me they were releasing a buggy product they may get some user's banned.

To the Baseball analogy. If the MLB placed the enhancements into the players lockers,then yes the MLB would also be held responsible. As BW has placed the Glitch within your character screen/stats game. People are not exploiting ways to create the glitch. They are exploiting a glitch that BW's product has placed within their game.
It is wrong and should be considered cheating by all means.




Okay so ill attempt to answer this from an industry standard/computer engineering practices. Do we want our game to have bugs in it, nope, who would? Is there a point where you have to say enough is enough, ship the product the way it is? Absolutely 

Software is not something you can compare to a real physical thing, anyone in the industry will tell you. NASA for example had a mars lander lost because it didnt know how to calculate metric properly. In software a simple logic gate doubles the complexity of your system. An int can be 2^32 different valid values, do you want to try and account for every single one of those in a single value?

Were we aware of the missile glitch before launch, nope. Because that is not a path that we took. I can stand here with pretty good certainty if it wasnt for the internet less than 1% of the people he know about missile glitching now would have no idea what that is. Finding a bug is one thing, being able to follow instructions to do it is another. It took a couple hundred thousand/millions of people 3 months to find it, 200 people over the course of 1-2 years is no where near the same.

There is a video series that is on the top of my head that used to be on the escapist where the person talks about the industry. I would recommend you watch some of them to find out what it is like because I can assure you it is vastly different working with software then it is working with construction.


I applaud you guys at Bioware for what you do and what you have to put up with on a daily basis. 

There isn't a single piece of software that is put out bug free. I thought that was common knowledge. Look at Microsoft. If it was bug free there wouldn't be windows updates every third tuesday of the month.

come on people cut them a little slack already.

#252
SavagelyEpic

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lolerk53 wrote...

SavagelyEpic wrote...

lolerk53 wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...


If multiple ban waves are not enough of a warning for exploiters, then they deserve a permanent ban.

Take a second of reading and see that the people who are activily on the forums are not everyone.
Heck we are the small minority.
They have no clue about the ban waves.
NONE



Completely and utterly irrelevant. You don't need to visit the forums to have enough common sense to realize that cheating is cheating.


rmccowen wrote...

Shakespeare212 wrote...


There are NOT two sides to the argument.  Cheating is cheating.  Anything else is a rationalization.  There is no split in the community.  There are players and there are cheaters who refuse to take responsibility for their griefing behavior that violates the terms of service.


This is very well said.


+1

I don't like being didactic or using absolutes, but in this specific case you're an idiot if you can't see that, OP/lolerk/rest of you spoiled six year olds.

As I said, not all glitches are obvious.
Some would seem like a game mechanic.


In what world is infinite nukes considered a game mechanic!?

#253
WolfStar84

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massive difference between shooting from a corner and glitching a gun to shoot rockets. Quit ya ****ing and deal with it. If you don't like it then don't play

#254
PaperAlien

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I'm still confused about the difference between taking advantage of Snap Freeze priming CEs when it shouldn't and characters getting extra skill points when they shouldn't.

#255
lolerk53

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SavagelyEpic wrote...

lolerk53 wrote...

SavagelyEpic wrote...

lolerk53 wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...


If multiple ban waves are not enough of a warning for exploiters, then they deserve a permanent ban.

Take a second of reading and see that the people who are activily on the forums are not everyone.
Heck we are the small minority.
They have no clue about the ban waves.
NONE



Completely and utterly irrelevant. You don't need to visit the forums to have enough common sense to realize that cheating is cheating.


rmccowen wrote...

Shakespeare212 wrote...


There are NOT two sides to the argument.  Cheating is cheating.  Anything else is a rationalization.  There is no split in the community.  There are players and there are cheaters who refuse to take responsibility for their griefing behavior that violates the terms of service.


This is very well said.


+1

I don't like being didactic or using absolutes, but in this specific case you're an idiot if you can't see that, OP/lolerk/rest of you spoiled six year olds.

As I said, not all glitches are obvious.
Some would seem like a game mechanic.


In what world is infinite nukes considered a game mechanic!?

Do you people even read what I said?
NEVER DID I SAY THAT I'M SPECIFICLY TALKING ABOUT THE MISSILE GLITCH

#256
ryanshowseason3

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Bryan Johnson wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Bryan, I don't mean to be rude, but you should probably remember that this is the internet, and most people aren't going to change their minds just because someone posts a rational, coherent set of reasons that they're wrong. The bull**** hate for the QA team isn't going to dissipate, even if it absolutely should.

Maybe NDA prohibits talking about this too, but how well do people comment out their coding and **** in the video game industry? It seems like for bugfixing, it'd be great to detail what a specific bit of code was doing, but comments can be really time consuming. With the deadlines you guys have to meet, is that something that often ends up falling by the wayside a bit? Are a lot of the problems unrelated to that, and more related to using a game engine designed around single-player for a multiplayer mode?

Just curious.


I am well aware, its not those people I am after, it is the rational ones I wish to give more knowledge to.

Comments are present in the code base, you also have to consider you are using someone elses technology. IE we use Unreal Engine 3, so we have to use code that Epic wrote. You also have many different styles of code that you can write, the industry isn't "mature" (programming) as there are universal standards. I mean look at coding standards the industry as a whole cant even comment on what is correct for capitalization. 

Sure some stuff is not as well documented as well as it could be, but once again this is universal.


Do you guys have a coding standard at bioware? Like directions on how to code in your base? Everywhere I have worked at has had one.

We're actually in the process of re working the thing.

The goal is to have the code read like prose.

We are getting rid of comments because they are unnecesarry at this point actually.

We're taking a lot of our ideas from a series called "clean code"

Modifié par ryanshowseason3, 29 octobre 2012 - 01:25 .


#257
ryanshowseason3

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ray12a wrote...

If you guys could code as well as you pass the buck, we, or rather you, wouldn't be having these problems.

It seems like you guys are just about incapable of implementing features without screwing up something else in the process. How much are you paying your QA testers? Do you guys even play the game? I cannot begin to comprehend the majority of blunders that get by a series of "qualified professionals". If he/ she/ they can't perform up to par, I'd be more than happy to take that job off of their hands.

My advice: Quit stalling. Quit lying. Enough with the mistakes, the rework and time squandering. Do your jobs. People are paying for your product, and these increasingly ridiculous shortcomings could end up costing you more than manhours.


If you work at a software company that has no bugs whatsoever. Congratulations you work at the best software company in existence.

The rest of the world has bugs. They happen in software period, end of story. I wouldn't expect a non programmer to know this, and heck coming out of college with a degree I didn't know it either, I asked myself why bugs exist and why can't we fix them all.

Working in a multi million line codebase has changed my tune though.

Its like if you got all the great authors through the centuries together and told them each to write a chapter of a story. Then expecting the book to flow and read in a uniform manner.

#258
DABOSS120

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Reload canceling is exploiting the system just like the missile glitch which is just annoying

#259
silencekills

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DABOSS120 wrote...

Reload canceling is exploiting the system just like the missile glitch which is just annoying


Yeah, yeah, very funny.

Modifié par silencekills, 29 octobre 2012 - 01:42 .


#260
DABOSS120

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Oh so no one likes that one because everyone does it. I but it's no different from the missile glitches. It's an exploit

#261
Impius

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Just for the case smo is never reading forums, is new to the game and sees, he can do 6/6/6/6/6.

How he should know that it is wrong? He get's banned.

And, why bioware never responds on threads like that?
http://social.biowar.../index/14614869

I can understand why u dont want to give feedback on connection issues, since it is not all in your hand, but i can't understand why you r not willing to make the connectionlosts less bad for us.

#262
Methew

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Impius wrote...

Just for the case smo is never reading forums, is new to the game and sees, he can do 6/6/6/6/6.

How he should know that it is wrong? He get's banned.

And, why bioware never responds on threads like that?
http://social.biowar.../index/14614869

Byran commented on the 6's glitch.

It's not bannable. At least not immediately. And you'll be fine once you either reset or promote.

I can understand why u dont want to give feedback on connection issues, since it is not all in your hand, but i can't understand why you r not willing to make the connectionlosts less bad for us.

Probably because they don't have any way of easing the pain that doesn't involve another patch? Even if they could, rewriting the game coding to lessen the effect of dropped connections would probably take a lot of man hours and stand in for a significant number of glitches and bugs getting fixed.

#263
Impius

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I suggest in the linked thread, that the consumables which get lost after a connection-loss, should simply stay, this would already help alot.

Look, it is about the customer-leissure-time, and lvl 4 consumables are not cheap and the invested time to get them is not low, at least around 20-25 MInutes.

The consumables just should get marked as used after you finished wave 11. It isn't utterly hard to code that.

#264
Methew

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Impius wrote...
The consumables just should get marked as used after you finished wave 11. It isn't utterly hard to code that.

:|

#265
Blitzkrieg_33

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So let me get this straight. Some people are butthurt about glitches that they probably would have never even known about had they not looked up "glitches ME3" in the first place?

I seriously doubt any one of these people complaining that "QA" didn't do their job have even discovered a glitch on their own, aside from a google search.

Play the game and enjoy it as it was intended. If you don't enjoy it that way, then please leave. The rest of us don't need, or want, you here.

Btw great job fielding questions from some of these people Bryan.

#266
Siran

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DABOSS120 wrote...

Oh so no one likes that one because everyone does it. I but it's no different from the missile glitches. It's an exploit


No, the Devs even stated that Reload canceling is a game mechanic, not an exploit. Stop finding excuses for missile glitchers.

#267
Siran

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Impius wrote...
The consumables just should get marked as used after you finished wave 11. It isn't utterly hard to code that.


So you know the ME3 code that well that you can make such a statement? Otherwise you're just grasping at straws here.

Yes, losing consumables is annoying, but surely not game-breaking. I usually have more than enough from my packs to cope with the occasional loss through dropped connections.

#268
The Smitchens

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Me I'm sick and tired of missile glitchers. It's stupidly hard finding people on platinum that aren't glitching like mad. I just want to game with some good gamers. Either we work together and kill the crap out of everything or we all screw up horribly and cuss a bit. Or three of us botch it horribly and watch the one guy in the group that knows what he's doing.

Usually I just push to boot the guys, but every so often one slips through the cracks.  When that happens I spend the entire match firing my gun while walking around spinning in circles.  It speaks volumes when you can come in second place while doing that.

Modifié par The Smitchens, 29 octobre 2012 - 02:48 .


#269
DABOSS120

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Heck I hate middle glitchers but there are far more important things wrong with the game.

#270
Impius

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Siran wrote...

Impius wrote...
The consumables just should get marked as used after you finished wave 11. It isn't utterly hard to code that.


So you know the ME3 code that well that you can make such a statement? Otherwise you're just grasping at straws here.

Yes, losing consumables is annoying, but surely not game-breaking. I usually have more than enough from my packs to cope with the occasional loss through dropped connections.


It is simply not hard to code and to realise. If it is ok for you to lose 20-25 MInutes of ur leisure-time for nothing, i am ok for that, but you can't speak for my leisure time. My Gaming-Time is rare (or in sense of ME3 UR), I can not play as much as I want to.

#271
ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame

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Bryan Johnson wrote...

Hmm we are lazy, interesting.

At least you admit it :P

#272
fallen_acolyte

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Too much time is being done researching and trying to stop missile glitches and not enough work is being done with the server issues. I rather be in a match with a missle gitcher than waste 5 mins trying to get into a lobby or getting DC in game.

#273
shodiswe

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The missile glitch is nothing... I joined a Platinum game once, midgame where sneezing at a mob would make it die, used flash freeze on 2 brutes and a Banshee and they instantly died... I tohught it was weird but tried again and whenever I shoot or used a power they instantly died... So I immediately left the game since I didn't want to play it that way... I think it was about a week ago. Really didn't want to think about it too much or have anything to do with it.

Also... How come SS on the N7 Shadow got bugged so badly? It can no loger strike bossmobs... Sure it's potentialy dangerous to do so but I still want to do crazy thign every now and then...
I should have reported it but I was just too tired and too disgusted to even think about it any more.. And I was in such a hurry to gey out, didn't want to have anythign to do with it and get banned by randomly joining an ongoing game that someone had "manipulated" by making chagnes in their gamefiles or something.
If the change had been lesser I might not have realized something was wrong but the NPC's died so easily that it made Bronze look impossibly hard!

#274
ryanshowseason3

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DABOSS120 wrote...

Oh so no one likes that one because everyone does it. I but it's no different from the missile glitches. It's an exploit


An exploit that raises the dps of a weapon.

The missile glitch reduces every enemy to a single trigger pool.

Semantics are important on this one buddy.

#275
ryanshowseason3

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Siran wrote...

Impius wrote...
The consumables just should get marked as used after you finished wave 11. It isn't utterly hard to code that.


So you know the ME3 code that well that you can make such a statement? Otherwise you're just grasping at straws here.

Yes, losing consumables is annoying, but surely not game-breaking. I usually have more than enough from my packs to cope with the occasional loss through dropped connections.


To be fair though I don't think it is a bad idea. To credit their loss at the same time as credits are added to the account at the end of the match. Database access is occuring at that time to modify your character level and credits awarded. I would imagine that many of the resources needed to perform this would be available, but no we don't know.