278 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryan Johnson]

Computron2000 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Ok I have a question for the OP, if baseball players are using steroids, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

This analogy is not correct. The correct one is as follows

If baseball players get forcefully injected with steroids in 1 in 10000 swings of the bat, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

The answer is yes.

Now in Bioware's defense, the entire ban threat is a time buying technique. They neeed time to fix it and if they can't patch it up through an update and require a patch, it will take even more time.

If they said, "We're sorry, if you get the glitch, until we fix it its fine because its our fault", every bad tom, dick and harry will exploit it because there are no negative consequences

I believe your analogy is incorrect because it removes the very thing we are discussing here and that is "choice". We arent banning people who come accross the thing accidentally we are banning those that viciously exploit it.

[megabeast37215]

ProtheanN7 wrote...

the missile glitch is not BW's mess........ they didn't design weapons with charge so unskill players could exploit the gameplay....... every missile glitcher deserves to be ban......

You will never hear me defend a missle glitcher... I'm actually pretty sad that charge weapons have to be modifed to try to halt it's spread. I really liked the old Acolyte... it synergized SO SO well with Biotic Charge... not so much now but it's still extremely good.

I would hate to see any changes to the Geth Plasma Shotgun. I think it's the best/most versatile weapon in the game... and to see such a fantastic weapon get changed because of the scumbag missle glitchers... well... that would be a very dark day for ME3 MP IMO.

[jpraelster93]

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Daynan wrote...

This post... it just totally misses the point. We don't need cheaters and exploiters to achieve community goals, and I don't want to hide behind cover while the exploiters earn credits for me.

Adapt or leave, we don't need or want people who do sh** like this.

I agree but I would love to see a fix but I am more understanding now deep down the reason the patches are so far and few between is the amount of money that has to be paid to patch the game which ea hates spending money if they dont have to

It's not an issue of money, it's an issue of having the resources and the manpower to fix, and test the fixes to make sure they don't break anything else. Also from what I understand the certification processes from Microsoft and Sony are pretty ridiculous and time consuming as well.

Dont kid yourself bioware has the resources to fix it but ea isnt willing to shell out 40,000 for them to try until they get it right 

Look at Bryan Johnson's post. Hopefully that will enlighten you a little.

I didnt say they could get it right the first time it would take multiple attempts but I think it can be done but then again I dont know that for a fact

[Virazhides]

Peter Parker said it best: With great power comes great responsibility - just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something. Don't cheat and you won't get banned. Exploiters and cheaters deserves a great big banhammer to the face.
Personally I think BioWare is doing a good job and they're pretty lenient, you know, they could have said that everyone who doesn't leave a match with a missileglitcher is taking advantage of anothers' cheating and banned them too, instead they allow us to finish the match if we leave the lobby afterwards.

[Kiernin]

Eriseley wrote...

genocidal villain wrote...

I've only paid attention to the last 2 random ban waves but 1600 people banned is pretty significant because if you look at the weekend operations the community barely makes it. The community, from my view, barely meets the quota at +/- 15%.

Wouldn't they specifically design challeneges to hit around that percentage no matter the community size so that it is...well...a challenege?

I think you are misunderstanding something here. I think you feel that the majority of the community actually cared about the Alliance goals in the past. The ONE time where we received a commendation pack from an Alliance goal, we completed that Operation. When the reward was some crappy pack that would be given to everyone regardless if you took part past your Squad completion or not, noone could be assed enough to bother. For the most part, the only times a Alliance goal is completed is when they happen to coincide with how people are already playing(delivery objective amounts, drone escorts, just plain extractions on ANY difficulty.)

[P51Mus7ang]

Pretty black and white to me, cheating plain and simple....I for one am glad Bioware takes proactive action....in the computer world cheating is like a game or patching a pot hole......probably will come back in another form, Bioware is doing a great job, IMHO

[cowwy]

Computron2000 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Ok I have a question for the OP, if baseball players are using steroids, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

This analogy is not correct. The correct one is as follows

If baseball players get forcefully injected with steroids in 1 in 10000 swings of the bat, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

The answer is yes.

Now in Bioware's defense, the entire ban threat is a time buying technique. They neeed time to fix it and if they can't patch it up through an update and require a patch, it will take even more time.

If they said, "We're sorry, if you get the glitch, until we fix it its fine because its our fault", every bad tom, dick and harry will exploit it because there are no negative consequences

I was referencing the missile glitch, but I see you are talking about the 6/6/6/6/6 glitch. Your analogy is also not quite correct either, because you are implying that it is unfixable. Obviously there is some grey area here but almost everyone who plays the game understands that they cannot get 6 points in every tree.

A more appropriate analogy would be if the players were handed a bat that made their swings extra powerful. They could continue to use the obviously unfair bat, and risk being found out and kicked from their team, or they could play the game the way it was meant to be played.

Edit: Typo

Modifié par cowwy, 27 octobre 2012 - 01:36 .

[k1ngl1ves]

Bryan:

What about the 6/6/6/6/6 glitch? I mistakenly did this on my Volus Adept and haven't been able to use him because I don't have any of those damn UR respec cards! It was posted that it is ban related by a Dev, hence why I won't use him since I ran into the "issue." How is this being corrected, and what of the people who don't follow BSN who risk being banned because of this mishap?

P.S. I'm trying to be civil about this...

[Mendelevosa]

Geth Platforms wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Hmm we are lazy, interesting.

well you guys didnt fix ML glitch, change all charge gun, i think you mess up kyrase even more, because you cant double shoot it anymroe, before anyone say anything, bioware say it ok, and you guys only came out two patchs and some patchs bring new glitch,( unable to SS altas) and when is that getting fix? next patchs? in another 6 months? op have some point, other then that you guys are great

You do know there are multiple ways of doing the glitch that people come across right? When Bioware eliminates one form of glitching, some undesirable decides to find a new way of doing it.

[Computron2000]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Ok I have a question for the OP, if baseball players are using steroids, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

This analogy is not correct. The correct one is as follows

If baseball players get forcefully injected with steroids in 1 in 10000 swings of the bat, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

The answer is yes.

Now in Bioware's defense, the entire ban threat is a time buying technique. They neeed time to fix it and if they can't patch it up through an update and require a patch, it will take even more time.

If they said, "We're sorry, if you get the glitch, until we fix it its fine because its our fault", every bad tom, dick and harry will exploit it because there are no negative consequences

I believe your analogy is incorrect because it removes the very thing we are discussing here and that is "choice". We arent banning people who come accross the thing accidentally we are banning those that viciously exploit it.

I'm referring to the 6/6/6/6/6 problem with the new characters. As far as i know (i may be wrong as i haven't gotten the glitch myself), if you get this glitch, you have to promote (which doesn't solve the problem for some from the posts on this forum) or respec (spending their own resources) or not use the character (which as a new character is kind of self defeating).

The problem is they got hit by the bug not because they were trying to exploit it but they are forced to choose one of the 3 allowed choices or face a possible ban. This is what the analogy i used is referring to

[cowwy]

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Daynan wrote...

This post... it just totally misses the point. We don't need cheaters and exploiters to achieve community goals, and I don't want to hide behind cover while the exploiters earn credits for me.

Adapt or leave, we don't need or want people who do sh** like this.

I agree but I would love to see a fix but I am more understanding now deep down the reason the patches are so far and few between is the amount of money that has to be paid to patch the game which ea hates spending money if they dont have to

It's not an issue of money, it's an issue of having the resources and the manpower to fix, and test the fixes to make sure they don't break anything else. Also from what I understand the certification processes from Microsoft and Sony are pretty ridiculous and time consuming as well.

Dont kid yourself bioware has the resources to fix it but ea isnt willing to shell out 40,000 for them to try until they get it right 

Look at Bryan Johnson's post. Hopefully that will enlighten you a little.

I didnt say they could get it right the first time it would take multiple attempts but I think it can be done but then again I dont know that for a fact

Well the thing is they got it partially right, but they didn't realize there was a different way to abuse the glitch, but as I stated, patching things takes time because they have to be properly tested and go through lengthy certification processes, they are 100% aware of the glitch, but now they have to find a way to fix it without breaking anything else, or implement that solution if they already have it.

[Ubergrog]

I would call the developers more apathetic then lazy. Who can blame them? they have been dealing with people screaming at them for every perceived slight. I know I got really upset a few times, and I still harbor some personal spite for some of their choices.

Needless to say, they don't have enough 'feels' for all of us, bro.

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Hmm we are lazy, interesting.

Serious question: How do we know if someone is abusing this glitch? It's not like we can see their specs in a match.

I would say search their tag in the N7 HQ and look at their classes. I think that's the only way for now until Bioware says otherwise.

[jpraelster93]

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Daynan wrote...

This post... it just totally misses the point. We don't need cheaters and exploiters to achieve community goals, and I don't want to hide behind cover while the exploiters earn credits for me.

Adapt or leave, we don't need or want people who do sh** like this.

I agree but I would love to see a fix but I am more understanding now deep down the reason the patches are so far and few between is the amount of money that has to be paid to patch the game which ea hates spending money if they dont have to

It's not an issue of money, it's an issue of having the resources and the manpower to fix, and test the fixes to make sure they don't break anything else. Also from what I understand the certification processes from Microsoft and Sony are pretty ridiculous and time consuming as well.

Dont kid yourself bioware has the resources to fix it but ea isnt willing to shell out 40,000 for them to try until they get it right 

Look at Bryan Johnson's post. Hopefully that will enlighten you a little.

I didnt say they could get it right the first time it would take multiple attempts but I think it can be done but then again I dont know that for a fact

Well the thing is they got it partially right, but they didn't realize there was a different way to abuse the glitch, but as I stated, patching things takes time because they have to be properly tested and go through lengthy certification processes, they are 100% aware of the glitch, but now they have to find a way to fix it without breaking anything else, or implement that solution if they already have it.

I know patching takes time but you have to know PART of the reason that it takes as long as it does is because they have to pay for the patches I refuse to believe that isnt somewhat of a factor

[calavash]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Geth Platforms wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Hmm we are lazy, interesting.

well you guys didnt fix ML glitch, change all charge gun, i think you mess up kyrase even more, because you cant double shoot it anymroe, before anyone say anything, bioware say it ok, and you guys only came out two patchs and some patchs bring new glitch,( unable to SS altas) and when is that getting fix? next patchs? in another 6 months? op have some point, other then that you guys are great

We did fix it, we fixed the original one.
Here is an example, you go to the doctor for a flu he gives you medicine to help you with that flu. 
In the meantime you catch another type of flu. From the outside the doctor did exactly what he was supposed to and help you get better for the original flu but from the outside looking in you still have the flu.


Now I don't mean to be rude have you ever tried to write software? It isn't easy.

Then there is this question,

How many programmers are on the team vs before launch?
How well do those programmers know the systems they now have to work on that they didnt before?
What are you even allowed to do in a patch?
What is the target audience affect?
How severe is the issue?

Yes from the outside looking in things may seem one way but there are a lot of questions that people don't think of that we have to consider and weigh.

This is one of the reason I have been so active as of late is to try and educate people what it is like working in the industry.

Im not a programmer but I got a good buddy that is and he "tried" to explain some of the stuff to me and yea you guys got alot on your plate and i respect your work I just wish other people would see it that way... If people exploit a bug its not your problem its theres for being less of a gamer to do things right and legit.  Again keep up the work BW.

side note: i do under stand that some issues are really bad and need addressing.  Thats what these forums are for so WE can address them to be fixed not flame the devs for a shotty job (which is not the case)

[Drayce333]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Hmm we are lazy, interesting.

This was already proven when you guys "fixed" ULM not changing power recast in the menu but didn't ACTUALLY FIX IT IN GAME FOR 5 MORE MONTHS.

[Mozts]

[Computron2000]

cowwy wrote...
I was referencing the missile glitch, but I see you are talking about the 6/6/6/6/6 glitch. Your analogy is also not quite correct either, because you are implying that it is unfixable. Obviously there is some grey area here but almost everyone who plays the game understands that they cannot get 6 points in every tree.

A more appropriate analogy would be if the player's were handed a bat that made their swings extra powerful. They could continue to use the obviously unfair bat, and risk being found out and kicked from their team, or they could play the game the way it was meant to be played.

Its fixable but the solution in terms of the analogy is this:

You can choose to
i) Change your bat for another bat but it might still be the same (promote)
ii) Pay to get someone to fix your bat (Respec card)
iii) Never use that new fangled bat again (don't use it)

[Bryan Johnson]

I do not believe we have taken a stance on the 6/6/6/6/6 glitch but I could be wrong. We are asking people to respec or promote. I am going to be talking to one of our teams on monday to see if we can take all those kits that are affected by this and return all the talent points to re-allocate. Having a 6/6/6/6/6 character will not get you an automatic ban, we realize it is a glitch and not an exploit (like the missile "glitch" is).

[Ubergrog]

Drayce333 wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Hmm we are lazy, interesting.

This was already proven when you guys "fixed" ULM not changing power recast in the menu but didn't ACTUALLY FIX IT IN GAME FOR 5 MORE MONTHS.

That is mostly due to EA and Bioware's policy on patches.  I don't happen to agree with them, but that is the way they chose it.  Lazy? no. Poor decision? yes.

[The Makr]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Ok I have a question for the OP, if baseball players are using steroids, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

This analogy is not correct. The correct one is as follows

If baseball players get forcefully injected with steroids in 1 in 10000 swings of the bat, and it is EXPLICITLY stated that using such performance enhancing drugs, even though they are available, will get you kicked out of the MLB, is it the MLB's fault?

The answer is yes.

Now in Bioware's defense, the entire ban threat is a time buying technique. They neeed time to fix it and if they can't patch it up through an update and require a patch, it will take even more time.

If they said, "We're sorry, if you get the glitch, until we fix it its fine because its our fault", every bad tom, dick and harry will exploit it because there are no negative consequences

I believe your analogy is incorrect because it removes the very thing we are discussing here and that is "choice". We arent banning people who come accross the thing accidentally we are banning those that viciously exploit it.

I appreciate your efforts to take the time and explain from your perspective.  I don't glitch and even promoted a character that wound up with 6 skill points in all categories, so now hw is back to normal.  People need to learn that a rule is a rule is a rule.  Devs said out of bounds, so play inside the lines.

[Computron2000]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

I do not believe we have taken a stance on the 6/6/6/6/6 glitch but I could be wrong. We are asking people to respec or promote. I am going to be talking to one of our teams on monday to see if we can take all those kits that are affected by this and return all the talent points to re-allocate. Having a 6/6/6/6/6 character will not get you an automatic ban, we realize it is a glitch and not an exploit (like the missile "glitch" is).

Thank you. That is the best solution i've heard. Kudos for that

[The Makr]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

I do not believe we have taken a stance on the 6/6/6/6/6 glitch but I could be wrong. We are asking people to respec or promote. I am going to be talking to one of our teams on monday to see if we can take all those kits that are affected by this and return all the talent points to re-allocate. Having a 6/6/6/6/6 character will not get you an automatic ban, we realize it is a glitch and not an exploit (like the missile "glitch" is).

Good call, because I had a Turian Ghost like this and was not in any way trying to make it happen.  I have promoted since then.

[genocidal villain]

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Daynan wrote...

This post... it just totally misses the point. We don't need cheaters and exploiters to achieve community goals, and I don't want to hide behind cover while the exploiters earn credits for me.

Adapt or leave, we don't need or want people who do sh** like this.

I agree but I would love to see a fix but I am more understanding now deep down the reason the patches are so far and few between is the amount of money that has to be paid to patch the game which ea hates spending money if they dont have to

It's not an issue of money, it's an issue of having the resources and the manpower to fix, and test the fixes to make sure they don't break anything else. Also from what I understand the certification processes from Microsoft and Sony are pretty ridiculous and time consuming as well.

Dont kid yourself bioware has the resources to fix it but ea isnt willing to shell out 40,000 for them to try until they get it right 

Look at Bryan Johnson's post. Hopefully that will enlighten you a little.

I didnt say they could get it right the first time it would take multiple attempts but I think it can be done but then again I dont know that for a fact

Well the thing is they got it partially right, but they didn't realize there was a different way to abuse the glitch, but as I stated, patching things takes time because they have to be properly tested and go through lengthy certification processes, they are 100% aware of the glitch, but now they have to find a way to fix it without breaking anything else, or implement that solution if they already have it.

I know patching takes time but you have to know PART of the reason that it takes as long as it does is because they have to pay for the patches I refuse to believe that isnt somewhat of a factor

I wouldn't say "buffing" guns is a way to patch the glitch because it's pretty obvious now every guns that needs to be charged is susceptible to being abusing the current missle glitch. It would be better to fix the actually glitch and fixing it instead of perma banning people and making the community smaller. I would say a temporary ban would be better or a warning.

[Azrael 007]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Geth Platforms wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Hmm we are lazy, interesting.

well you guys didnt fix ML glitch, change all charge gun, i think you mess up kyrase even more, because you cant double shoot it anymroe, before anyone say anything, bioware say it ok, and you guys only came out two patchs and some patchs bring new glitch,( unable to SS altas) and when is that getting fix? next patchs? in another 6 months? op have some point, other then that you guys are great

We did fix it, we fixed the original one.
Here is an example, you go to the doctor for a flu he gives you medicine to help you with that flu. 
In the meantime you catch another type of flu. From the outside the doctor did exactly what he was supposed to and help you get better for the original flu but from the outside looking in you still have the flu.


Now I don't mean to be rude have you ever tried to write software? It isn't easy.

Then there is this question,

How many programmers are on the team vs before launch?
How well do those programmers know the systems they now have to work on that they didnt before?
What are you even allowed to do in a patch?
What is the target audience affect?
How severe is the issue?

Yes from the outside looking in things may seem one way but there are a lot of questions that people don't think of that we have to consider and weigh.

This is one of the reason I have been so active as of late is to try and educate people what it is like working in the industry.

Woo Bioware Fires Back! I'm enjoying this thread more than I thought I would.