278 réponses à ce sujet

[Methenu]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Bryan, I don't mean to be rude, but you should probably remember that this is the internet, and most people aren't going to change their minds just because someone posts a rational, coherent set of reasons that they're wrong. The bull**** hate for the QA team isn't going to dissipate, even if it absolutely should.

Maybe NDA prohibits talking about this too, but how well do people comment out their coding and **** in the video game industry? It seems like for bugfixing, it'd be great to detail what a specific bit of code was doing, but comments can be really time consuming. With the deadlines you guys have to meet, is that something that often ends up falling by the wayside a bit? Are a lot of the problems unrelated to that, and more related to using a game engine designed around single-player for a multiplayer mode?

Just curious.

I am well aware, its not those people I am after, it is the rational ones I wish to give more knowledge to.

Comments are present in the code base, you also have to consider you are using someone elses technology. IE we use Unreal Engine 3, so we have to use code that Epic wrote. You also have many different styles of code that you can write, the industry isn't "mature" (programming) as there are universal standards. I mean look at coding standards the industry as a whole cant even comment on what is correct for capitalization. 

Sure some stuff is not as well documented as well as it could be, but once again this is universal.

Doesn't have to be industry wide, though, does it?  I mean, BioWare has been using the UE3 engine and SDK for ME, ME2 and ME3, I would assume that at least internally there has been an implementation of a "standard" or "best practices" methodology otherwise you'd be looking at chaos.  That way if you bring a new programmer/qa'er in you don't have to explain how you nested the if else statements or whathaveyou, you just have to give them an overview of the standards BW has instituted regarding the naming of variables, comments, etc to keep everything rolling smoothly.

Or am I totally off-base here?  

[Bryan Johnson]

Methenu wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Bryan, I don't mean to be rude, but you should probably remember that this is the internet, and most people aren't going to change their minds just because someone posts a rational, coherent set of reasons that they're wrong. The bull**** hate for the QA team isn't going to dissipate, even if it absolutely should.

Maybe NDA prohibits talking about this too, but how well do people comment out their coding and **** in the video game industry? It seems like for bugfixing, it'd be great to detail what a specific bit of code was doing, but comments can be really time consuming. With the deadlines you guys have to meet, is that something that often ends up falling by the wayside a bit? Are a lot of the problems unrelated to that, and more related to using a game engine designed around single-player for a multiplayer mode?

Just curious.

I am well aware, its not those people I am after, it is the rational ones I wish to give more knowledge to.

Comments are present in the code base, you also have to consider you are using someone elses technology. IE we use Unreal Engine 3, so we have to use code that Epic wrote. You also have many different styles of code that you can write, the industry isn't "mature" (programming) as there are universal standards. I mean look at coding standards the industry as a whole cant even comment on what is correct for capitalization. 

Sure some stuff is not as well documented as well as it could be, but once again this is universal.

Doesn't have to be industry wide, though, does it?  I mean, BioWare has been using the UE3 engine and SDK for ME, ME2 and ME3, I would assume that at least internally there has been an implementation of a "standard" or "best practices" methodology otherwise you'd be looking at chaos.  That way if you bring a new programmer/qa'er in you don't have to explain how you nested the if else statements or whathaveyou, you just have to give them an overview of the standards BW has instituted regarding the naming of variables, comments, etc to keep everything rolling smoothly.

Or am I totally off-base here?  

No I wasnt saying that we dont use "best practices". I was using the example that a coding standard not being agreed upon is an example of how immature the software development industry is.

[DJ Airsurfer]

Which glitches are bannable offenses, exactly? Seems unfair if a small glitch may get a player banned unknowingly.

[Killateral DMG]

 My stance is anyone who joins public games and ruins other people's games deserve a ban but people who do it on their with a friend will just be screwed when it is patched and be forced to play normally.

[bydoritos]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Which glitches are bannable offenses, exactly? Seems unfair if a small glitch may get a player banned unknowingly.

read this

Modifié par bydoritos, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:08 .

[landylan]

This is so stupid. The missile glitch is nothing like reload cancelling. It's like abusing tylenol or some serious prescription drugs. Using the missile glitch cheats Bioware out of money.

Bioware has fixed a lot of problems with the missile glitch already. It's not simple.

Your logic is that it's okay to cheat as long as you're cheating with a glitch and not hacking the game... Genius.

Since when was the main reason for them banning people because it's unfair???

Modifié par landylan, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:14 .

[DeathIsHere]

@Bryan: The idea that the 6/6/6/6/6 spec was a bannable offense came from the cheating compendium topic Ernest Tse had up. Here's the post in question:

http://social.biowar...450/15#14551717

A few people were wondering what's considered "exploiting" the 6/6/6/6/6 spec as it's hard to tell if somebody knew it was a glitch or not. Thankfully I haven't encountered this glitch (haven't unlocked any of the characters afflicted by it unfortunately) but it seems like a major issue if this is indeed a bannable offense. Nobody knows and it seems like it'd have to be patched to be fixed so that leaves a large amount of gray area for people to get banned without realizing they were breaking the rules.

[Dunvi]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

This is one of the reason I have been so active as of late is to try and educate people what it is like working in the industry.

I just wanted to comment and say that I really appreciate what you do here, especially in regards to this.

[Bryan Johnson]

DeathIsHere wrote...

@Bryan: The idea that the 6/6/6/6/6 spec was a bannable offense came from the cheating compendium topic Ernest Tse had up. Here's the post in question:

http://social.biowar...450/15#14551717

A few people were wondering what's considered "exploiting" the 6/6/6/6/6 spec as it's hard to tell if somebody knew it was a glitch or not. Thankfully I haven't encountered this glitch (haven't unlocked any of the characters afflicted by it unfortunately) but it seems like a major issue if this is indeed a bannable offense. Nobody knows and it seems like it'd have to be patched to be fixed so that leaves a large amount of gray area for people to get banned without realizing they were breaking the rules.

Thanks ill speak to Ernest on monday basically it is the same kind of deal as anything else if you are using it to your advantage a lot (ie you are exclusively playing that kit past what is resonable for you to fix it) then we consider it an exploit.

[xsdob]

Bryan Johnson, you are a true shining beacon on these dark forums.

I thank you so much for having the patients to come on here and talk with us, from the rational fans to the absurdly insane ones.

I don't think works can accurately describe how much of a breathtaking thing to have someone on the bioware team talk to us fans for more than just a few post before bailing.

Modifié par xsdob, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:20 .

[jerrmy12]

ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that....

[landylan]

jerrmy12 wrote...

ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that....

The store is fine. It gives out plenty of rare stuff when it's not maxed, and it keeps the "ultra-rares" ultra rare.

[Rip504]

Jiovanie- wrote...


BioWare doesn't release broken content; they relase content, to expect perfection is quite ludicrous. Nothing in this world is perfect, and this world will NEVER be perfect. The sooner you learn to apply that to everything in this world, the better. 

We the community asked for weekly patches; that's our fault. I would rather have monthly patches as opposed to weekly patches. The product doesn't have to advertise that there might be glitches or bugs within it. You as a person should have enough common sense to know that not everything is as it seems. 

I'm losing my faith in humanity everytime I visit the internet. It's a shame really.

Lol so am I. You are willing and accepting to pay for a product with multiple issues. Where does the threshold begin and end?
I am holding BW accountable for their actions.They released a product with multiple bugs/glitches. Fact. Nothing more. I fully understand it is a part of the product. You should not make ludicrous assumptions. I do construction. I am only allowed to be off by a tenth of an inch when laying a tile floor. There are multiple examples of perfect or near perfect products. My main question was is BW contempt with the quality of products they are releasing. Did I ever legally agree to bugs/glitches?

"I bought a controller from Best Buy. The right analog would stick a little,causing the product to not work properly or as intended. I then returned it to Best Buy to exchange it. They gave me no trouble. The new one I got is also broken. The light on the Play and charge does not work. I have returned the product and got another one. (Third) With No trouble. If I wanted my money back I would be able to get it back. Neither of these issue cause the controller to be unusable,but by definition both of these controllers are broken. As they do not function
in the way they are intended to. Proven by Best Buy willingness to fix my issue.

So while these problems barely effect anything,there is still an issue. A issue worthy of refunding my money or replacing my product. Fixing my issue. "

cowwy wrote...


Bryan might respond to this as well, but I would like to reiterate what he said earlier.

They fixed the original missile glitch.

People like you keep saying that they are not doing their job, and that they don't care about the game, and make every ridiculous claim, but the fact of the matter is that they are VERY OBVIOUSLY working on the issues.
They've stated multiple times that they are working on fixing these issues but they have to test them and go through certification processes that are both expensive and time consuming, so they try to get the most
bang for their buck, by releasing patches with more than just "Fixed an issue where players could use infinite missile launchers".

Also  take that legal argument to a court of law. Tell me how that goes for you. I don't claim to be a legal expert, but I'm pretty sure you've received the product that you've paid for.

No never once did I ever claim BW was not doing their job. BW does a very good job. That is your mistaken interpretation of what I said. I am asking was BW aware of the Missile Glitch before release? If not,why not?
If so, then BW was contempt to release a glitch/buggy product? We are suppose to accept that with open arms? Not me.

Really? Buggy DLC was advertised? I assume it was advertised as really "cool" content. Never did they tell me they were releasing a buggy product they may get some user's banned.

To the Baseball analogy. If the MLB placed the enhancements into the players lockers,then yes the MLB would also be held responsible. As BW has placed the Glitch within your character screen/stats game. People are not exploiting ways to create the glitch. They are exploiting a glitch that BW's product has placed within their game.
It is wrong and should be considered cheating by all means.

Modifié par Rip504, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:24 .

[DragonRacer]

jerrmy12 wrote...

ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that....

Dude, from Day 1 the store has been random. We all know this. Either accept it and play or move on.

Also, previous comment about killing yourself over a video game is in very bad taste. Very. Bad. Taste.

[cowwy]

jerrmy12 wrote...

ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that....

It's not "broke", it's just not the way you want it to work. Look, I understand that it's frustrating to not get the things you want, especially because I still don't have a Turian Ghost Infiltrator or an Asari Valkyrie, but there's no easy way to "fix" it.

Adding new packs for more specific things (like a weapons pack, a character pack, etc.) is probably the most likely, but that still requires tons of certification from Microsoft and Sony to get those approved for the store, I'm also assuming there's some overhead from EA in there as well, but I'm unsure about that.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

comrade8472 wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Geth Platforms wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

*snip*

As for writing software on a calculator, lets say now you have 1million lines of code and a system 200 people have worked on. You now have to write what you did to interface what someone else did, and lets say for one reason or another that person isn't available.
*snip*

ugh. this.   I've never worked on millions of lines of code.  heck the most i've done is AP comp sci with C++ doing a few hundred.  trying to find errors in your own code (a couple hundred lines tops in my case)  is a giant pain.
Everybody has a different style of code. I'm sure there are certain standards in the industry, certain standards at bioware.... but everybody does thigns different. the code just LOOKS different, feels different.   Code is all logic - it all boils down to boolean math, and there are more than one way to go about getting the same answer, doing the same "calculation".
so to debug someone ELSE'S code you not only have to debug code, you have to figure out how to think like they do in a way.

[xsdob]

jerrmy12 wrote...

ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that....

Wrong analogy, this is what it's more like.

"ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a lottery with a ton of runner up prizes to get a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that...."

That's what the store is, that's what it's always been.

Modifié par xsdob, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:27 .

[k1ngl1ves]

jerrmy12 wrote...

ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that....

Hey!  I love my Level IV's!!!  They might be the best thing to happen to this game!  Don't look down on something you obviously don't understand!  Level IV's changed the store for the better.  No doubt about it.  

[ErrorTagUnknown]

jerrmy12 wrote...

ok i saved up 1 hundread thou for a very nice car, i spent it all and what do i get? a crap, used car, with level 4 used tires, thats hows it broke, or 1 mil and get that....

or you might get a bugati (or however the heck you spell it)... a friggin steal at 100K... like 1/10th its value.

It's a random store.  that's the whole thing.   When you put 5 bucks on 6 in roulette, do you get mad at the casino when it comes up 12? nope.  that's how it's designed.... because if it had hit 6, it would have paid out 150$

[WildHog70]

A couple of thoughts to add.

Bioware has an interest in keeping the multiplayer community and PUG matchmaking enjoyable for everyone. A game with a missile glitcher is simply not fun, it's not what we want from the game (to play and have fun, to role-play being a hero). I don't understand why someone would cheat themselves out of fun game play to get monopoly money. Exploits ruin the multiplayer experience for everyone.

OP, if you got caught cutting in line at an amusement park and kicked out, would you blame the park for having a fence that's easy to jump over? They are justified in kicking you out because you are hurting other customers' experience.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

landylan wrote...

This is so stupid. The missile glitch is nothing like reload cancelling. It's like abusing tylenol or some serious prescription drugs. Using the missile glitch cheats Bioware out of money.

Bioware has fixed a lot of problems with the missile glitch already. It's not simple.

Your logic is that it's okay to cheat as long as you're cheating with a glitch and not hacking the game... Genius.

Since when was the main reason for them banning people because it's unfair???

your analogy isn't wrong....  it's the publics opinion of tylenol

hell.  tylenol is a damn toxic drug.  Honestly, if you're strung out on vicodin or percocet you're far more likely to die from the exposure to APAP (tylenol) than you are they hydro or oxy-codone.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

Killateral DMG wrote...

 My stance is anyone who joins public games and ruins other people's games deserve a ban but people who do it on their with a friend will just be screwed when it is patched and be forced to play normally.

this is my personal stance as well


also, i'll add - that if i entered a lobby and someone had the decency to say "hey i'm going to missile glitch"
i would have the decency to say "thanks for letting me know, i would have reported you if i didn't find out until we got in game"  and i would leave the lobby and leave them be.

[hudder92]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

@Bryan: The idea that the 6/6/6/6/6 spec was a bannable offense came from the cheating compendium topic Ernest Tse had up. Here's the post in question:

http://social.biowar...450/15#14551717

A few people were wondering what's considered "exploiting" the 6/6/6/6/6 spec as it's hard to tell if somebody knew it was a glitch or not. Thankfully I haven't encountered this glitch (haven't unlocked any of the characters afflicted by it unfortunately) but it seems like a major issue if this is indeed a bannable offense. Nobody knows and it seems like it'd have to be patched to be fixed so that leaves a large amount of gray area for people to get banned without realizing they were breaking the rules.

Thanks ill speak to Ernest on monday basically it is the same kind of deal as anything else if you are using it to your advantage a lot (ie you are exclusively playing that kit past what is resonable for you to fix it) then we consider it an exploit.

In my opinion in may be a glitch, but doesn't the user have to physically assign those points to make it 6/6/6/6/6? I was under the impression that the character had negative points which allowed you to assign the remaining points. So if someone did this. They should know what they are doing is in fact wrong. I don't see a problem with banning someone over it, if that is indeed how it works.