43 réponses à ce sujet

[sclera]

nah buddy.

[Clips7]

I can understand to a certain extent to what the OP is talking about. The weapons are given to provide balance....heavy damage, but low firing capability or low damage, but high firing capability or something in between along with weight distribution and cooldowns.

While the enemy you're fighting (take your pick) seems to not be affected by any of those factors...they just fire away and shoot, while you have to strategize how to attack them....BUT that is kinda the point of the overall package...to balance your character and mod him/her to the  best of your ability. Ultimately it feels better to be weaker than most aliens...because after all most humans when they encounter beings from outer space, the majority of the time they expect them to be stronger and more advanced than them.

So you get a sense of satisfaction in working with other weaker characters or aliens in taking down a more dominanat enemy in the Reapers,Geth, Collectors...etc.

Modifié par Clips7, 27 octobre 2012 - 02:57 .

[Eckswhyzed]

Sable Dove wrote...

Also, the problem is that there is absolutely no reason for a caster to not have 200% recharge speed. No weapon is worth the penalty except the Acolyte, and it can basically be taken by anyone with no penalty at all. 

I cannot emphasise how wrong I think this is. 200% recharge is overrated - unless you are capable of reacting to an enemy and firing a power within 0.1 seconds.

Take some decent weapons, roll with around 160%.

[DanielsMind]

do you like bananas?

[DullahansXMark]

Jiovanie- wrote...

Considering the M-97 Viper one-shotted any non-boss enemy with every headshot BEFORE I maxed it out, I'd say you're a bit wrong.

That's different. The M-97 Viper is a god among snipers.

[vonSlash]

Misterpinky0 wrote...
 If you're relying on a gun for damage as a casting class, rather than a backup, you're playing the entire game wrong. Simple as that.

So, when I spec my Phoenix Vanguard for weapon performance, and get better results with that build than I would have with a powers build for him or a weapons build on a different class, I'm still playing the entire game wrong?

And here I was, thinking that the point of the game wass to find a character build that both fits your playstyle and gets you acceptably good results. Good thing Misterpinky0 was here to teach me that the point of the game is actually to use traditional class builds and maximum efficiency playstyles with no consideration of the strengths and weaknesses of my gameplay abilities. If he hadn't been here, who knows how long I would have kept deluding myself? <_<

[Asebstos]

What uncommon gun were you using, the Locust?

Edit:
And somehow this experience with this one gun means that EVERY gun is too weak? Get real.

Modifié par Asebstos, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:08 .

[kmmd60]

I told you not to drink while playing the game OP.

Seriously, if you complain about powers can't kill fast enough then it's more sensible. Complaining about weapons not strong enough on BRONZE? Only the infamous Incisor is THAT bad.

Caster class with carnifex, play it.

[Mendelevosa]

Sable Dove wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Sable Dove wrote...
I was playing some bronze just to get some 'play x waves with y' challenges out of the way, and I realized  that the weapons are incredibly weak. 

Stopped reading right there and lost all credibility. I cannot take you serously if you going to complain about a weapon
being too weak in bronze. 

Oh and a caster with 200%+ cooldown does not need to fire a shot.

Well good thing you stopped right before the part where I said it wasn't too weak for bronze, and thus assuming that I said the opposite of what I actually did say. Nice work bolstering my faith in humanity.

Also, the problem is that there is absolutely no reason for a caster to not have 200% recharge speed. No weapon is worth the penalty except the Acolyte, and it can basically be taken by anyone with no penalty at all. 

The thing you need to realize is that casters are not meant to be weapon focused. Soldiers and Infiltrators are designed to deal the most damage with weapons, while Adepts deal the most damage with Biotics, and Engineers deal the most damage with tech, ect.. That's how it pretty much was ever since the first Mass Effect.

And I still don't see how you think new players will have such a hard time with the game. All they have to do is play bronze (which is easy no matter what equipment they have) and once they get better and get quality items, they can transfer to silver, then gold. And just about all the weapons (except for a few AR's and shotguns) are powerful enough for any character. It seems a bit unbelievable that a maxed uncommon weapon with good mods can't take out an average mook.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:18 .

[Sable Dove]

Julian Skies wrote...

Sable Dove, what weapon were you using?
What you are mentioning is very visible on 'large clip size' weapons, meant to fire a lot of times. For weapons with smaller clip sizes like sniper rifles and shotguns, you take as much as half a clip to a thing on Silver. (hear me, i'm a bronze player, sometimes go to silver)

That is also the reason, despite liking rapid-fire weapos for the style, I do not particularly like using them, I like to feel the damage I deal with every shot.

In this specific example, I was using the Tempest X (what I consider to be one of the stronger non-soldier SMGs (not including the Hurricane because that's not much of a competition) with HVB V and Heat Sink V. Granted, my class wasn't set up for weapons, but this is a max-level uncommon weapon, which is better than most uncommons, and some rares (looking at you, Geth PSMG), and it takes a reasonable amount of time to kill bronze mooks. 

And I kinda misspoke when I said a whole clip, because it's more an issue of how much time you spend firing, rather than how much ammo it takes.

Of course, before that, I was using the GPSMG, which is basically garbage in general.

Eckswhyzed wrote...
I cannot emphasise how wrong I think this is. 200% recharge is overrated - unless you are capable of reacting to an enemy and firing a power within 0.1 seconds.

Take some decent weapons, roll with around 160%. 

Any weapon that's woth its weight is going to cut down on my powers, and the difference between a 2s cooldown and a 2.2s cooldown is 10%, meaning I'm losing about 10% of my power DPS for a weapon that won't be able to keep up. Especially not if I have a combo-centric character - which is a lot of characters with the recent changes. 

[vonSlash]

kmmd60 wrote...

I told you not to drink while playing the game OP.

Seriously, if you complain about powers can't kill fast enough then it's more sensible. Complaining about weapons not strong enough on BRONZE? Only the infamous Incisor is THAT bad.

Caster class with carnifex, play it.

Quit giving this gun an even worse rap than it deserves.

In the short period between the last Incisor buff and the introduction of Dragoons & Bombers, the Incisor did very well on Gold Cerberus and Gold Geth, so long as you brought a backup weapon for the damage-sponge Atlases and Primes.

Even now, though, it's a viable Silver choice for any character specced for weapon performance.

[BleedingUranium]

Sable Dove wrote...

Julian Skies wrote...

Sable Dove, what weapon were you using?
What you are mentioning is very visible on 'large clip size' weapons, meant to fire a lot of times. For weapons with smaller clip sizes like sniper rifles and shotguns, you take as much as half a clip to a thing on Silver. (hear me, i'm a bronze player, sometimes go to silver)

That is also the reason, despite liking rapid-fire weapos for the style, I do not particularly like using them, I like to feel the damage I deal with every shot.

In this specific example, I was using the Tempest X (what I consider to be one of the stronger non-soldier SMGs (not including the Hurricane because that's not much of a competition) with HVB V and Heat Sink V. Granted, my class wasn't set up for weapons, but this is a max-level uncommon weapon, which is better than most uncommons, and some rares (looking at you, Geth PSMG), and it takes a reasonable amount of time to kill bronze mooks. 

And I kinda misspoke when I said a whole clip, because it's more an issue of how much time you spend firing, rather than how much ammo it takes.

Of course, before that, I was using the GPSMG, which is basically garbage in general.

Eckswhyzed wrote...
I cannot emphasise how wrong I think this is. 200% recharge is overrated - unless you are capable of reacting to an enemy and firing a power within 0.1 seconds.

Take some decent weapons, roll with around 160%. 

Any weapon that's woth its weight is going to cut down on my powers, and the difference between a 2s cooldown and a 2.2s cooldown is 10%, meaning I'm losing about 10% of my power DPS for a weapon that won't be able to keep up. Especially not if I have a combo-centric character - which is a lot of characters with the recent changes. 

Never ever use Heat Sink without Mag Upgrade.

[Eckswhyzed]

@Sable

Viper, Carnifex, Paladin, Mattock, Wraith, Raptor, Mantis, Phalanx, Piranha, Reegar, Talon, Falcon?

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:46 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

Agreed. Most of the weapons are crap. The main problem is the lack of proper ammo powers.

[palmof40sorrows]

QseftJohn wrote...

And I though I was doing quite well with my mattock 10 on my reave spamming justicar on gold

Man, I LOVE the Mattock on the Justicar. Doing just that, spamming Reave! So good. On topic, yeahhhh, I guess? I mean, I think everyone missed his point, being that if a weapon is too weak for Bronze it, oh nevermind. MATTOCK AND REAVE FO' EVA!

[kmmd60]

vonSlash wrote...

kmmd60 wrote...

I told you not to drink while playing the game OP.

Seriously, if you complain about powers can't kill fast enough then it's more sensible. Complaining about weapons not strong enough on BRONZE? Only the infamous Incisor is THAT bad.

Caster class with carnifex, play it.

Quit giving this gun an even worse rap than it deserves.

In the short period between the last Incisor buff and the introduction of Dragoons & Bombers, the Incisor did very well on Gold Cerberus and Gold Geth, so long as you brought a backup weapon for the damage-sponge Atlases and Primes.

Even now, though, it's a viable Silver choice for any character specced for weapon performance.

Did BW change recoil? I didn't see that in balance change.

[Sable Dove]

BleedingUranium wrote...
Never ever use Heat Sink without Mag Upgrade.

Care to explain why?
Taking both on anything but the Collector SMG is pointless. I don't even need that many bullets. What weapon needs basically +225% magazine size?

(Base is 1.00, with EM is 1.80;
1.80 * 0.45 = 0.81  --> new size is 2.61
But the heat sink works for all shots, including the ones that were not fired; therefore:
0.81 * 0.45 = 0.36
0.36 * 0.45 = 0.16
0.16 * 0.45 = 0.07
0.07 * 0.45 = 0.03
0.03 * 0.45 = 0.01
0.01 * 0.45 = 0.01 (some values were rounded, obviously) 

1.80 + 0.81 + 0.36 + 0.16 + 0.07 + 0.03 + 0.01 +0.01 = 3.25)

For reference, HS on its own works out to approximately 65% increased mag size.

Eckswhyzed wrote...

@Sable

Viper, Carnifex, Paladin, Mattock, Wraith, Raptor, Mantis, Phalanx, Piranha, Reegar, Talon, Falcon?

Viper is great; I'll give you that. But on a caster class, the only other one there I'd say is worth its weight in the Falcon, because being able to pin enemies down is so useful to a caster. The others on your list I find either too heavy to be useful on a caster (weapon dps doesn't make up for lost power DPS), or pretty much give you +200% recharge speed anyways.

EDIT: and the Talon, but it's an Ultra Rare; most wouldn't have it high-level, if they have it at all.

Remember, the issue here is that there's no reason for a caster to take a moderately heavy weapon and be a combat caster; if the weapon gives them +200% cooldown anyways, then it's not going to be used very often for all of the power spamming they'll be doing.

I mean, yes, Biotics are cool, but why can't we have a rounded combat class (no Volus Soldier jokes, please) that uses biotics to augment their damage output, rather than relying almost entirely on biotics. I'm sure not every Biotic is a Jack; why can't we play as just regular biotic Joe? 

Got some Biotics? Great. Not super powerful? Here's a gun. I'm not saying they should compete with Soldiers or Infiltrators, but base weapons should be able to at least kill Gold and Silver Mooks in just a couple seconds. Most of the people who say the guns are fine when they play weapon-based classes, that's because you're taking the base weapon damage, adding all your bonuses and mods, then multiplying it all by somewhere between 1.5 and 2 times. 

The weapon classes do well with weapons because they get absurdly large buffs to any weapon; that doesn't make the weapon good. Plus, any Infiltrator can basically ignore weapon weight, and so can about a fifth of the soldiers, and the cooldowns of Marksman and Adrenaline Rush have been reduced to the point that they can easily be used with heavier weapons. As well, with the exception of the Turian, all soldiers have at least one passive/grenade skill that isn't affected at all by weapon weight.

Modifié par Sable Dove, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:12 .